Hillsborough debate

[Savage Henry]

To some that would make sense.

Thatcher thinking muppets that is...

Not one poster in all 26 pages has claimed the fans are universally to blame. Partially responsible, yes. Entirely, no.

[ayrmad]

Not one poster in all 26 pages has claimed the fans are universally to blame. Partially responsible, yes. Entirely, no.

It appears to be a very big partially to some on here, shameful.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Yep. Only Thatcher thinking muppets could be so mentally sick as to post most of the shitty spiteful driveling codswallop that has been posted in this thread in regards to what happened.

TBH i think you're still p***ed off that the Liverpool fan Musketeer Gripweed slapped away your pathetic brothers-in-arms style attempt to jump on their bandwagon.

Nae luck.

[Swampy]

It appears to be a very big partially to some on here, shameful.

Exactly. You'd think on a week that showed massive cover-ups and exaggerations of the fans' roles, people might look inward a bit at their motivations and influences. Sadly not.

[Itwiznaeme]

TBH i think you're still p***ed off that the Liverpool fan Musketeer Gripweed slapped away your pathetic brothers-in-arms style attempt to jump on their bandwagon.

Nae luck.

Post whatever you want about me lad - Jupe1407 the spitefully scummy Thatcher-thinking troll has been fully exposed along with his friends on this thread. And that is all that matters.

Edited to add: Everyone reading can make up there own minds in regards to who are and who are not "pathetic" after reading all of you and your friends pathetic spitefully scummy Thatcher-thinking trolling posts.

Nae luck.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Itwiznaeme

[peasy23]

worthwhile reading that Post-Hillsborough disaster editorial.

Read it at the time and I've been a long time subscriber, and it's little surprise it's one of the few fanzines still surviving, it's generally on the money with most things. One quote stands out from the editorial, especially when you think it was only written weeks after the event.

'Identification of the real culprits is lost amid desperate, scurrying attempts to avoid blame.'

[Itwiznaeme]

Gave up reading this thread after the first page.

Usual morons trying to cause a stir with pish about fans with only themselves to blame. That'll be fans including children who arrived early and got a space down near the front and were then crushed from behind. Yeah those c***s are partly to blame eh? Imagine going to a game of football and expecting to come back alive.

What odious fuckers some people are.

You did the right thing Rover.

[peasy23]

You did the right thing Rover.

You still here? You said yesterday you were leaving.

[Itwiznaeme]

You still here? You said yesterday you were leaving.

1) What is your opinion on the recent 'revelations' concerning "Hillsborough" the topic of the thread?

2) What is your opinion on all the pathetic scum (include yourself if you are one of them) who chose/choose to think what corrupt members of shyster-controlled corporate media and corrupt shyster-controlled politicians told/tell them to think rather than think for themselves?

14 September 2012 Last updated at 14:08

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ngland-19598228

Hillsborough police officers may face manslaughter inquiry

The police watchdog may be asked whether officers involved in the Hillsborough disaster should face manslaughter investigations.

The Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police, David Crompton, said the force was looking into a number of issues to refer to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

An independent report into the tragedy found police tried to blame Liverpool fans for the crush on 15 April 1989.

The IPCC is reviewing the report.

Mr Crompton said the issues the force may refer could include corporate manslaughter, manslaughter and misconduct in public office.

He also said questions should be raised about why the earlier Lord Justice Stuart-Smith report, which looked into the alteration of police statements, was accepted.

'Troubling issues'

Ninety-five fans were crushed to death and hundreds more injured on the overcrowded terraces of the Hillsborough stadium, which was hosting an FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.

The 96th victim, Tony Bland, was left in a coma after the disaster and died in 1993.

The victims' families have always challenged the original inquest, which concluded all the victims were dead or brain dead 15 minutes after the game had kicked off at 15:00.

Mr Crompton, speaking at a South Yorkshire Police Authority meeting in Barnsley, said: "Clearly, there may be potential for corporate manslaughter, given some of the detail which came out the other day."

"That relates, of course, to how things were handled on the day and the view taken about the 3.15 cut-off point.

"In addition to that, there may, again potentially, be the possibility of manslaughter investigations against individuals."

"Again, these are only potentials, these are things we are looking at at the moment, I'm not saying that these are definitely things which are to be referred to the IPCC."

Other areas that the force will be considering referring to the IPCC will be issues of misconduct in public office and leaking information to the media, he added.

He confirmed there would be a referral to the police watchdog "in the next couple of weeks".

West Yorkshire's police authority is also to investigate the role played by its current chief constable, Sir Norman Bettison.

The former South Yorkshire officer, who was an off-duty inspector at the game, is coming under mounting pressure to resign after releasing a statement suggesting fans made the job of the police more difficult on the day of the tragedy.

Speaking on Thursday, he said: "Fans behaviour, to the extent that it was relevant at all, made the job of the police, in the crush outside Leppings Lane turnstiles, harder than it needed to be."

But on Friday afternoon he released a second statement saying

"fans were in no way to blame for the disaster".

He said he was sorry if his first statement had caused further upset.

He added: "My role was never to besmirch the fans. I did not do that. I am deeply sorry that impression and slight has lingered for 23 years."

Earlier, John Mann, MP for Bassetlaw in Nottinghamshire, said many of his constituents were at the game and is calling for Sir Norman to resign.

"I thought his position yesterday was rather shaky, but after the statement he made when he seemed to have a go again at the Liverpool fans, I think his position is untenable. He has got to go."

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg said Sir Norman's comments about the Hillsborough disaster, were "insensitive and ill-judged".

The Mayor of Liverpool Joe Anderson has also asked Liverpool John Moores University to strip Sir Norman of an honorary fellowship conferred on him in 2004.

A spokeswoman for the university said: "This request will receive due consideration."

Deputy chairwoman of the IPCC, Deborah Glass, said the report raised "extremely serious and troubling issues for the police".

She added: "We are reviewing the panel's report and we are aware that South Yorkshire Police are also carrying out a detailed assessment of the report with a view to making a referral to the IPCC.

"We also await the decision by the Attorney General in respect of the inquests, and will liaise with the relevant parties to identify what should be investigated, and by whom."

The report was made public by the Hillsborough Independent Panel on Wednesday.

Panel members, chaired by Bishop of Liverpool the Right Reverend James Jones, spent two years trawling through more than 400,000 documents relating to the disaster at the start of the FA Cup semi-final at Sheffield Wednesday's ground.

Their report showed police amended 164 of the police statements made about the tragedy, with 116 of those substantially changed to remove or alter "unfavourable" comments regarding the policing of the match.

It also showed the lives of 41 of the victims could potentially have been saved if the response of the emergency services had been swifter.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Itwiznaeme

[Sergeant Wilson]

You are a catering sized idiot

Get your own lines!

[AyrshireTon]

Not read the thread.

Little doubt that the police and authorities have fucked up badly and rightly have to take the blame for what they have done or caused.

But my overriding feeling has always been that had the ticketless fans stayed at home then no one would have been killed in that manner, or indeed, at all.

If i had been one of those who showed up without a valid ticket I'd still be wracked with guilt over having contributed to the death of 96 of my fellow supporters. Tragically, I'd wager that very few, if any, of them do.

[Itwiznaeme]

Little doubt that the police and authorities have fucked up badly and rightly have to take the blame for what they have done or caused.

But my overriding feeling has always been that had the ticketless fans stayed at home then no one would have been killed in that manner, or indeed, at all.

If i had been one of those who showed up without a valid ticket I'd still be wracked with guilt over having contributed to the death of 96 of my fellow supporters. Tragically, I'd wager that very few, if any, of them do.

1) Do you know precisely why football clubs around the world pay stewarding companies and police forces a combined billions of pounds annually? ...what those companies and forces are paid for and precisely what is expected of them for all the money that they charge and receive from those football clubs?

2) Do you know precisely what the duties are of those stewarding companies and police forces who are paid to steward and police football matches?, and precisely what the individual duties are of each individual steward and police officer on duty at football matches?

Edited September 14, 2012 by Itwiznaeme

[doulikefish]

So when do the families start going for the cash??

[Dindeleux]

Good old South Yorkshire Police. My dad got his nose broken by one of that lot during picketing in the 84 miners strike.

The fact he was 1- A miner 2-Irish 3-Living in Scotland meant he was public enemy #1 for the force he called 'Thatchers boot boys', most nasty vicous b*****ds of all the police forces he said.

You and your dad and grandad (infact your whole family) should write a book. It would be fantastic.

It would be fiction right enough but it would be a belter.

[peasy23]

1) What is your opinion on the recent 'revelations' concerning "Hillsborough" the topic of the thread?

2) What is your opinion on all the pathetic scum (include yourself if you are one of them) who chose to think what corrupt members of shyster-controlled corporate media and corrupt shyster-controlled politicians told them to think rather than think for themselves?

I've been reading the whole report during the night at work this week, and what is abundantly clear is that the levels of incompetence from various agencies before, during and immediately after the event are truly horrifying.

I can only think that there are a lot of posters on here who have never actually been in a large crowd in an old terraced stadium.

[Savage Henry]

So when do the families start going for the cash??

Unfortunately, they scarpered after collecting all the crystals. Thieving gits.

[pacman]

Not read the thread.

Little doubt that the police and authorities have fucked up badly and rightly have to take the blame for what they have done or caused.

But my overriding feeling has always been that had the ticketless fans stayed at home then no one would have been killed in that manner, or indeed, at all.

If i had been one of those who showed up without a valid ticket I'd still be wracked with guilt over having contributed to the death of 96 of my fellow supporters. Tragically, I'd wager that very few, if any, of them do.

This is from a Mirror article, written I think by a survivor which quotes the Taylor Report.

"Instead, Lord Taylor laid the blame squarely at the door of the police.He highlighted their planning failure which allowed " dangerous congestion at the turnstiles" and ruled that "the immediate cause of the disaster was gross overcrowding, namely the failure, when the exit gate was opened, to cut off access to the central pens which were already overfull.

"They were overfull because no safe maximum capacities had been laid down, no attempt was made to control entry to individual pens numerically and there was no effective visual monitoring of crowd density."

He hit out at the police's "sluggish reaction and response when the crush occurred" and claimed that the total number of fans who entered the Leppings Lane terrace " did not exceed the capacity of the standing area".

So much for the thousands of ticketless fans theory.

Did not exceed the capacity of the Leppings Lane end. Which means that ticketless or not, if the police/stewards had directed fans into the more empty pens instead of allowing them to flow into those behind the goals, tragedy might have been avoided.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Post whatever you want about me lad - Jupe1407 the spitefully scummy Thatcher-thinking troll has been fully exposed along with his friends on this thread. And that is all that matters.

Edited to add: Everyone reading can make up there own minds in regards to who are and who are not "pathetic" after reading all of you and your friends pathetic spitefully scummy Thatcher-thinking trolling posts.

Nae luck.

You just HAVE to be an alias

[DA Baracus]

Some on here seem utterly desperate to blame Liverpool fans, despite all that has been revealed recently. Also what relevance does Heysel have to this thread? That's correct, absolutely none, but some still evoke it in a desperate attempt to smear the Liverpool fans, as if this is indicative of their behaviour, much like an attorney/solicitor/lawyer will bring up something from a witness' past and desperately try to make out that this is in fact what they are like all the time, and see see, look what an awful person they are, they once did something a while ago and so they must be an awful, awful individual. Heysel was the result of a small minority of Liverpool fans, yet this is being used to slur thousands.

So why are some of you so utterly depserate to make out what bad people the Liverpool fans and how they are to blame? And yes, I know none of you have said that they are entirely to blame, but your pathetic, scrambling desperation to make out that they are to blame for a part of it is saddening and shows that you are utter wankers.

Now what you need to do is quote single passages whilst ignoring others. You can also post numerous smiley face varieties when quoting the post, or perhaps one of several GIFs you lot use, or maybe a photo with something like 'Why so mad' or some such 12 year old internet bollocks. Or you can use the classic 'verge of tears, 'seething' etc type responses. And don't post one in 'jest' now either.

Edited September 14, 2012 by DA Baracus

[Itwiznaeme]

You just HAVE to be an alias

Unfortunately for you i am The Real McCoy and you really are pathetic. The wee laughing smiley's that you and your scummy friends have often posted along with your scummy posts on this thread showing no respect to the 96 dead fans or their 10s of 1000's of friends/relatives fool nobody. The fact that none of you are man enough to apologise for the earlier comments that you all made on this thread shows that you are altogether among the lowest scum on earth.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Itwiznaeme