vikingTON Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I'm sure SFA will consider their application fairly and robustly... Oh you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollymac Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Of course - if they really ARE negotiating terms for a newco then the sport is over, the league is rigged, etc etc. But, given the timescale where next season is concerned, it may be necessary to negotiate now, if they are to gain entry into the SPL. It's not clear if HMRC could pursue a newco in that way - there seems to be conflicting info from what I've seen. The HMRC certainly could go after a newco in such a way. The conflicting info is regards a legitimate newco, one that is formed on the back of a liquidation. What we appear to be witnessing here though, is the formation of a newco before the event, not after (which is, on the surface, normally the case). Creating a newco and receiving the go-ahead from the sporting authorities to continue 'as you were' would be to publicly stick two fingers up to the HMRC. And that is where the problem lies: phoenixing a company is done on the sly to pick up the pieces when things go wrong; phoenixing with pre-approval from the SPL etc would be to do so for one purpose only. At best, HMRC would go after pre-paid deposits for a number of years, based on the average turnover of the old company (over 3 or 5 years) - you might want to have a look at Rangers turnover for the last 3 or 5 years. At worst (or best, whichever way you look at it), they will do the same as above and also pursue the newco for debts and oldco directors for personal liability - this will include non-exec directors during the EBT period, including the one who is currently leading the Blue Knights consortium. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I just want them dead. Is that so much to ask? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 i love how del boy values his effort at rangers at £30m go on yersel whytey! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Of course - if they really ARE negotiating terms for a newco then the sport is over, the league is rigged, etc etc. But, given the timescale where next season is concerned, it may be necessary to negotiate now, if they are to gain entry into the SPL. It's not clear if HMRC could pursue a newco in that way - there seems to be conflicting info from what I've seen. Regardless of who buys what from whom, and just because there is all this talk of Wednesday deadline, statements being made after that, the Blue Knights getting a clear run for 14 days, that is all for nothing if Whyte digs his heels in. And I would fully expect him to do so. However if creditors are hung out to dry by whatever happens, I would fully expect HMRC to go personally after David Murray, Bain, Paul Murray, John Grieg and the other directors on a personal liability basis. Any limited liability as a director disappears once you start to try to destroy evidence. The talk of shredding documents, what did they know and when did they know it, all point to a hounding to the death. The new Rangers may well have won the European Championship by the time the chasing of the money personally from that lot is completed. (Apologies, this repeats what Pollymac just said before me.....) Edited April 3, 2012 by thelegendthatis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I'm sure SFA will consider their application fairly and robustly... surely it'll be rejected. This IS the SFA we are talking about. When have they ever done the proper thing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin M Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 The HMRC certainly could go after a newco in such a way. The conflicting info is regards a legitimate newco, one that is formed on the back of a liquidation. What we appear to be witnessing here though, is the formation of a newco before the event, not after (which is, on the surface, normally the case). Creating a newco and receiving the go-ahead from the sporting authorities to continue 'as you were' would be to publicly stick two fingers up to the HMRC. And that is where the problem lies: phoenixing a company is done on the sly to pick up the pieces when things go wrong; phoenixing with pre-approval from the SPL etc would be to do so for one purpose only. At best, HMRC would go after pre-paid deposits for a number of years, based on the average turnover of the old company (over 3 or 5 years) - you might want to have a look at Rangers turnover for the last 3 or 5 years. At worst (or best, whichever way you look at it), they will do the same as above and also pursue the newco for debts and oldco directors for personal liability - this will include non-exec directors during the EBT period, including the one who is currently leading the Blue Knights consortium. The administrators are openly discussing liquidation as a desired option for one buyer. A newco doesn't need to be set up until after the sale of assets occurs. Is this not (more or less) what happened to Leeds United? Old company liquidated, share transferred to new company, approved by the authorities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I'm sure SFA will consider their application fairly and robustly... surely it'll be rejected. Has nobody told you, the SFA never does things either fairly or robustly? They will talk as if they do, and then when they are caught out, they just do it anyway. The fact that Campbell Ogilvie tainted by the Rangers smell of dodgyness is still sitting there in a key position oblivious to how this is perceived by non SFA lackeys. It is really just the usual 2 fingers to anyone who even comments on what they do and how they do it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin M Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Regardless of who buys what from whom, and just because there is all this talk of Wednesday deadline, statements being made after that, the Blue Knights getting a clear run for 14 days, that is all for nothing if Whyte digs his heels in. And I would fully expect him to do so. However if creditors are hung out to dry by whatever happens, I would fully expect HMRC to go personally after David Murray, Bain, Paul Murray, John Grieg and the other directors on a personal liability basis. Any limited liability as a director disappears once you start to try to destroy evidence. The talk of shredding documents, what did they know and when did they know it, all point to a hounding to the death. The new Rangers may well have won the European Championship by the time the chasing of the money personally from that lot is completed. (Apologies, this repeats what Pollymac just said before me.....) The creditors are not hung out to dry* in that scenario though - it would only occur if a CVA does not. A CVA will (most likely) only not occur if HMRC block it? *They're hung out to dry in any scenario barring a high % CVA, or wealth off the radar billionaire paying off debts in full. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P45 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Letter to Duff and Duffer from a Fife Tory MSP. MSP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Letter to Duff and Duffer from a Fife Tory MSP. MSP Can you copy and paste it please. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Letter to Duff and Duffer from a Fife Tory MSP. MSP Hope he's hounded out of Fife by an angry mob with pitchforks.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTaxMan Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Letter to Duff and Duffer from a Fife Tory MSP. MSP Another reason to hate bloody Tories 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Can you copy and paste it please. Dear Mr Clark & Mr Whitehouse, RANGERS FC I am writing in relation to the current situation of Rangers FC. I am MSP for Mid-Scotland & Fife and also Convenor of the Scottish Parliament’s Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, although I am writing this in a personal capacity. I am also a debenture holder at Rangers FC and therefore technically a creditor of the company. I know that as administrators you are currently considering bids for the company. I believe that it is essential that any bidder considering liquidation is ruled out of the process. I say this for two reasons – firstly, liquidation would deprive HMRC of funds properly due to the taxpayer and, secondly, liquidation would jeopardise the future existence of an institution which means so much to so many people across the world. It is in the interests of HMRC that Rangers FC exit administration through a Company Voluntary Arrangement and therefore I believe that only bids that offer this course of action should be taken forward by the administrators. You will welcome the support from the fans of the Club, including the three supporters’ groups coming together to raise funds and who have now made payments to Dunfermline FC on behalf of the club. If Rangers FC is liquidated and a new club is established I fear that some of this support may disappear, which will damage the Club’s revival. It is a fact that Scottish football needs to change and adapt. It is in the interests for Scottish football for there to be a strong SPL, and having a strong Rangers FC in the top flight division will help bring in revenue. The long-term economic interests of Scottish football and Rangers FC are best served if the club is not liquidated. The administrators have a unique opportunity to see a new form of ownership for Rangers FC, where the fan is at the heart of the club, and this can be a catalyst to help improve Scottish football. I would welcome the opportunity to discuss this further and I can be reached at murdo.fraser.msp@scottish.parliament.uk if you wish to contact my office to arrange a meeting. Yours sincerely Murdo Fraser MSP Member for Mid Scotland & Fife (Scottish Conservatives) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 ...save Rangers.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 The administrators are openly discussing liquidation as a desired option for one buyer. A newco doesn't need to be set up until after the sale of assets occurs. Is this not (more or less) what happened to Leeds United? Old company liquidated, share transferred to new company, approved by the authorities. Leeds were NEVER in liquidation. As far as I am aware, Bates had an offer accepted by the administrators, the Leeds came out under CVA. HMRC, contested this. Administrators put club up for sale, Bates made a second offer which was accepted. Football League accepted it under "exceptional circumstances rule" and Bates took over. Football League then deducted them 15 points for still being in administration passed deadline for new season. Bates then changed the name of Leeds United when he took over. They were NEVER liquidated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTaxMan Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Hope he's hounded out of Fife by an angry mob with pitchforks.. As he's kindly supplied his email addy we should fill it with protests and tell him to GTF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tio Pepe Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Letter to Duff and Duffer from a Fife Tory MSP. MSP If he is writing in a "personal capacity" why is he using taxpayer supplied writing paper? Did we also supply the envelope, the postage, someone to type it, etc? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Letter to Duff and Duffer from a Fife Tory MSP. MSP Desperate stuff, I'm surprised he didnt say "the big house must stay open" Good of him to openly admit to the people of Fife he is a glory hunter Edited April 3, 2012 by Enrico Annoni 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Letter to Duff and Duffer from a Fife Tory MSP. MSP Is there a stock script these monkeys are reading from?? Beggars belief. No one apart from Rangers fan's is buying it. f**k OFF!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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