T_S_A_R Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 questions the familes want answered . G27 — Coroner Dr Popper's instructions were to take blood alcohol levels on all victims – why were no blood alcohol levels taken from the senior police officers and other key officials as would be the case in, for example, a road crash. Points to the fact that even by 5pm the decision was taken to blame other people and they assumed alcohol played a relevant part. G26 — The treatment the families received at the temporary mortuary on the night of 15 April 1989 requires further scrutiny: statements were taken immediately after the families had identified their loved ones, without any legal representation. These statements were then used in inquests etc. The inference was all around alcohol. G25 — How many people were placed by the river Don, being assumed dead, and for how long were they left – note we have no evidence backing this point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I wasnt meaning at Hillsborough, just in general when it comes to Liverpool fans, and you are only kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Prove it? Like I said I go and myself and the group I go with have never once got in bother following Liverpool. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owsley Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 the truth is people at the back pushed and people at the front got crushed. apparently they don't teach newton's laws of motion on merseyside. And the people at the back of course knew that they were being put into an already overfilled section. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 5 Live also said they`d tried to contact Kelvin McKenzie, but with no luck, the silence from him is particularly deafening. Not really. I don't think he can be discredited any further. Nothing that has come out today makes him look any stupider than he already does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 And the people at the back of course knew that they were being put into an already overfilled section. no one in a big crowd should be pushing. individuals have to take responsibility. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 no one in a big crowd should be pushing. individuals have to take responsibility. Indeed. Generally if, in any queue of people, those in front of you aren't moving forward, or are moving forward slowly, it's for a reason. It's not that they don't really want to see the game and are just loitering about aimlessly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owsley Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Just to be clear, in terms of pushing, are you meaning outside the gates, which led to the gate being thrown open and a free for all or do you mean pushing once through the gate and in the tunnel? Because if you have a weight of people behind you, who is pushing and who is being carried along by a crowd's momentum? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Just to be clear, in terms of pushing, are you meaning outside the gates, which led to the gate being thrown open and a free for all or do you mean pushing once through the gate and in the tunnel? Because if you have a weight of people behind you, who is pushing and who is being carried along by a crowd's momentum? both and in the second case the pushing has to start somewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 5 Live also said they`d tried to contact Kelvin McKenzie, but with no luck, the silence from him is particularly deafening. Today I offer my profuse apologies to the people of Liverpool for that headline. I too was totally misled. Twenty three ago I was handed a piece of copy from a reputable news agency in Sheffield in which a senior police officer and a senior local MP were making serious allegations against fans in the stadium. I had absolutely no reason to believe that these authority figures would lie and deceive over such a disaster. As the Prime Minister has made clear these allegations were wholly untrue and were part of a concerted plot by police officers to discredit the supporters thereby shifting the blame for the tragedy from themselves. It has taken more than two decades, 400,000 documents and a two-year inquiry to discover to my horror that it would have been far more accurate had I written the headline The Lies rather than The Truth. I published in good faith and I am sorry that it was so wrong." – KELVIN MACKENZIE 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Doctored police statements? Attempted impugning of the dead? Do yourself a favour and shut up for once. Oh be quiet, you whining little grief tourist. Interesting that all I did was agree with other posters, and yet I'm the only one you choose to tell to shut up. Very professional mod behaviour, just as per for you really. HB has already said everything I would have said. I agree with all his posts on this issue. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Today I offer my profuse apologies to the people of Liverpool for that headline. I too was totally misled. Twenty three ago I was handed a piece of copy from a reputable news agency in Sheffield in which a senior police officer and a senior local MP were making serious allegations against fans in the stadium. I had absolutely no reason to believe that these authority figures would lie and deceive over such a disaster. As the Prime Minister has made clear these allegations were wholly untrue and were part of a concerted plot by police officers to discredit the supporters thereby shifting the blame for the tragedy from themselves. It has taken more than two decades, 400,000 documents and a two-year inquiry to discover to my horror that it would have been far more accurate had I written the headline The Lies rather than The Truth. I published in good faith and I am sorry that it was so wrong." – KELVIN MACKENZIE Cheers was just about to post it. Not really. I don't think he can be discredited any further. Nothing that has come out today makes him look any stupider than he already does. Other than a flimsy apology, which is actually more of a blame-shifting exercise on his part, of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Oh be quiet, you whining little grief tourist. Interesting that all I did was agree with other posters, and yet I'm the only one you choose to tell to shut up. Oh, is this another one of your 'poster and not the post' type complaints? If this is the case then sorry, but you won't see a clearer example of someone responding to the content of one of your missives. You were completely and irrefutably wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrforce1 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Your singling out the behaviour of Liverpool fans - im saying that the behaviour was typical of football fans and that the problems were caused by the poor facilities and crowd control. As has been proven today and the prime minister has apologized for it. There has been too much nonsense spouted about this subject over the years blaming the fans for this disaster however the truth has come out eventually. Hopefully justice will follow and they won't have to wait another 23 years for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Oh, is this another one of your 'poster and not the post' type complaints? If this is the case then sorry, but you won't see a clearer example of someone responding to the content of one of your missives. You were completely and irrefutably wrong. Yes, I can see how well this argument is going for you already. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I don't see how anyone can find anything wrong with Nizzy's response to this: Liverpool fans are obsessed with finding some sort of conspiracy, when there just isn't one! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 As has been proven today and the prime minister has apologized for it. This was already given detailed consideration in the Taylor Report. Nothin new has emerged today about the causes of the tragedy. It is still, and always has been, a combination of police failures and fan behaviour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owsley Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 both and in the second case the pushing has to start somewhere. Some fans pushing as part of a large mass to get in on time to see kick off is hardly up there with opening of the gate, not directing them into the relatively roomy section, not giving orders that the kick off must be delayed and all the other deviousness that has come out. I'm not saying the fans were totally blameless but did they really do anything differently to how we'd have expected fans of any other large club to behave on the day? A few drunks, a few ticketless chancing their arm but the majority just desperate to get in and see the kick off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 The courage and dignity shown by the Hillsborough families and survivors is an example to all of us. For 23 years they have fought for truth and justice on behalf of the victims and survivors of this terrible tragedy and all Liverpool supporters. Victims and survivors suffered not just on April 15, 1989 in Sheffield, but for over two decades afterwards with the shameful slandering of their actions by people who abused their position and power. Speaking as someone whose family directly suffered, I know the pain and hurt will remain. However, I hope that today's report helps bring some comfort, now that everyone knows what happened on that day. STEVEN GERRARD http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/steven-gerrard-statement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE63 exile Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Hell of a lot of p*sh being spouted on here by people who I bet have never ever experienced an English Football League game in the 1980's before this happened. The Police treated you like shit. Cattle wouldn't be hurded around like football fans were hurded around then. It was like a continuation of the Miners Strike at time. That type disaster was waiting to happen back then. I can remember Spurs playing Newcastle United in an F.A Cup tie in 1987 and that very same thing happened at White Hart Lane. The Met listened to a few fans that day otherwise it would have been a White Hart Lane Disaster we would be talking about instead of Hillsborough. It was mentioned today on three previous occasions at F.A Cup Semi-Finals at Hillsborough there had been been near misses on a scale with what happened in 1989. The Spurs v Wolves 1981 Semi was mentioned as was as one two. I think it was a one in 1987 involving Coventry and Leeds and the Notts Forest v Liverpool one in 1988 a year earlier. That's when Liverpool Chairman Peter Robinson confronted the FA to complain about their fans being put in the Leppings Lane End especially when all the Forest fans would be travelling into Sheffield from that area of the ground. Sounds like South Yorks Police stopped as low as you could stoop going through criminal records of deceased fans and testing young kids to see if they had been drinking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This was already given detailed consideration in the Taylor Report. Nothin new has emerged today about the causes of the tragedy. It is still, and always has been, a combination of police failures and fan behaviour. Has anything actually new at all emerged? After the release of "the truth", have the Liverpool fans accepted they had a role in the tragedy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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