Comic Book Movies (and TV Shows)

[the jambo-rocker]

I've now watched it twice. I'm not sorry at all.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

Saw the Avengers, pretty decent film and it didn't try too hard in terms of plot or surprises. Everything was straight forward, although The Hulk thing did bother me. He was billed as an uncontrollable beast but at the end he is intentionally saving another hero. If you are looking for an all out action movie with little let up then Avengers is the baws. There is no boring moral dilemmas or real character arcs, there is plenty of fights and one liners. If anything the finale seemed rather tame and there wasn't a grand finish and very reminiscent of The Phantom Menace which isn't a good thing.

[forehead7]

It was the mid-credits scene. I haven't seen if there is one at the end or not but I'm staying until the end this time to make damn sure.

The Ice weapon? Didn't see one, as I was trying to figure out who he was

You notice it there and perhaps in the credits, but it's relevancy is futile.

Nah it's

A weapon called the Infinity Gauntlet. It requires 5 infinity gems and when you put the gems in the gauntlet it becomes power. In the comics, Iron Man, Reed Richards(mr fantastic), Professor Xavier, Namor(King of Atlantis), Black Panther(King of Wakanda (fictional rich, African national)), Blackbolt(king of the Inhumans who live on the moon) and Dr Strange(magic man) formed a group called the Illuminati and after Namor and Black Panther left through disgust(that group were actually involved in shooting the hulk into space) then they each took one gem and hid it.

I'd love to see them in the next Avengers film.

There is no boring moral dilemmas or real character arcs,

I dunno. I think you get enough. Iron Man, Thor, Cap and Hulk(and Loki) have all had their's already. Black Widow and Hawkeye got decent amount considering they're pretty small fry compared to the others.

As a follow on from the Hulk discussion;

I know what stemjsim is saying and I agree that that's what's happened but it shouldn't happen. I don't wanna be the comic book fan that cries about every little thing but in one of the stories he tears through New York City and wrecks it and Iron Man, Mr Fantastic, Xavier and Dr Strange all agree to shoot him up into space. He shouldn't be able to control the Hulk. It's a completely different side to him and it's fueled by rage. He actually gets stronger, the more angry he gets. That's why they unleash him if they're desperate.

All this talk makes me want to see it again!

[xbl]

As a follow on from the Hulk discussion;

I know what stemjsim is saying and I agree that that's what's happened but it shouldn't happen. I don't wanna be the comic book fan that cries about every little thing but in one of the stories he tears through New York City and wrecks it and Iron Man, Mr Fantastic, Xavier and Dr Strange all agree to shoot him up into space. He shouldn't be able to control the Hulk. It's a completely different side to him and it's fueled by rage. He actually gets stronger, the more angry he gets. That's why they unleash him if they're desperate.

Yep. You take away the rage, and you don't have a Hulk in my view. I love the Hulk, this shouldn't happen.

I'm just watching Hulk again now actually, for me, it genuinely gets better each time I watch it. I don't understand why people were so negative about it. The sad thing is, the sort of people who I think would really love this film wouldn't ever watch it because of their predetermined notions of superhero films. Jennifer Connolly has the most beautiful eyes, Eric Bana is such a perfectly closeted in suppressed Bruce Banner, the characters are developed so well, the sound and music are perfectly judged, I'd forgotten just how much I loved the film.

[Mr. Brightside]

I FUCKING LOVED THAT!

Hulk was fucking amazing, tearing shit up.

Also, I don't agree with the guy who said Hulk wasn't right, the only bit I didn't like was the formation bit, everything else was good. When he saved Iron Man it was because Banner and Stark have a good relationship, Hulk isn't all beast now, Banner was saying throughout the whole film he was getting it more and more under control, to the point where he now recognises sides, I think the battle with Thor was the line. Also, fucking excellent when he wasted Loki! Also it was great when Cap said "Hulk....Smash.*massive grin*" then goes on the rampage. Oh and when they big monstery thing crashed into Grand Central with Thor and Hulk and Hulk punched him!

I still think Hulk is strong, very strong, and not technically under control, he never looked "intelligent" or tamed tbh (except for the stupid team photos)

Edited April 27, 2012 by Mr. Brightside

[stemjsim]

The thing with the Hulk in the comics is that he has been presented in many different ways including those in which he has a measure of control; Joe Fixit being one version, World War Hulk is another; set after he is relocated from earth. It does vary somewhat with the writers so it doesn't bother me too much, in a way I'm glad they didnt go the full Ultimates route with the Avengers because that would have been pretty boring imho.

[Mr. Brightside]

Also, xbl, Hulk was terrible.

The Incredible Hulk was much, much better.

[xbl]

Also, xbl, Hulk was terrible.

The Incredible Hulk was much, much better.

Rubbish. As you can probably tell by my postings, I loved Hulk. An all time classic imo. The Incredible Hulk was just an enjoyable smashathon, same as the Avengers. Bog standard superhero fare, whereas Hulk was something special. A proper emotional journey.

As I said, I enjoyed the Avengers, and I thought Hulk was the best thing about it. But at the same time I hated what they did with him.

Edited to add, when it comes to the Hulk, I'm on a mission to the world to have it recognised as the classic it is!

Edited April 27, 2012 by xbl

[Mr. Brightside]

Do you only watch it when you're on your period or something man?! It is genuinely terrible. It's so boring, so very very boring. I felt it was quite stilted, action scenes were actually too long tbh and lacked context. Anyway, I digress.

THE AVENGERS!

[Mr. Brightside]

And! And! And! The Hulk was affected by love in that film you love, that's a bit of control tbh and friendships can be the same.

[forehead7]

The thing with the Hulk in the comics is that he has been presented in many different ways including those in which he has a measure of control; Joe Fixit being one version, World War Hulk is another; set after he is relocated from earth. It does vary somewhat with the writers so it doesn't bother me too much, in a way I'm glad they didnt go the full Ultimates route with the Avengers because that would have been pretty boring imho.

World War Hulk is entirely different though. He was constantly in Hulk form because he was angry all the time, he couldn't forget about being shot into space because he was always reminded by being in a different world. He was always fighting in Sakaar as well which makes him angrier and thus keeping him in Hulk form.

I don't like the idea that he can control it. I don't mind the fact that in New York he didn't attack any of the Avengers because he only attacks what is attacking him(Thor, the pilot in the aircraft, the aliens, Loki etc) but to actually take orders from Cap(the smash line) and to save Iron Man is taking it too far IMO.

It doesn't matter that Banner had a relationship with Stark. Hulk and Banner are two completely different people. And Banner's friends are not automatically Hulk's friends.

I also thought Ruffalo isn't quite nerdy enough for Banner. He needs to be scrawnier as well IMO.

[stemjsim]

I have to agree with xbl on the Hulk being a good movie though (It does have some issues but overall a good movie)

[Mr. Brightside]

I think it is because Banner realised that Hulk isn't all bad, that he saved him and accepted it more and perhaps that is why Hulk was a bit calmer.

[xbl]

Do you only watch it when you're on your period or something man?! It is genuinely terrible. It's so boring, so very very boring. I felt it was quite stilted, action scenes were actually too long tbh and lacked context. Anyway, I digress.

THE AVENGERS!

Look at it this way, its a superhero story on one level, but there are so many other levels to it. Firstly, are any of the characters fundamentally bad? Is there a clear bad guy? General Ross just wants the Hulk to be controlled and out of the way. He is the "bad guy", but he isn't interested in world conquest, he doesn't have a vandetta, or anything like that, he is just doing what he thinks best. Same with Betty. She wants what is best, but she's torn between the men dominating her life. She doesn't mean to have Banner locked away when she calls the military in. Talbot is a bad guy, but he's just interested in making money. He doesn't want to dominate or oppress anyone. David Banner too....he's probably the closest to a bad guy, but even then, he's multidimensional and complex.

So we have a superhero film with no real proper bad guys, and where the key story isn't really the hero learning how to use his power "great power, great responsibility etc". Its a father son story in a lot of ways, but its also an action movie, and the way it switches between the space and fury of the action scenes, and the incredibly tight, restrained Bruce Banner scenes tells a story in itself. I could go on for a long, long time about it. I can't possibly see how it could be boring, there is so much depth to it!

And! And! And! The Hulk was affected by love in that film you love, that's a bit of control tbh and friendships can be the same.

What I am about to say is going to sound horrifically gay, and I apologise in advance for that, but that isn't proper control. Love is such a fundamental emotion that speaks so deep. Friendship makes him pause because he can remember that, but it doesn't make him change back. Seeing his favourite tv show wouldn't change him back, it takes one of the deepest emotions that it is possible to feel to counter the rage and bring Banner back from where he is, lost deep within rage. When you take that element away, he isn't the Hulk any more!

[Mr. Brightside]

Look at it this way, its a superhero story on one level, but there are so many other levels to it. Firstly, are any of the characters fundamentally bad? Is there a clear bad guy? General Ross just wants the Hulk to be controlled and out of the way. He is the "bad guy", but he isn't interested in world conquest, he doesn't have a vandetta, or anything like that, he is just doing what he thinks best. Same with Betty. She wants what is best, but she's torn between the men dominating her life. She doesn't mean to have Banner locked away when she calls the military in. Talbot is a bad guy, but he's just interested in making money. He doesn't want to dominate or oppress anyone. David Banner too....he's probably the closest to a bad guy, but even then, he's multidimensional and complex.

So we have a superhero film with no real proper bad guys, and where the key story isn't really the hero learning how to use his power "great power, great responsibility etc". Its a father son story in a lot of ways, but its also an action movie, and the way it switches between the space and fury of the action scenes, and the incredibly tight, restrained Bruce Banner scenes tells a story in itself. I could go on for a long, long time about it. I can't possibly see how it could be boring, there is so much depth to it!

What I am about to say is going to sound horrifically gay, and I apologise in advance for that, but that isn't proper control. Love is such a fundamental emotion that speaks so deep. Friendship makes him pause because he can remember that, but it doesn't make him change back. Seeing his favourite tv show wouldn't change him back, it takes one of the deepest emotions that it is possible to feel to counter the rage and bring Banner back from where he is, lost deep within rage. When you take that element away, he isn't the Hulk any more!

You're right, none of them are bad, but they're all under-developed IMO. Bana is good as Banner that's about it. Other than Connelly being gorgeous. I understand the point of Ross and that, but I preferred the reboot with Tim Roth, an actual bad guy who was meant to be good, because they were still trying to control Hulk, but Roth took it too far.

Yeah I get that, but that's why it makes sense that he'd save Iron Man because of a friendship, but he didn't change when he thought he was dead, he woke him up by shouting, so it doesn't go that step further. Also why he recognises Cap as a friendly and basically Cap only tells him what Hulk would/could do anyway, if he said flank those guys and jump them from behind, Hulk would be like WTF? I also think the fact that Banner is seemingly beginning to accept Hulk in Avengers, then Hulk doesn't have to fight with himself and be conflicted. It means Banner can be Banner, Hulk can be Hulk, something we haven't seen because he (Banner) has always been fighting it. I mean lets be honest, Hulk isn't smart, so taking one conflict out can let in something else aka knowing those on your side and saving one of them (who is kinda your friend.)

Also, I thought the whole father/son thing was boring as fuck, he just appears after 20-odd years in the wilderness, nah not for me, just cause he wanted a piece of the pie.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Mr. Brightside

[xbl]

I'd spoiler that post for those that haven't seen it yet!

You're right, none of them are bad, but they're all under-developed IMO. Bana is good as Banner that's about it. Other than Connelly being gorgeous. I understand the point of Ross and that, but I preferred the reboot with Tim Roth, an actual bad guy who was meant to be good, because they were still trying to control Hulk, but Roth took it too far.

Yeah I get that, but that's why it makes sense that he'd save Iron Man because of a friendship, but he didn't change when he thought he was dead, he woke him up by shouting, so it doesn't go that step further. Also why he recognises Cap as a friendly and basically Cap only tells him what Hulk would/could do anyway, if he said flank those guys and jump them from behind, Hulk would be like WTF? I also think the fact that Banner is seemingly beginning to accept Hulk in Avengers, then Hulk doesn't have to fight with himself and be conflicted. It means Banner can be Banner, Hulk can be Hulk, something we haven't seen because he (Banner) has always been fighting it. I mean lets be honest, Hulk isn't smart, so taking one conflict out can let in something else aka knowing those on your side and saving one of them (who is kinda your friend.)

Also, I thought the whole father/son thing was boring as f**k, he just appears after 20-odd years in the wilderness, nah not for me, just cause he wanted a piece of the pie.

I agree they could possibly do with a little bit more development, but to be honest, the film is long enough! I can appreciate you preferring the reboot, I guess I'm biased because I genuinely fell in love with that film, and I also enjoyed the reboot, but I think Hulk is elevated to another level. I really liked the father son story, particularly the way it ended with Banner finally finding a measure of peace.

On your second paragraph, you make a good point about control tbh, well argued! I hadn't really thought about it that way, I guess it comes down to degrees of control and preference. I can see your point, but I think it goes a bit too far. I don't want to see the under control Hulk, thats not the version that I love! As I said though, you argue your point well, and I can totally see where you're coming from. Maybe my criticism was a bit over the top, I mean I still really enjoyed the film! I might have to watch it again...

[Mr. Brightside]

I'd spoiler that post for those that haven't seen it yet!

I agree they could possibly do with a little bit more development, but to be honest, the film is long enough! I can appreciate you preferring the reboot, I guess I'm biased because I genuinely fell in love with that film, and I also enjoyed the reboot, but I think Hulk is elevated to another level. I really liked the father son story, particularly the way it ended with Banner finally finding a measure of peace.

On your second paragraph, you make a good point about control tbh, well argued! I hadn't really thought about it that way, I guess it comes down to degrees of control and preference. I can see your point, but I think it goes a bit too far. I don't want to see the under control Hulk, thats not the version that I love! As I said though, you argue your point well, and I can totally see where you're coming from. Maybe my criticism was a bit over the top, I mean I still really enjoyed the film! I might have to watch it again...

Fair enough mate, I know that feeling my two favourite films are hardly the best films made (Remember The Titans and Forgetting Sarah Marshall) but I just love them for some reason. Perhaps I should give Hulk another watch, it's been about 4 or 5 years since I seen it.

I only seen it about three hours ago and want to see it again! I'm pleased it lived up to the hype.

Also, in the next one, if Hulk is calmed down any more, that would be too far. IMO it is at a perfect balance just now.

[KnightswoodBear]

Went to the late showing at Braehead last night and it's just awesome. Best of all the Marvel films yet. Everyone had a part to play and it thankfully wasn't just Tony Stark and Chums.

For me the Hulk absolutely steals the film, but....

I do slightly agree about him suddenly being in control of himself and fighting with the Avengers at the end is a bit out of character. I assume that when Banner says that "he's always angry" and changes into the other guy we're supposed to believe that he's always bubbling away underneath and it's only when he doesn't choose to change that he goes absolutely batshit mental and can't control him. Doesn't really fit with the character as he's been, but I suppose a 20 minute segment of getting the Hulk on their side wouldn't have meant other cool stuff being left out.

Anyway, fantastic film.

Edited April 28, 2012 by KnightswoodBear

[DA Baracus]

Haven't seen the film yet, but in Ultimate Avengers didn't Banner develop the super-soldier serum (the stuff that made Steve Rogers into Captain America) to have some sort of calming effect on the Hulk, allowing him to have a measure of control over the Hulk? Of course it didn't work out in the end, as the Hulk went mental as usual, but it was effective for a time.

[capo]

It's got an 8.9 on IMDB at the minute. Is it really as good as that? I remember Toy Story 3 had some sort of nonsense rating like that when it came out.