Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Dundee Hibernian]

The £238k to Chelsea was a late EBT payment for taking that kafflick John Spencer off the people's hands.

[Claymores]

UEFA Statute / Article 64 states that clubs who are in dispute with their National Associations SHOULD go to CAS and NOT to an Ordinary Court of Law.

But for some stupid reason, the SFA rules (agreed by all 93 clubs last August) state that there is no recourse to CAS and the the findings of an SFA appeal are final and binding. These needf changed as JM'sGhost states.

[davestafford]

UEFA Statute / Article 64 states that clubs who are in dispute with their National Associations SHOULD go to CAS and NOT to an Ordinary Court of Law.

uefa will hammer them , and the sfa , as they threatened to do with sion, and the swiss f.a.

[Broccoli Dog]

preemptive

[davestafford]

The £238k to Chelsea was a late EBT payment for taking that kafflick John Spencer off the people's hands.

Edited May 29, 2012 by davestafford

[GirondistNYC]

1338302561[/url]' post='6283752']

UEFA Statute / Article 64 states that clubs who are in dispute with their National Associations SHOULD go to CAS and NOT to an Ordinary Court of Law.

The problem appears to be that CAS may not have automatic jurisdiction if it's not provided for.

The speculation seems to be remand for SFA explicit punishment or remanded with instruction to allow appeal to SFA. Shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for Rangers regardless. Might be able to avoid UEFA / FIFA ban hammer for going o COS on grounds wasn't clear they could go directly there.

May end with appeal to CAS of initial transfer embargo.

[welshbairn]

I expect withering derision from the judge..

[Ravelin]

Apologies if I'm a bit late with this but it's a struggle to keep up....

You are mostly correct. Sevco give £8.5M plus Jelavic Money. The D&P take £5.5M for running the club until now leaving the creditors with around £5M plus whatever is gotten from Collyer Bristow.

From my reading of the situation, there's currently 3 secured creditors as follows with approximated values,

The Scottish Sports Council £505,000

Premier Property Group Limited £103,000 (if their whole debt is secured)

Close Leasing Limited £1,560,000

So were talking of in the region of £2.1M being removed from the £5M, leaving under £3m for the unsecured creditors, including HMRC & Ticketus (excluding the uncertain Collyer Bristows court case amount).

Ravelin

[Araminta Moonbeam QC]

_{Twitter saying embargo stands. Unconfirmed.}

[MarreZ]

Why are the secured creditors only £7500 on the sheet?

"Close Leasing is a secured creditor under the administration after it provided new equipment for Ibrox kitchen upgrades in a deal Mr Whyte secured against income from the catering contract at the stadium In the report, Duff and Phelps said "indebtedness to Close Leasing Limited was approximately £1.6m, subject to accruing interest and charges" and discussions are continuing over repayment of this."

Edited May 29, 2012 by MarreZ

[ayrmad]

Oh, the tension

[Tonsilitis]

The liquidators wont come in. The assets will be transferred prior to liquidation.

To be honest, and maybe its just me, but that CVA poses more questions than it answers. A few "observations"

1) No mention of Whytes, supposed, floating charge

edited to add - seems there is ...

Whyte is listed as an unsecured creditor with the amount TBC As are the Bank of Scotland :huh:

2) No mention of where any transfer money from players sold in June goes

3) Greens sale has a bucket load of conditions - didnt H&D tell us it was unconditional?

4) On the actual figures - the sale of property is listed as c£4m if liquidated, but there is no cost attached in a CVA/newco. Its not included in the £8.5m/£5.5m sales to Sevco - why not?

5) The administration trading shortfall is listed at over £3m :-o

6) Total fees, including H&D and legal fees are over £5.5m for a CVA but over £6.2m for a newco or liquidation. Leaving aside the sheer scale of the costs, can anyone explain why it costs nearly £1m more to transfer to a newco or liquidate?

7) One of the notes says this

Can anyone explain why?

Holiday Pay, arrears of pay and pay in lieu of notice up to a limit of approx £410 a week are preferential. If it is not paid the government pays the employees and take over their preferential claim against the company.

As for the CVA proposal, if I were an ordinary creditor, my may question would be why does anyone think that Ibrox, Murray Park the club's other heritable assets shown in the balance sheet at £113m are worth just £4.5m? I am sure McDermid, New St Mirren Park, The Excelsior, Almondvale and others all cost more than that by a large margin. Then as you say, what about Whyte's security? Is it invalid and if so, why?

One reason that the CVA produces more for ordinary creditors is that because the heritable assets stay in the same company, as long as they keep paying the mortgage, Rangers will not have to repay the creditors with fixed securities other than as they currently fall due.

Fees are ridiculous and there are severe questions about how this admin has been conducted, especially in relation to redundancies which should have been dealt with early on.

I just cannot see this coming anywhere close to HMRC's requirements

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

I get that, but the question still remains ... why would he? If he isnt legally obliged to, then why would he leave money in the CVA pot when he doesnt have to?

The SPL cash, and tv money are separate. They have been listed as Excluded Assets.

I edited my previous reply but in a nutshell he doesn't have to pay this money but if he doesn't he wouldn't be given a cushy arrangement by the administrators and they would be obliged to asset strip to cover running costs and give the creditors more money, devaluing the club.

Legally you are right he doesn't have to but I'm sure any payments from Green to be made for running costs during CVA trading will be made before the CVA is concluded.

[Broccoli Dog]

Could lead to increase in aggression.

[ayrmad]

_{Twitter saying embargo stands. Unconfirmed.}

Don't know whether to cheer or scowl.

[Florentine_Pogen]

_{Twitter saying embargo stands. Unconfirmed.}

Nah, he jumped the gun I think.

[Cardinal Richelieu]

I think they were at it - Cliftonhill only has one stand and you were in it

Here's a picture taken from the main stand. What's that great big stand-like structure on the far side of the pitch?

[Kyle]

_{Twitter saying embargo stands. Unconfirmed.}

This would make me very happy.

[welshbairn]

The problem appears to be that CAS may not have automatic jurisdiction if it's not provided for.

The speculation seems to be remand for SFA explicit punishment or remanded with instruction to allow appeal to SFA. Shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for Rangers regardless. Might be able to avoid UEFA / FIFA ban hammer for going o COS on grounds wasn't clear they could go directly there.

May end with appeal to CAS of initial transfer embargo.

Rangers signed up to the SFA rules saying that the SFA tribunal is the last court of appeal. The FIFA rules don't dictate to national associations that they must allow appeals to COS, only that clubs may not take binding rulings from their association to non-sporting courts..

[drs]

Here's a picture taken from the main stand. What's that great big stand-like structure on the far side of the pitch?

Thats what everyone else but you calls a covered enclosure - not in anyway a Stand.

The lack of seats somewhat gives it away.

Edited May 29, 2012 by drs