T_S_A_R Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Would you trust Rangers to pay the money back over decades? Given the amount of money passing in and out HMRC's coffers, I think you're seriously over-estimating the value of Rangers' debt in the grand scheme of things. HMRC can afford to play hard-ball here if they get the chance. If Rangers fail to con their way out of a CVA, or make sure that HMRC aren't holding 25% or more of the creditors list, then they are in imminent danger of liquidation. Any other claim is hubris as far as I can see. hmrc not getting paid is them losing regardless of what happens to a company. what's the danger? best case scenario they switch membership to a phoenix club and you never see the joins. worst case scenario their membership lapses and they rejoin the 3rd and are back in the spl in 3 years time debt free. they would be gretna times 100, getting back to being the second biggest team in the country would be piss easy and when they are the 2nd biggest then it's business as usual. actually having to repay a decent chunk of the bill over a number of years would be worse for them imo. you seem to think dodgy businessmen seeing a business being liquidated for not paying tax are scared straight. i think guys like craig whyte don't care about businesses being liquidated (and with limited liability who can blame them) and when they see a business being wound up for non payment of tax the non payment reward on show is much more appealing than the liquidating risk is chastening. Edited February 22, 2012 by T_S_A_R 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 hmrc not getting paid is them losing regardless of what happens to a company. what's the danger? best case scenario they switch membership to a phoenix club and you never see the joins. worst case scenario their membership lapses and they rejoin the 3rd and are back in the spl in 3 years time debt free. they would be gretna times 100, getting back to being the second biggest team in the country would be piss easy and when they are the 2nd biggest then it's business as usual. But Rangers aren't even remotely the only club in this predicament, there are English clubs going to be in a similar boat, with far more to lose. HMRC need to draw a line in the sand, and there is no reason why they shouldn't and won't pick Rangers to do so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 hmrc not getting paid is them losing regardless of what happens to a company. what's the danger? best case scenario they switch membership to a phoenix club and you never see the joins. worst case scenario their membership lapses and they rejoin the 3rd and are back in the spl in 3 years time debt free. they would be gretna times 100, getting back to being the second biggest team in the country would be piss easy and when they are the 2nd biggest then it's business as usual. actually having to repay a decent chunk of the bill over a number of years would be worse for them imo. you seem to think dodgy businessmen seeing a business being liquidated for not paying tax are scared straight. i think guys like craig whyte don't care about businesses being liquidated (and with limited liability who can blame them) and when they see a business being wound up for non payment of tax the non payment reward on show is much more appealing than the liquidating risk is chastening. From the Glasgow Herald today. Whyte "The only person at risk from the deal is me personally because I gave Ticketus personal and corporate guarantees underwriting their investment; the club and the fans are fully protected. In terms of exposure, I am personally on the line for 27.5 million pounds in guarantees and cash. I am the biggest stake-holder in Rangers and I face huge financial losses personally if the restructuring fails or is not allowed to proceed. Elsewhere in his statement, Whyte talks of his wish to gift most of his shares to fans if Rangers can come through the administration process." If he is not hung out to dry, HMRC, SFA, Strathclyde finest and the Administrators are all equally GUILTY 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoTeamGaz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 my question is this: How is Craig Whyte the biggest stakeholder in Rangers? he's only put, as far as anyone can see, a pound in & that went to Murray? If he's put any other money in at all where is it? The only way he's going to come out top of that creditors list is if he's billing the club for him putting the ticketus money in, meaning they're not only losing out on ticket money for 4 years, they also owe that same money back to Craig Whyte? & see that thing about Young & Traynor saying there's more to come out next week & every time is an announcement made 'oh aye we've known that for months' that's proper embarrasing, they're supposed to be journalists, out looking for stories & reporting on them! The biggest joke of this whole thing is the Scottish football media, the curtain's been pulled back a wee bit & now all can see that they just lark about being best pals with the old firm sitting on stories because they don't want to rock the boat. It's shameful that these guys get paid so much for doing nothing than rewording press releases. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Tom English in the Scotsman http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/tom_english_sorry_whyte_wash_that_is_full_of_contradictions_1_2130718 A systematic trashing of Whyte. Great read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jussy Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 This thread is quite funny too. They've decided he's no longer a hero but rather a character comparable with Mussolini and Hitler. There is a serious lack of perspective going on with some of that lot (amongst other things). I'm sure he's enjoying reading their suicide advice from Costa Rica/Monaco/wherever he's meant to be today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flood Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Looks like Whyte sold 16 shares in Arsenal that they had owned for a while. Another £200k in his pension fund, allegedly... Edited February 22, 2012 by flood 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 & see that thing about Young & Traynor saying there's more to come out next week & every time is an announcement made 'oh aye we've known that for months' that's proper embarrasing, they're supposed to be journalists, out looking for stories & reporting on them! I think that's a bit naive. Last week at the QOS v Aberdeen game open all mics, Richard Gordon was speaking about this with Chic and others, in short these guys all sometimes see evidence (RG specified this) but it's only shown to them, and is not in their possession. Without concrete proof of its existence, they are in a very difficult legal position and will not run such stories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRubberFist Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 At this rate, Whyte will be arrested before the end of the week... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 hmrc not getting paid is them losing regardless of what happens to a company. what's the danger? best case scenario they switch membership to a phoenix club and you never see the joins. worst case scenario their membership lapses and they rejoin the 3rd and are back in the spl in 3 years time debt free. they would be gretna times 100, getting back to being the second biggest team in the country would be piss easy and when they are the 2nd biggest then it's business as usual. actually having to repay a decent chunk of the bill over a number of years would be worse for them imo. you seem to think dodgy businessmen seeing a business being liquidated for not paying tax are scared straight. i think guys like craig whyte don't care about businesses being liquidated (and with limited liability who can blame them) and when they see a business being wound up for non payment of tax the non payment reward on show is much more appealing than the liquidating risk is chastening. Whyte couldn't give a flying f**k about this. Take a look through his previous directorships. There are plenty of guys like Whyte around taking on basket case businesses for hee haw and hoping to make a bit of wedge out the situation. You never hear about these things because they generally don't happen to be one of the only two football clubs that matter a f**k in this country to journalists and broadcast media. Take a look at guys like Ronnie McDonald at Accies, or John Fallon(someone I know). They all operate just like Whyte does, some of them stick around for a while if they are enjoying the particular business, some of them get out swiftly but none of them bat an eye at simply binning something that hasn't worked out as they'd hoped. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Looks like Whyte sold 16 shares in Arsenal that they had owned for a while. Another £200k in his pension fund, allegedly... If proven and reported widely, I reckon that'll be the tipping point for Whyte. He can't survive that one. Edit to add, as I understand the share were a gift to Rangers around the time Herbert Chapman in charge of Arsenal and Bill Struth in charge of Rangers. A bit of history as much as anything. Edited February 22, 2012 by chico 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin M Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Whyte couldn't give a flying f**k about this. Take a look through his previous directorships. There are plenty of guys like Whyte around taking on basket case businesses for hee haw and hoping to make a bit of wedge out the situation. You never hear about these things because they generally don't happen to be one of the only two football clubs that matter a f**k in this country to journalists and broadcast media. Take a look at guys like Ronnie McDonald at Accies, or John Fallon(someone I know). They all operate just like Whyte does, some of them stick around for a while if they are enjoying the particular business, some of them get out swiftly but none of them bat an eye at simply binning something that hasn't worked out as they'd hoped. What I don't get then (and I accept all of the above) is why he's still releasing statements, full of falsehoods, contradictions and LOL moments. What does it matter to him? Is it merely that his ego is burned and he's determined not to be seen as the bad* guy by an entire nation? Did he really misjudge the level of scrutiny he'd be under with something like Rangers? *Open to interpretation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 What I don't get then (and I accept all of the above) is why he's still releasing statements, full of falsehoods, contradictions and LOL moments. What does it matter to him? Is it merely that his ego is burned and he's determined not to be seen as the bad* guy by an entire nation? Did he really misjudge the level of scrutiny he'd be under with something like Rangers? *Open to interpretation I sat in with a chap who was trying to do something similar to Whyte (at a normal business) and the guy basically utterly bullshitted his way through phone call after phone call. They don't give a f**k really. Lies just trip off the tongue as they are a means to an end and its just a game to them anyway. If it doesn't work out this time then there's always next time. I haven't got a clue about Whyte or the intricacies of this particular exercise, but I'm quite sure he won't be giving the tiniest shit about what anyone thinks of him. He obviously does have a pretty vast ego to have tried this on an outfit like Rangers. It's great fun to watch though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghPar1975 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'd have thought that the admin men would have had another conference by now...must be one today or tomorrow surely? The lack of any info must be a bit concerning for the Rangers supporters, or are they going for the 'no news is good news' approach?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghPar1975 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'd have thought that the admin men would have had another conference by now...must be one today or tomorrow surely? The lack of any info must be a bit concerning for the Rangers supporters, or are they going for the 'no news is good news' approach?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placidcasual Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Did he really misjudge the level of scrutiny he'd be under with something like Rangers? This is exactly what I think has happened here. He thought he'd come in, screw them for everything they're worth and slip quietly into the night. For someone who professes to have been a fan since he was a boy, he seems to have grossly mis-judged the level of media and public scrutiny he'd receive. As Welshbairn has said a few times, he's used to getting away with these sort of scams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It is superb to watch! I genuinely think the guy could end up in a body bag though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarreZ Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The BBC documentary basically nailed down exactly what was going to happen with Rangers and what Whyte had done to previous companies, he's an asset stripper and obviously thought this would be no different, he played the Rangers fan card to sucker them in and will be swanning off to some foreign land where he can count his coffers. The two statements yesterday which were what, about ten minutes apart, Whyte posting that he will hand over the club to the fans if he's still in charge is the last act of a desperate man, the administrators revelation shortly after that the debt was funded by ticketus money shows that one of them is lying and you would have to assume that its Whyte. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarreZ Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Looks like Whyte sold 16 shares in Arsenal that they had owned for a while. Another £200k in his pension fund, allegedly... And thats the revelation Traynor was obviously referring to yesterday. Id wager most of the Rangers fans probably didnt even know about them but will be up in arms about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin M Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Excellent thoughts on Whyte's statement and more here: http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/craig-whytes-statement-21st-february-is-it-wholly-unreliable/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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