rossdunbar93 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The CVA is a shocker. I'd be genuinely surprised if it went through. There are still 3 or 4 investors waiting for this CVA to fall on its arse. So what happens then? Surely, the administrators have a duty to get the best for the creditors ... i.e Green's agreement is humped? I was told by a lawyer last night that Green's £5m agreement wouldn't stand up in court. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The longer this drags on the more likely that they will survive with light punishments. We are now 16 weeks into this shambles and what has happened? They have lost no players as yet. They have survived a possible transfer embargo. The CVA looks like it will be accepted. Throughout this so-called administration, they have been able to keep everyone at the club and are still paying out more per week than any other side outwith their cousins. I suspect that once the CVA is agreed, they will be kicked out the cup for a year for financial irregularities. As far as the duel contracts are concerned, the fixtures will have been published, so the SFA/SPL will decide on a suspended sentence. In all, they will have received a 10 point deduction last season, no Scottish Cup next season. The enforced free Saturday in January they will line up some glamour friendly to rake in the cash. I said when the transfer embargo was overturned that it was the day Scottish football died, and nothing that has happened since has changed my view. I now firmly believe that they will be back in the SPL next season, with NO points deduction, NO transfer ban and NO meaningful sanctions. Lets not forget, they will be debt free and back in a STRONGER position than at any time since SDM took over all those years ago! Remember also that the European ban is only for next season. All in all, it looks like Whyte/H&D/Green have played a blinder, as they rightly gambled on the spineless ineptitude of the suits in Scottish football. Sad, pathetic but oh so predictable! Excellent! The pessimism returns, that means tomorrow will bring another kick to the bawsack for Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mps02 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 quite correct.....Himmler committed suicide by cyanide shortly after his capture by the Allied Forces. In fairness, Nuremburg descended into a bit of a farce as although the Defendants were guilty of genocide on an industrial scale, the Plaintiff's had been guilty of vaporizing over 500,000 civilians in the Worlds first Atomic bomb attack. I know........... Yeah a bit off topic but in a nice way. History is written by winners- Winston Churchill The Americans, British and Russians all have crimes to answer for on an industrial scale, however to bring the discussion back to the topic a bit, it just shows that when we have a compliant media you really can get away with murder. Now the footballing side of things seems to be running along a slightly parallel line, with a compliant media (DR, Current Bun etc), all guilty of sooking up to Minty. They now cannot believe their beloved team has done this (all the crimes they have been guilty of, or about to be found out) and so they go around blaming everyone else, (nasty Taxman, SPL, other chairmen, Tarrier conspiracy etc), getting the press to back them up (Traynor,etc). There really are very few 'neutral' press outlets in this case. Most of the supporters of other SPL teams are furious that the mighty Gers have been allowed to get away with all of this for so long. The fans groups are shouting loud and clear that the Gers must be hammered and the very LEAST that is expected is a demotion to Div 3. The point is that few in any position of authority, Cockwomble, Regan, Ogilvie (why is he still there?), and only the SFA independent panel showed any balls and look where that got them. Outed like a gay Tory MP, vilified and threatened by the very 'fans' of the mighty Gers. This is an unholy mess and I hope it is resolved soon, but I can see it going on and on and on and on..... BTW can anyone explaine what a Tarrier is? i know it refers to a catholic but where does the expression come from? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossdunbar93 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The longer this drags on the more likely that they will survive with light punishments. We are now 16 weeks into this shambles and what has happened? They have lost no players as yet. They have survived a possible transfer embargo. The CVA looks like it will be accepted. Throughout this so-called administration, they have been able to keep everyone at the club and are still paying out more per week than any other side outwith their cousins. I suspect that once the CVA is agreed, they will be kicked out the cup for a year for financial irregularities. As far as the duel contracts are concerned, the fixtures will have been published, so the SFA/SPL will decide on a suspended sentence. In all, they will have received a 10 point deduction last season, no Scottish Cup next season. The enforced free Saturday in January they will line up some glamour friendly to rake in the cash. I said when the transfer embargo was overturned that it was the day Scottish football died, and nothing that has happened since has changed my view. I now firmly believe that they will be back in the SPL next season, with NO points deduction, NO transfer ban and NO meaningful sanctions. Lets not forget, they will be debt free and back in a STRONGER position than at any time since SDM took over all those years ago! Remember also that the European ban is only for next season. All in all, it looks like Whyte/H&D/Green have played a blinder, as they rightly gambled on the spineless ineptitude of the suits in Scottish football. Sad, pathetic but oh so predictable! Such a bitter post. It's hard to logicallty debate with folk at times. They lost no players because the players took pay cuts. Quite simple, to be honest. As I said above, my understanding is that the CVA won't go through. I'd be surprised. For going into administration - the club was punished 10 points (according to the rules). Also, banned from European football for not filing accounts on time. For non-payment of PAYE, the club has been fined and I would suspect kicked out of the Scottish Cup. The transfer embargo wasn't even a valid punishment. What more do you want? Kick Rangers out of Scottish Football - because that's what I suspect you are getting at. -11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CambieBud Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The CVA is a shocker. I'd be genuinely surprised if it went through. There are still 3 or 4 investors waiting for this CVA to fall on its arse. So what happens then? Surely, the administrators have a duty to get the best for the creditors ... i.e Green's agreement is humped? I was told by a lawyer last night that Green's £5m agreement wouldn't stand up in court. The problem is that there is no evidence that they will get anything at all if Rangers fold. It appears that Ticketus have agreed it and will take their chance in court against Whyte or his lawyers. It will only fail if HMRC knock it back, but they have no shown no inclination that they will. It will be grudgingly accepted and all the small debtors and football clubs will be shafted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossdunbar93 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The problem is that there is no evidence that they will get anything at all if Rangers fold. It appears that Ticketus have agreed it and will take their chance in court against Whyte or his lawyers. It will only fail if HMRC knock it back, but they have no shown no inclination that they will. It will be grudgingly accepted and all the small debtors and football clubs will be shafted. HMRC's is the stumbling block, apparently. Perhaps, someone can expand a bit but I believe HMRC has criteria on what needs to be met for a CVA to be accepted? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 For the sake of credibility the following should happen: Rangers should be thrown out of the SPL. They would probably be admitted to division three and could work their way back up. Depending on the EBT outcome they should be stripped of their titles. Haudit & Daudit should be pulled before the civil courts and be asked to explain their actions. Anyone associated with Rangers in the past should only be given TV/radio/newspaper space if they are willing to answer the hard questions that they've not been asked so far. Chic Young, Fatty Traynor, et al should be sacked for complete and utter incompetence in covering the biggest football story to ever hit the Scottish game. Charles Green should be sent to an old folks' home. I could add that Crig Whyte should become Sir Craig Whyte but that would be partisan. An interesting option would be for him to be abandoned down Govan way about 11.30 one Saturday night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CambieBud Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Such a bitter post. It's hard to logicallty debate with folk at times. They lost no players because the players took pay cuts. Quite simple, to be honest. As I said above, my understanding is that the CVA won't go through. I'd be surprised. For going into administration - the club was punished 10 points (according to the rules). Also, banned from European football for not filing accounts on time. For non-payment of PAYE, the club has been fined and I would suspect kicked out of the Scottish Cup. The transfer embargo wasn't even a valid punishment. What more do you want? Kick Rangers out of Scottish Football - because that's what I suspect you are getting at. I can't disagree with anything you say, other than your belief that I want them kicked out. I don't! What I want is ANYONE connected with Rangers to publicly acknowledge that there has been wrongdoing on a grand scale for years and that as a result, the club deserves to be punished in a footballing sense. A little humility. Instead for 16 weeks, there have been veiled threats against other clubs, the SFA, the SPL etc. I want them to accept liability for cheating their fellow professionals last season. I also want them to publicly apologise to their own staff, for not paying PAYE! Is that too much to ask? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunfellaff Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 BTW can anyone explaine what a Tarrier is? i know it refers to a catholic but where does the expression come from? The Roman Catholic slang variation is possibly derived from Saint Erasmus being labeled as a tarrier of time before torture and execution for his beliefs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p&b is a disgrace Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 It will only fail if HMRC knock it back, but they have no shown no inclination that they will. HMRC will not accept the CVA. D&P have made sure of this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 HMRC's is the stumbling block, apparently. Perhaps, someone can expand a bit but I believe HMRC has criteria on what needs to be met for a CVA to be accepted? Baron Greenback has included the BTC in his CVA proposal knowing that would make the HMRC the biggest creditor and will most likely say "NOOOOOOO" to virtually pennies in the pound and will just wind up the Rangers instead as a deterrent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 HMRC's is the stumbling block, apparently. Perhaps, someone can expand a bit but I believe HMRC has criteria on what needs to be met for a CVA to be accepted? It's all here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/helpsheets/vas-factsheet.pdf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mps02 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The fact that its taken so long for H&D to provide the requested "evidence" is concerning. However, I think the SPL will take their lead from the BTC. If that finds in favour of HMRC then I think it would be difficult for the SPL to find in favour of Rangers, unless they already had contracts detailing the EBT paymenrs - that would make them "illegal" in a tax sense, but "legal" in a footballing sense. You would have to think, though, that if they already had this then there wouldnt be a case to answer. As to what happens, who knows! Again, you would have to think that it would be bad, very bad. Stripping them of the titles and relegation, at the very least, would seem the only option. If the SPL find Rangers guilty, will the SFA then, also, get involved? After all, it wont just be SPL matches where the "illegally" registered players will have played. What about UEFA, will they start to take an interest? Oh, I dont doubt that they'll try. But the argument is a very simple one - if you want to continue in the SPL, by transferring membership and share - then you do so as the same club. Same club = outstanding punishments. If you want to leave the punishments behind as a new club, then you cant play in the SPL. I dont see much room for manoeuvre If the mighty Gers get (rightly) stripped of the titles and Scottish cups from the SPL and SFA, will the SFL follow suit and howk the league cups back as well? I only ask as it will affect my club (League cup winners 2002), and as yet the SFL have managed to remain outwith all this nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Meanwhile some poor Rangers supporter helping out the RFFF raise money for the CVA fund doomed for failure also falls at the first attempt !. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_p Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) forgive me for asking but i am minutes back in the country and i am reading that the transfer embargo has went out the window. Can someone give a quick update without boring everyone. did rangers go to court? what did fifa do? or did the sfa.just crumble? Edited June 5, 2012 by graeme_p 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) If the mighty Gers get (rightly) stripped of the titles and Scottish cups from the SPL and SFA, will the SFL follow suit and howk the league cups back as well? I only ask as it will affect my club (League cup winners 2002), and as yet the SFL have managed to remain outwith all this nonsense. If they did get stripped of any titles and cups, I cant see them being awared to the runners up, they might go down the Serie A route when Juve was found guilty of cheating http://en.wikipedia....Serie_A_scandal Juventus finished as champions, although they were later stripped of the title due to their involvement in the 2006 Serie A scandal. Runners-up AC Milan were also implicated in the scandal, and as a result that season's title was not awarded to any club Juve Punishment Stripped of 2005 and 2006 Serie A titles• Out of 2006–07 UEFA Champions League [8] • Three home games behind closed doors • Relegated to Serie B. EDIT: a section about Juventus wanting to take to the italian courts Juventus originally announced that they planned to appeal the punishment to the Italian civil courts, an action that would have brought further punishment to the clubs and the FIGC by FIFA. FIFA has historically taken a dim view to government involvement in football administration. Earlier in 2006, FIFA briefly suspended the Hellenic Football Federation due to draft Greek legislation that would have allowed for government supervision of football. FIFA announced that it had the option to suspend the FIGC, thus barring all Italian clubs from international play, if Juventus went to court.[11] The hearing was scheduled for 1 September. Juventus, however, dropped its appeal before the Lazio Regional Administrative Court (TAR in Italian) on 31 August, the day before it was to be heard. Juventus officials cited the "willingness shown by the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) and the Italian National Olympic Committee (CONI) to review its case during (CONI's) arbitration."[12] Edited June 5, 2012 by Enrico Annoni 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambos Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 It appears that Ticketus have agreed it and will take their chance in court against Whyte or his lawyers. where has this been reported? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 where has this been reported? At the end of the day Ticketus will surely claim on insurance loses which is why they are not making such a big deal about it.The more money they can get back from this then the less their premiums will go up after getting stiffed by Scottish law I reckon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutty Old Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The longer this drags on the more likely that they will survive with light punishments. We are now 16 weeks into this shambles and what has happened? They have lost no players as yet. They have survived a possible transfer embargo. The CVA looks like it will be accepted. Throughout this so-called administration, they have been able to keep everyone at the club and are still paying out more per week than any other side outwith their cousins. I suspect that once the CVA is agreed, they will be kicked out the cup for a year for financial irregularities. As far as the duel contracts are concerned, the fixtures will have been published, so the SFA/SPL will decide on a suspended sentence. In all, they will have received a 10 point deduction last season, no Scottish Cup next season. The enforced free Saturday in January they will line up some glamour friendly to rake in the cash. I said when the transfer embargo was overturned that it was the day Scottish football died, and nothing that has happened since has changed my view. I now firmly believe that they will be back in the SPL next season, with NO points deduction, NO transfer ban and NO meaningful sanctions. Lets not forget, they will be debt free and back in a STRONGER position than at any time since SDM took over all those years ago! Remember also that the European ban is only for next season. All in all, it looks like Whyte/H&D/Green have played a blinder, as they rightly gambled on the spineless ineptitude of the suits in Scottish football. Sad, pathetic but oh so predictable! Your guess at what will happen next is all very well but it has no substance to it. You are fearful that Rangers may get off this lightly and you can't stand the thought. My view is entirely the opposite. I don't think they will survive with all the hurdles they need to negotiate and I think you are being particularly harsh on the 'suits' as you describe them. You said that nothing has happened to change your view but that doesn't mean that your view is correct. Reading your post, the only valid point you're making is that the process has takena while. You may turn out to be correct but, to even that up, you could well be wrong. Your criticism and predictions are baseless I'm afraid. Try to be patient, it may have a better result than you are expecting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 It appears that Ticketus have agreed it and will take their chance in court against Whyte or his lawyers. They have more chance of getting blood from a welly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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