SlipperyP Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 What Might Happen to Rangers at the Re-Heard Appellate Tribunal? Some lengthy reading for a Sunday, in which I attempt to answer the question of what Lord Carloway's Appellate Tribunal will decide about an additional sanction on Rangers. In the process of reaching a conclusion on this, I consider the following. What did the Judicial Panel think of the gravity of Rangers' offence? Sever, just lest than match fixing. What options are open to the Appellate Tribunal? All options are open to the the appeal, higher or lower. (Many thing that it will always be lower, but not true an appeal panel can raise the punishment as well as lower) Why I do not think ejection from the Scottish Cup is either competent or appropriate. This is a personal thought, personal thoughts should never come into punishment . But you are untitled to your personal thoughts as everyone. Fortunately we live in a society that deal in rational process, time will tell if the general public like it or not. What effect would suspension, expulsion or termination have on Rangers. They will probably die. What could Mr Green do, in the event of any of the above three penalties being imposed? Appeal, but probably lose as they have backed themselves into a corner that they created, and begin a fight that they couldn't win, however Green will not take on this fight, it's not in his interest to fight for a dead club (ie Newco) Can Rangers agree a shorter signing ban with the SFA? No they can not agree anything with the SFA, as the SFA will appoint a panel, like the last time but they must come to a result that is within the SFA rules. Again the can appeal, but see above why not. What will happen before Lord Carloway? Have a nice life as he probably has already, this is a professional gentleman, that has to make difficult decision every day. This was not his first and won't be his last. If unhappy with the decision can Rangers appeal further, whether to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, or to the Court of Session? Yes, they can appeal. However if they go through the Sports, it takes a long process, If they go to Session, they are dead. It would be crazy if they did appeal anyway, as they have asked to be punished with what is on the list. They can't refuse even if it the expulsion as that's on the list. And I conclude with a foray into Shakespearean adaptation! http://scotslawthoug...llate-tribunal/ I will try to answer your question, not as FACT but in my option, everyone is free to add/ridicule/or agree. After all we are nice big family now that can have moderate decisions without the mud slinging. Unless it from the bear delusional mob. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Think you are right, seem to remember that at the time, can't find any online articles about it though, just this from Wiki "Moore spent most of the 1998–99 season at Crystal Palace; despite being regarded as a success in London as the Eagles' fought relegation, he returned to Rangers after the South London club defaulted on transfer payments." i tried to find if there was a rule online but the only result i found was this http://www.edge.uk.com/press/releases/2010/Edge-lines-up-for-New-Year-with-Premier-League-product.pdf surprised rangers havent been involved in a similar "scheme" to be honest it sounds like the kinda thing they would get upto 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixuismagic Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 As always a good article, but I wouldn't rule out the prospect of Rangers getting a few months suspension from playing league games, then playing catch-up. The full year's suspension would likely kill them and that surely will be avoided. I wouldn't miss them but I guess others would. I would foresee fixtures issued then all of RFC's games being postponed until the suspension passes. The 6 month ban I suggested earlier would have the maximum effect - make them play twice a week until the end of the season. I can see 3 months being given though. I would suggest the lack of specified time on the suspension punishment makes this the toughest soft sanction on the table. The fairest way to apply a suspension of less than 12 months would be to suspend them from the first round of SPL home and away fixtures (22 matches), awarding 3-0 results to all opponents. That would allow them to complete the final 11 fixtures and the 5 after the split (probably in the bottom 6). Hopefully that would give a good chance of relegation too and therefore provide a proper punishment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Interesting article in the Scotsman today about how Scottish football will survive without Rangers. The figures quoted are a worst case scenario and doesnt take into account greater competition, the feel good factor, clubs finishing higher up the League, greater possibility of Europe qualification and potentially higher gates. Scotsman Oops. Apologies to those who have already posted this link but good to keep it bumped so that no-one misses it Edited June 3, 2012 by NorthBank 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Leighton Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 right i get what your alluding too but if they are to play their matches then where is the punishment in the suspension Having to play 10 months games in half the time. I'd expect there to be issues with player fatigue, also the psychological impact of being bottom of the league for a while. Do you think, considering their financial problems, they'd come back in for a successful season? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Laughable??? Are you for real?? He has also tweeted sectarian slurs on Rangers and their support in the past. His position is surely untenable after this!! Is your name also your IQ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Leighton Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I will try to answer your question, not as FACT but in my option, everyone is free to add/ridicule/or agree. After all we are nice big family now that can have moderate decisions without the mud slinging. Unless it from the bear delusional mob. Did you read his article? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I don't think they can. The judgement has been set, so the SFA would be in contempt if they applied the embargo. Even if they could precedent has now been set for Green or another owner to take the SFA straight back to court for handing out a non-statutory punishment. The only outcome can be cup ban, suspension or expulsion. The transfer ban could stand if Rangers accept it on a voluntary basis. Why would they do that? As an alternative to suspension maybe? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 A whole day to catch up on but this Scotland on Sunday article is the business http://m.scotsman.co...ngers-1-2335890 They must be wrong, HJ's always telling us we would need 1000's and 1000's of new fans to make up for all sorts of lost revenue. Are there really folk suggesting that the SPL chairmen have managed to find a pair, I'll keep putting my eggs in the SFA/UEFA basket. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Leighton Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 If Rangers agree to the embargo after appealing it, SFA should double it to remind them to take their medicine at first time of asking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I will try to answer your question, not as FACT but in my option, everyone is free to add/ridicule/or agree. After all we are nice big family now that can have moderate decisions without the mud slinging. Unless it from the bear delusional mob. Be better just reading and understanding http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/03/what-might-happen-to-rangers-at-the-re-heard-appellate-tribunal/#more-1230 The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, which would have had a similar effect. With the same 3 members of the appeal committee sitting again in judgement, I am convinced they will shaft Rangers Royally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Leighton Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 The fairest way to apply a suspension of less than 12 months would be to suspend them from the first round of SPL home and away fixtures (22 matches), awarding 3-0 results to all opponents. That would allow them to complete the final 11 fixtures and the 5 after the split (probably in the bottom 6). Hopefully that would give a good chance of relegation too and therefore provide a proper punishment. I don't disagree but do SFA have the power to void SPL matches? (I don't know either way). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 There has been much speculation overnight about the role of FIFA or UEFA. I suspect that in comparison to the issues they will need to address imminently in Italy, they will look at the position in Scotland - and specifically Rangers - as something shite on their shoe. Irritating but easily enough wiped away. They won't think twice about nailing Rangers or the SFA if they are prepared to watch the whole of Italian football cease. However, Rangers can only currently be punished for what has already happened. To me that now looks like a suspension because there is no room left to use judgement. If the EBT case is settled in HMRC's favour then there will be a massive financial penalty (which they won't pay - see current CVA proposal). However, the footballing sanctions that will sit alongside any such outcome will need to be considered. There will be all sorts of stuff about being punished twice for the same offence. But if there is a belief that what happens in sport should stay in sport then no consideration will be given to external factors. Double contracts = cheating for years and years. Added to a decision taken to pay players rather than taxes and it begins to look really bad for Rangers. Of course they may win their appeal and only end up with their current suspension. It's impossible to say how all of this will turn out. But for Doncaster to suggest everything will be fine if the CVA is accepted is just silly. Everything will be fine if the CVA is accepted, the EBT goes in Rangers' favour, the SPL find no evidence of double contracts and the SFA punishment which is currently back at the Appeals Tribunal is agreed by Rangers. For all the speculation over the last 24 hours, Doncaster must be sitting with both sets of fingers crossed and his feet off the ground if he thinks all the cards will fall in favour of Rangers - which seems to be what he wants more than anything because it protects income streams. If he's not contingency planning for something between best case and worst case scenario then he's needing hunted. I'm sure he is though and he's just flat-batting the media for the moment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 How about: 5 year ban from Scottish Cup 6 month suspension from SFA (effective from July 1st, applied to all competitions and matches) Fine of £100,000 In terms of the 6 month suspension, I would see it as some way towards being just, but not forcing them to fold. Rangers would not have to concede any games as 3-0 defeats, but they'd have to accommodate their 38 game programme into the period of Jan 2nd to mid May. And bloody Sky get to keep their OF grimfests. And us diddies get to keep the TV money. If the police refuse to cover 18+ games at Ibrox in that space of time, then the ones they won't do are closed door. Everyone's a winner. Having teams coming late into a league is not unheard of: for legal reasons, in Greece last year two sides didn't start until late November, 3 months after everyone else. Dammit Jim. You been on long night shift? Or has the vaseline got into your eyes and brain? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Having to play 10 months games in half the time. I'd expect there to be issues with player fatigue, also the psychological impact of being bottom of the league for a while. Do you think, considering their financial problems, they'd come back in for a successful season? playing games closely together is NOT a punishment a real suspension i.e losing all games by default 3-0 over a 6/12 month period is a punishment if they get to play every game there is no point at all in suspending them , maybye a suspended 6 month suspension would suit better i.e give them a chance to behave under new ownership should it happen under close supervision if its decided they arent suspend them for the 2nd half of the season 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p&b is a disgrace Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 but if they are to play their matches then where is the punishment in the suspension They'd be dead by Christmas. No income, but still with wages and overheads? They couldn't do it.........unless through borrowing again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Be better just reading and understanding http://scotslawthoug...unal/#more-1230 The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, which would have had a similar effect. With the same 3 members of the appeal committee sitting again in judgement, I am convinced they will shaft Rangers Royally. I totally agree, they are dead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 A part season suspension sounds like the sort of cunning plan the halfwit contingent on here would dream up. We'll be getting pictures of Itzdark entering Slaters shortly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p&b is a disgrace Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 The transfer ban could stand if Rangers accept it on a voluntary basis. Why would they do that? As an alternative to suspension maybe? ...and if they did, would they rerfund the SFA with the costs thet were awarded at the CoS? And the SFA's costs too for that matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Did you read his article? I did mention if you would like to amend feel free, I don't give a sh!t if i'm overly wrong, this was MY opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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