Homer Thompson Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Will it? Have Craigy's shares been delivered? Is it not possible that CW won't hand over. Leaving new Rangers owned by Wild Bill and old insolvent Rangers (prop. MBB). . The Chuckle Bros would have to liquidate the old club as there is no money to continue trading? This whole thing is preposterous. My understanding is that Whyte, does now, become irrelevant. He will still own shares in the oldco, and if that, by some miracle, comes through a CVA he'll be left with a business with no assets whatsoever, and no income. Once the oldco is liquidated, the creditors own the shares of the newco, not Whyte, as WTM explains ... In order for the Oldco to get a CVA, it has to have tangible assets ie. security. The tangible assets will be the shares in the Newco. If the CVA is not agreed to - and as Maureen from MIM has already explained on her podcast currently there's NO chance of a CVA as Ticketus and HMRC can both easily block it - then the old co is liquidated, which means everyone gets a cut of the tangible assets, ie. the shares - in accordance to their cut of the debt. All of a sudden Ticketus and HMRC own Rangers de facto, not Miller. Amount owed = £137 million Worth of Tangible Assets = £135 million. You can guess what happens next. That was my initial interpretation of what MIM said too. However, that leaves a big, big question - whats in this for Millar? Why would he pay £11m for a club that he's not, then, going to own? That bit doesnt make sense to me. Still don't understand why anyone would want to buy something that has the potential to be £135m in debt. It'd be like buying the titanic when its already starting to list. Because, once the newco is setup, it walks away from the debt of the oldco. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) Duffman about to do Q+A. Anyone found a live link? Edited May 3, 2012 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Surely if NewCo starts up and OldCo owns the shares that immediately puts NewCo in the position whereby their owning company is in administration and they should face a 10 point penalty. Was that not the situation at Southampton and more recently Portsmouth, the holding company in administration part that is. Also, if they're avoiding their financial obligations then is that really all that different from Neuchatel Xamax in Switzerland or Lausanne and Servette before them? If they can't prove they have the money to run next season, let's face it they can't, then it's no different to German professional club licensing. I can only hope UEFA are watching Doncaster closely, like management allowing a staff member to fail over a soft risk project and then ensuring he's dealt with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarreZ Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 My understanding is that Whyte, does now, become irrelevant. He will still own shares in the oldco, and if that, by some miracle, comes through a CVA he'll be left with a business with no assets whatsoever, and no income. Once the oldco is liquidated, the creditors own the shares of the newco, not Whyte, as WTM explains ... That was my initial interpretation of what MIM said too. However, that leaves a big, big question - whats in this for Millar? Why would he pay £11m for a club that he's not, then, going to own? That bit doesnt make sense to me. Because, once the newco is setup, it walks away from the debt of the oldco. What about the stadium/training ground etc? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 So how does the newco have any greater claim to the assets of the oldco, ie Ibrox, than the creditors? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadSaint Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Hmm Let me see i can probably get a mortage on a new house around the Million pound mark....then max out all my credits cards.....enjoy myself, get me a new new car maybe. Then quickly change my new to BigBadMirren leaving the building society and bank chasing the money from BigBadSaint...I can stall them long enough with offers of paying back £100,000 for the house.....in the meantime I'll look around and find something nice at the half million mark and come out laughing having enjoyed a champagne lifestyle for a year on my credit cards. Might even give up work with this plan. it can't fail can it....there are precendents being set. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 STV News: The Scottish Football Association and Scottish Premier League will shortly release statements clarifying their current positions over Rangers preferred bidder Bill Miller’s plan to create a new company. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Duffman about to do Q+A. Anyone found a live link? Quite appropriate it's being done in the shadier part of Ibrox. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) Because, once the newco is setup, it walks away from the debt of the oldco. No it doesn't. It's the equivalent of Norman Bates putting his mother in the fruit celler. The Oldco owns the Newco until the Oldco is wound up. So long as the Oldco exists, the Newco is little better off in real terms - the horror in the celler waiting to ruin mad Norman. Actually, what Miller's proposing is rather like Norman Bates pretending to be his mother to kid himself she's still alive. With no CVA, they can't magic the debts away, all they're doing is playing for time and hoping HMRC and Ticketus decide to give up. Edited May 3, 2012 by WaffenThinMint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Completely non-commital statements from both. They are aware that Miller has been given preferred bidder status, and will continue discussions with Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny van Axeldongen Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 How many times have the Administrators used the word "creditors" since they took over? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Surely if NewCo starts up and OldCo owns the shares that immediately puts NewCo in the position whereby their owning company is in administration and they should face a 10 point penalty. Was that not the situation at Southampton and more recently Portsmouth, the holding company in administration part that is. Also, if they're avoiding their financial obligations then is that really all that different from Neuchatel Xamax in Switzerland or Lausanne and Servette before them? If they can't prove they have the money to run next season, let's face it they can't, then it's no different to German professional club licensing. I can only hope UEFA are watching Doncaster closely, like management allowing a staff member to fail over a soft risk project and then ensuring he's dealt with. Thats a good point, actually, about the oldco being in administration. Maybe the new SPL rules RE newcos will supersede that though? What about the stadium/training ground etc? Sold to the newco, along with the SPL share, history, players etc, for £11m ... presumably. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steward17 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) SFA and SPL about to make statements on Newco barely an hour since the Admins Statement am i the only person who smells duplicity here. Edited May 3, 2012 by steward17 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Gripweed Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Meet the NewCo. Same as the OldCo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarreZ Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Thats a good point, actually, about the oldco being in administration. Maybe the new SPL rules RE newcos will supersede that though? Sold to the newco, along with the SPL share, history, players etc, for £11m ... presumably. I dont think its as easy as that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrugalNory Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I might be missing something here (and I haven't been back to check if this has been previously confirmed or not) but this is not a done deal yet surely? All he's done is bought the right to have a wee squint at the books before anyone else, no? There's still a long road to go. Including sorting out a predicatably messy CVA and getting some sort of agreement from the authorities that Rangers 2012 can inherit 1872's league share? Neither of the above are (yet) certain as far as I'm aware. (Although quite likely re: league share) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 SFA and SPL about to make statements on Newco barely an hour since the Admins Statement am i the only person who smells dupicity here. When the Chairmen met on Monday and decided very quickly to postpone their 'vote', anyone know how much longer they all remained at Hampden? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 So how does the newco have any greater claim to the assets of the oldco, ie Ibrox, than the creditors? Because the administrators control the assets. Therefore, they can decide that this deal is the best for the creditors and sell the assets to the newco. I believe, it could be challenged though. But to do that, you'd have to argue that the assets are worth more sold on the open market. Hmm Let me see i can probably get a mortage on a new house around the Million pound mark....then max out all my credits cards.....enjoy myself, get me a new new car maybe. Then quickly change my new to BigBadMirren leaving the building society and bank chasing the money from BigBadSaint...I can stall them long enough with offers of paying back £100,000 for the house.....in the meantime I'll look around and find something nice at the half million mark and come out laughing having enjoyed a champagne lifestyle for a year on my credit cards. Might even give up work with this plan. it can't fail can it....there are precendents being set. You could do all of that and declare yourself personally bankrupt. Totally different situation No it doesn't. It's the equivalent of Norman Bates putting his mother in the fruit celler. Actually, what Miller's proposing is rather like Norman Bates pretending to be his mother to kid himself she's still alive. With no CVA, they can't magic the debts away, all they're doing is playing for time and hoping HMRC and Ticketus decide to give up. Well, it does in as much as the newco cant be pursued for the debts of the oldco. But, of course, that still doesnt clear up the ownership issue, as you highlighted before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Meet the NewCo. Same as the OldCo. Let's hope the SFA decide "we won't be fooled again" (appropriate song by the way on the day of the council elections!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I dont think its as easy as that. I dont know for sure, but it seems thats the deal on the table. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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