Jordan Rhodes

[Lex]

Complete non-sequitur.

I doubt you'd be in the majority view on that second point, so it very much is a debate. Albeit a particularly pointless one, but this is the internet after all. Seth Johnson got an England cap. Gavin McCann got an England cap. I'd suggest Barry Ferguson's a better player than Gareth Barry as well.

This is a wind up, right?

[Mr. Brightside]

Correct. Barry Ferguson was a horrible footballer who was punted by Blackburn because he wasn't good enough. In his early 30's, a supposed prime for players of his style, he couldn't even get a game for Blackpool for goodness sake.

Christ you're as bad as that Villa moron. Barry Ferguson left Blackburn after handing in a written transfer request, he wanted to leave.

And what are you even talking about getting a game for Blackpool?

[Bully Wee Villa]

Well, maybe he'd have got a cap or two, in friendlies. He's nowhere near as good as Gareth Barry or Scott Parker.

Again, in my opinion. Not sure how I can convince you to change your mind.

[Mr. Brightside]

Well, maybe he'd have got a cap or two, in friendlies. He's nowhere near as good as Gareth Barry or Scott Parker.

Again, in my opinion. Not sure how I can convince you to change your mind.

You can't, because you are wrong.

[Lex]

Christ you're as bad as that Villa moron. Barry Ferguson left Blackburn after handing in a written transfer request, he wanted to leave.

And what are you even talking about getting a game for Blackpool?

He left Blackburn because he wasn't good enough and missed his easy life at Rangers. He wasn't getting a game with Blackpool, this is why he was loaned to League 2 Fleetwood Town.

Better than Parker and Barry yeah? Yeah, i can see them playing in League 2 next season. Jeez, i despair.

[NorthAyrshireKillie]

He left Blackburn because he wasn't good enough and missed his easy life at Rangers. He wasn't getting a game with Blackpool, this is why he was loaned to League 2 Fleetwood Town.

Better than Parker and Barry yeah? Yeah, i can see them playing in League 2 next season. Jeez, i despair.

To be fair, Holloway didn't want him to leave and this was one of the contributing factors in him falling out with the chairman at Blackpool and then him leaving

[Mr. Brightside]

He left Blackburn because he wasn't good enough and missed his easy life at Rangers. He wasn't getting a game with Blackpool, this is why he was loaned to League 2 Fleetwood Town.

Better than Parker and Barry yeah? Yeah, i can see them playing in League 2 next season. Jeez, i despair.

Wrong, check your facts. After his injury he came straight back into the team and played most games, he wanted to go back to Rangers. So are you forgetting the season before when he played nearly every game, and no he wasn't loaned to Fleetwood because he wasn't good enough, hence why Paul Ince recalled him straight away.

Had Barry Ferguson been English, he would be in the squad ahead of Gareth Barry and Scott Parker.

[Gordopolis]

So you're saying every single player who is currently playing in the Championship maybe good enough for the EPL? It's unsubstantiated to say they aren't? .... Seriously?

Jesus wept - I posted the definition and everything. You have absolutely no evidence to justify your assertions. Until Rhodes plays in the EPL, all you can do is speculate. That is my point.

I think Rhodes is at an important juncture in his career. He could turn out to be a good, solid Championship goal-getter (20-30 goals a season), or, with the right move, he could be a real threat in the EPL. I don't think he's ever going to be in the Gomez, Suarez, Van Persie, Rooney category, but I think he could be a solid goal threat mid-table EPL striker. Steven Fletcher struggles to make that category. Before that you have to look back to Kevin Gallacher probably.

He has shown already he can lead Scotland's forward line. Sure, he had a shiter vs Serbia, so did all the others. What is your problem with this chap pushing on as far as he can?

[Savage Henry]

Wrong, check your facts. After his injury he came straight back into the team and played most games, he wanted to go back to Rangers. So are you forgetting the season before when he played nearly every game, and no he wasn't loaned to Fleetwood because he wasn't good enough, hence why Paul Ince recalled him straight away.

Had Barry Ferguson been English, he would be in the squad ahead of Gareth Barry and Scott Parker.

Indeed. Barry Ferguson played very well for Blackburn. He may well never have wanted to be there in the first place (remember Rangers must have been an absolute clusterfuck around about that time) but he certainly wasn't found out. Clearly Barry and Parker are younger and playing at a higher level now, but if Barry Ferguson was English he would have had more caps than the latter and possibly as many as the former.

Oh, and as an afterthought, Johnjo Shelvey has played for England.

[Lex]

Wrong, check your facts. After his injury he came straight back into the team and played most games, he wanted to go back to Rangers. So are you forgetting the season before when he played nearly every game, and no he wasn't loaned to Fleetwood because he wasn't good enough, hence why Paul Ince recalled him straight away.

Had Barry Ferguson been English, he would be in the squad ahead of Gareth Barry and Scott Parker.

I'm genuinely not sure if you're serious, but i'll respond as if you are.

He wasn't good enough to compete with the best midfielders in the Premier League, that's why he came back to Rangers. Why Fleetwood then? If he is good enough to be in the England team ( , pardon me, i had to laugh at that ) why weren't EPL clubs or other Championship clubs falling over themselves to snap him up?

Why, when Birmingham were relegated, did no EPL team want him? If he was good enough to be in the England team, they'd all have wanted him! Were the scouts and the managers of every top English club wrong about him?

Parker went to Chelsea and Spurs, Barry went to Man City. Ferguson... Went to Fleetwood. I genuinely cannot believe i'm debating this point, please tell me you're on the wind up?

[Lex]

Jesus wept - I posted the definition and everything. You have absolutely no evidence to justify your assertions. Until Rhodes plays in the EPL, all you can do is speculate. That is my point.

It's a yes or no question. Is saying every Championship player who has not played in the EPL is not good enough for the EPL unsubstantiated?

I think Rhodes is at an important juncture in his career. He could turn out to be a good, solid Championship goal-getter (20-30 goals a season), or, with the right move, he could be a real threat in the EPL. I don't think he's ever going to be in the Gomez, Suarez, Van Persie, Rooney category, but I think he could be a solid goal threat mid-table EPL striker. Steven Fletcher struggles to make that category. Before that you have to look back to Kevin Gallacher probably.

I'm glad you admit he'll never be a world class striker, some sanity on this lad at last. What about the level below that? Do you think he'll ever play Champions League? He is a solid Championship goal getter already, as is Mackail-Smith and George Boyd. The point is that international level and Championship level is a whole different ball game. If we are going to make major finals we need players playing in the Champions League, not the Championship.

I don't know where you're getting Steven Fletcher is struggling to be a goal threat for a mid table EPL side from. He's already a proven goal scorer in the league. This season he's scored as many EPL goals as Defoe, Aguero, Sturridge and Tevez, despite missing the whole last quarter of the season and playing with Sunderland.

He's a far better player than Rhodes will ever be, it's no coincidence that Fletcher was already playing and scoring in the EPL by the time he was the age Jordan is now. He's far more likely to end up playing in the Champions League than Rhodes.

Indeed, all going well, i expect Rhodes and Griffiths to spend the majority of their Scotland careers as Fletchers back up. I can't see two of the three ever playing together, unless Griffiths is played out wide, but they will be able enough deputies.

He has shown already he can lead Scotland's forward line. Sure, he had a shiter vs Serbia, so did all the others. What is your problem with this chap pushing on as far as he can?

Why would i have a problem with the lad pushing on as far as he can? I hope he does. My point is simple, he's not that good. Anyone who thinks he will spear head an attack which is capable of reaching a World Cup or Euro Championship is frankly deluded.

[Mr. Brightside]

I'm genuinely not sure if you're serious, but i'll respond as if you are.

He wasn't good enough to compete with the best midfielders in the Premier League, that's why he came back to Rangers. Why Fleetwood then? If he is good enough to be in the England team ( , pardon me, i had to laugh at that ) why weren't EPL clubs or other Championship clubs falling over themselves to snap him up?

Why, when Birmingham were relegated, did no EPL team want him? If he was good enough to be in the England team, they'd all have wanted him! Were the scouts and the managers of every top English club wrong about him?

Parker went to Chelsea and Spurs, Barry went to Man City. Ferguson... Went to Fleetwood. I genuinely cannot believe i'm debating this point, please tell me you're on the wind up?

Age. He spent his best years at Rangers, which is fair enough he most have had loads of money, playing for the team he supported and with his friends and family.

He's now 35, so it's hardly unsurprising that he's not playing at the very top and when Birmingham got relegated he must have been what 33?

You seem like one of those typical idiots who is unwilling to praise a Scot, your points about Rhodes are bizarre as well, I'm surprised you like Darren Fletcher.

[Bully Wee Villa]

Funny that even the most deluded Birmingham fan, even with all their utter hatred for us, has never attempted to pretend to me that Barry Average Ferguson is/was better than Gareth Barry. He's not better than former Player of the Year Scot Parker either. The mere suggestion is the height of insanity.

[Gordopolis]

It's a yes or no question. Is saying every Championship player who has not played in the EPL is not good enough for the EPL unsubstantiated?

It's clearly not a yes or no question. It's myriad shades of grey. If you don't see that, we're all wasting our time trying to educate you.

You've made a littany of assertions that you have nothing to back up other than speculation. Do you really think speculation = substance? There's a yes or no question for you.

[Lex]

Age. He spent his best years at Rangers, which is fair enough he most have had loads of money, playing for the team he supported and with his friends and family.

He's now 35, so it's hardly unsurprising that he's not playing at the very top and when Birmingham got relegated he must have been what 33?

You seem like one of those typical idiots who is unwilling to praise a Scot, your points about Rhodes are bizarre as well, I'm surprised you like Darren Fletcher.

So the reason he never played for any of the top clubs was age? When Birmingham signed Barry Ferguson he was 31. When Scott Parker signed for Tottenham he was... 31.

With your point now in tatters it's no surprise to see you lose the rag and resort to unsubstantiated personal abuse. Shame. I've praised plenty of Scots, Darren Fletcher and Steven Fletcher in this thread alone. Perhaps this objective way of viewing players is one you should try yourself.

Funny that even the most deluded Birmingham fan, even with all their utter hatred for us, has never attempted to pretend to me that Barry Average Ferguson is/was better than Gareth Barry. He's not better than former Player of the Year Scot Parker either. The mere suggestion is the height of insanity.

Good points. It's nice to see some members of the tartan army understand football.

It's clearly not a yes or no question. It's myriad shades of grey. If you don't see that, we're all wasting our time trying to educate you.

You've made a littany of assertions that you have nothing to back up other than speculation. Do you really think speculation = substance? There's a yes or no question for you.

This is such swerve of a question and subsequent word salad i don't know where to begin. I assert that most players who have failed to play at the top level by their 23rd birthday will never be good enough to play their.

Do you want figures? Percentage of Championship players who have not played in the EPL or equivalent level by their 23rd birthday and go on to sucede at that level or an equivalent level later in their career. I'd wager it would be less than 5%, perhaps even less than 1%

That's substantive evidence which states that Jordan Rhodes will probably never be good enough. There is exceptions to every rule of course, and he may be one of them. The same as some 25 year old striker playing in League 2 just now may be the next Grant Holt, possible, but unlikely.

[Gordopolis]

his is such swerve of a question and subsequent word salad i don't know where to begin. I assert that most players who have failed to play at the top level by their 23rd birthday will never be good enough to play their.

Do you want figures? Percentage of Championship players who have not played in the EPL or equivalent level by their 23rd birthday and go on to sucede at that level or an equivalent level later in their career. I'd wager it would be less than 5%, perhaps even less than 1%

That's substantive evidence which states that Jordan Rhodes will probably never be good enough. There is exceptions to every rule of course, and he may be one of them. The same as some 25 year old striker playing in League 2 just now may be the next Grant Holt, possible, but unlikely.

You'd wager? Good to see guesswork is in your armoury alongside speculation

And on the second highlight - 'probably'? I can see that the climbdown has begun. A post ago it was 'never'.

[bigmacDFC]

By top level i don't mean fannying about in a relegation battle with Norwich or West Brom or something.

That would be the West Brom who are 8th, last season finished 10th and the season before finished 11th on goal difference, and are therefore, consistently a top-half team?

Norwich are 12th, on goal difference, and last season had the same points as the team finishing 10th, therefore are/were just off being a top-half team two years in a row.

[Mr. Brightside]

So the reason he never played for any of the top clubs was age? When Birmingham signed Barry Ferguson he was 31. When Scott Parker signed for Tottenham he was... 31.

With your point now in tatters it's no surprise to see you lose the rag and resort to unsubstantiated personal abuse. Shame. I've praised plenty of Scots, Darren Fletcher and Steven Fletcher in this thread alone. Perhaps this objective way of viewing players is one you should try yourself.

That's not what I said. You asked why no PL club signed him when Birmingham were relegated.

My point in tatters? You're the one who was making unsubstantiated claims about him "not being good enough for Blackburn" and "not playing for Blackpool". Which were nonsense. Lose the rag? What? Are you okay? I know, that is what I was alluding to.

[Cardiffdon]

That's not what I said. You asked why no PL club signed him when Birmingham were relegated.

My point in tatters? You're the one who was making unsubstantiated claims about him "not being good enough for Blackburn" and "not playing for Blackpool". Which were nonsense. Lose the rag? What? Are you okay? I know, that is what I was alluding to.

Don't worry Mr Brightside you are absolutely correct. Barry and Parker can only dream about having the composure or passing range of Barry Ferguson.

Vastly underappreciated player.

[Lex]

That's not what I said. You asked why no PL club signed him when Birmingham were relegated.

My point in tatters? You're the one who was making unsubstantiated claims about him "not being good enough for Blackburn" and "not playing for Blackpool". Which were nonsense. Lose the rag? What? Are you okay? I know, that is what I was alluding to.

Still digging that hole? I asked why he had never played for a top club. You said something about age and Rangers. Which has been promptly thrown out by him leaving Rangers for a second time at 31 and going to.... Birmingham City.

So, were all the top EPL managers and scouts wrong about him, or are you? I know who's football judgement i trust more.