Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[mizfit]

Ph you fucker, Charles green raging with jim White:

Jim: do you think Whittaker & lafferty left for Europe games?"

Green: NO! All finance, rangers sill be in Europe before Norwich"

He's just about screaming at the telly about how Scottish football will die in the next season, how fucking hilarious

[lithgierose]

who the fvck was he looking at with the side glances. sure signs of a liar

[Dee Man]

who the fvck was he looking at with the side glances. sure signs of a liar

Maybe he was looking for the fly that Gordon Strachan always seemed to be following around in his interviews.

[wunfellaff]

I see the Audis did go today right enough

[THE KING]

Traynor is right it will be the end of Scottish football if Rangers aren't kept in the SPL, it could lead to rioting in the streets a people's uprising which could spread to western Europe endangering millions of jobs the rise of facisim ,ethnic cleansing and the bubonic plague.

[EdTheDuck]

What do you think SPL income would be based on though? Presumably, the only income the SPL has its the tv deal and any sponsorships. I cant imagine the clubs contribute anything directly, or do they?

Hard to see how the tv deal and sponorship money would half simply with no Rangers.

Also, do you know if the assumption that the money is scaled down the leagues is correct too? If it is, then the impact on clubs is likely to be even less severe

When Setanta went tits up the SPL assured the SFL it wouldn't affect the annual settlement

That money is due in perpetuity as part of the terms of the breakaway from the SFL in 1998. Financially challenged clubs such as Dunfermline, Livingston, Clyde and Stranraer, who are dependent on the money trickling down from the SPL, are worried that the lack of TV cash could affect their ability to pay.However, they stressed that, even if they are forced to do without a broadcast partner next season, the SFL clubs will still receive their payments. "The Setanta deal isn't directly linked to the settlement agreement," said Greig Mailer, the SPL's marketing manager.

"Our media revenues took a hit before, when our first deal with Sky TV ended, but that didn't prevent us from fulfilling our obligations.

"While the current situation regarding Setanta is a matter of concern for everyone in Scottish football, I don't see how that scenario will have an impact on our ability to pay the settlement agreement.

Whether that is still the case...

[wunfellaff]

I see the Audis did go today right enough

lol, I just noticed other pics on that site

McCulloch arrives.(Audi)

McCulloch departs (Vauxhall)

[Jambos]

By the way. Is it possible that newco may not even get into the third division?

Seems to be that not a lot of people are covering this scenario...

[Sergeant Wilson]

Traynor is right it will be the end of Scottish football if Rangers aren't kept in the SPL, it could lead to rioting in the streets a people's uprising which could spread to western Europe endangering millions of jobs the rise of facisim ,ethnic cleansing and the bubonic plague.

Good.

[Broccoli Dog]

Edited July 2, 2012 by Broccoli Dog

[HibeeJibee]

What do you think SPL income would be based on though? Presumably, the only income the SPL has its the tv deal and any sponsorships. I cant imagine the clubs contribute anything directly, or do they?

Hard to see how the tv deal and sponorship money would half simply with no Rangers.

Well that all depends on Sky and whoever wants to replace Clydesdale Bank. We can have a rough stab at SPL's balance sheet:

SPL income we know:

* £13M UK TV (was to be £16M next season)

* £2M naming rights

+ overseas TV, subsidiary sponsor deals, pools (disappearing), SFA/UEFA/FIFA cash (declining)

SPL expenditure we know

* "over £17M" to clubs last season (unclear if includes next 2 figures)

* £1.8M to SFL

* £375k parachutes

* ~£500k refs

+ wages, operating costs, etc.

Also, do you know if the assumption that the money is scaled down the leagues is correct too? If it is, then the impact on clubs is likely to be even less severe

I tried to calculate the impact but it's a nightmare. If you consult SFL rules then after their running costs (wages, event costs, refs, etc.), some money is split evenly; then some more is graded; then any additional amount is graded more heavily. Threshold for this last amount is based on how much a figure from some years ago has risen on the RPI. Makes it prettymuch incalculable !!

OOPS ! foot n mooth syndrome from me then ! AGAIN !.

I would expect that money to be ring fenced.

That depends on the Settlement Agreement's conditions.

Edited July 2, 2012 by HibeeJibee

[hellbhoy]

:lol: :lol:

[Araminta Moonbeam QC]

Superb.

[hellbhoy]

By the way. Is it possible that newco may not even get into the third division?

Seems to be that not a lot of people are covering this scenario...

There is a possibility that the diddy clubs in the SFL could vote against a newco !.

I do wonder what the SFA will do if that scenario ever came into being as more and more SFL clubs are now voting against the newco getting into the first division and may even vote against SFL entry !.

[ayrmad]

OOPS ! foot n mooth syndrome from me then ! AGAIN !.

I would expect that money to be ring fenced.After all £1.8 million isn't a lot of money is it for 30 clubs ?.

I suppose the real part of my rant was for the media to start harassing SKY to fork out what we as a nation are due from sales of SKY products,instead of the doom and gloom scenario they are spouting.

Rangers death and SKY putting the boot in by threatening to reduce the TV revenue is the real problem here and not just because Rangers died.If SKY were to maintain the current deal then the threat of Scottish football collapsing would not be in question.Why aren't these journalists not highlighting the real problem ? SKY !.

The real problem for SKY if they help kill off our game and have an angry nation pissed at them for doing so.They will be left with an empty program schedule and that means that they will lose more in advertising revenue.They might put on something else but will lose out on major companies in revenue as the core audience ( US ) will have gone and will most likely give up our sports packages as a result and worse cancel all SKY packages for killing our game.

It's not the death of Rangers it's the threat from SKY that is threatening our game as a whole,and if these arseholes in the media were to pick up on this the whole of Scotland's media could put REAL PRESSURE upon SKY to do the right thing and fund our game comfortably.

As a result of a piss poor TV deal SKY are maintaining a system that every year robs the SPL of keeping it's players on long well paid contracts in Scotland.But SKY are making the divide for funding between the EPL and SPL much larger and with every new SKY contract,it is harder for SPL clubs to keep their star players because the English leagues have more money and can easily bribe ours.

If the media started a national outrage towards SKY on their unfairness towards Scottish football and is threatening our game as a whole they would bow to national pressure.They could headline "WE WANT A FAIR DEAL FROM THE MONEY WE IN SCOTLAND PAY SKY" and other headline like "SKY STAND TO LOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS EACH YEAR FROM DISILLUSIONED CUSTOMERS IN SCOTLAND" and many more to pressure SKY to cough up.

You all argue about fairness in Scottish football in general on here and pick on the OF as they have had a strangle hold ! broken now.But no-one has actually highlighted the real problem for Scottish Football RIGHT NOW outwith the OF's grip at the moment ! SKY !.The SFA ain't applying public pressure to get what we deserve from SKY,the media ain't doing nothing other than get the newco back into the SPL and only sell doom and gloom instead of applying pressure to get SKY pay our football what it's due proportionally.

SKY is the fucking problem here and not the death of Rangers,they are threatening to do worse to our WHOLE GAME with an even poorer pisspot deal if them cheating phoenix tax dodging B*stards aren't back in the SPL ASAP.

SKY MUST COUGH UP !.

No, Scottish football should operate their own TV channel, that could be the proper saviour of our game in the long term, HJ will say we're too pratted to do it, he's a penpusher, entrepreneurs see hard times as opportunity knocks.

There are millions of exiled Scottish football fans before we even look at how many on this island would purchase the right product at the right price.

[Homer Thompson]

When Setanta went tits up the SPL assured the SFL it wouldn't affect the annual settlement

Whether that is still the case...

That would certainly imply that it was a fixed amount, rather than linked to income. I cant imagine the SPL offering to pay the same amount if they could avoid it.

Well that all depends on Sky and whoever wants to replace Clydesdale Bank. We can have a rough stab at SPL's balance sheet:

SPL income we know:

* £13M UK TV (was to be £16M next season)

* £2M naming rights

+ overseas TV, subsidiary sponsor deals, pools (disappearing), SFA/UEFA/FIFA cash (declining)

SPL expenditure we know

* "over £17M" to clubs last season (unclear if includes next 2 figures)

* £1.8M to SFL

* £375k parachutes

* ~£500k refs

+ wages, operating costs, etc.

So if it is linked, the tv deal really is the key

I tried to calculate the impact but it's a nightmare. If you consult SFL rules then after their running costs (wages, event costs, refs, etc.), some money is split evenly; then some more is graded; then any additional amount is graded more heavily. Threshold for this last amount is based on how much a figure from some years ago has risen on the RPI. Makes it prettymuch incalculable !!

So, it would probably be reasonable to assume that it isnt a straight £60k per club

[ayrmad]

Good to see they're more balanced than normal.

Edited due to spelling like a RM regular.

Edited July 2, 2012 by ayrmad

[thelegendthatis]

The cost of having Rangers/Sevco operating as a football club

We have getting the scare stories of what Scottish football will lose if Rangers/Sevco are either not in the SPL or having to play in Division 3. Never mind them having to take the route that Annan Athletic had imposed on them.

What has not been included in these calculations is the cost of having Rangers at all. (I will call them Rangers to the annoyance of some).

The costs are the obvious ones such as the cost of policing described below from Wikipedia.

The Old Firm rivalry fuels many assaults on Old Firm Derby days, and some deaths in the past have been directly related to the aftermath. An activist group that monitors sectarian activity in Glasgow has reported that on Old Firm weekends, violent attacks increase ninefold over normal level. An increase in domestic abuse can also be attributed to Old Firm fixtures. A freedom of information request found that Strathclyde Police incurred costs of £2.4 million for the seven derbies played during the 2010–11 season, with the clubs only contributing £0.3 million towards that. Other high profile games involving Rangers and Celtic incurred much lower costs.The reason for the disparity in costs and the contribution made is that Strathclyde Police has to increase its activity elsewhere in Glasgow and beyond, while the clubs are only responsible for costs incurred in the vicinity of their stadium.

There is an established method of calculating for example the cost of a person being unemployed, being in prison, through to robberies and fraud. These are used by Governments in targeting their money and activity.

We can add other costs.

1. Travel. Rangers supporters will travel greater distances than other clubs. Just go to any town in Scotland on a Saturday morning and the Rangers buses will be there, as well as individual drivers. Ferries from Northern Ireland etc..And that is just for home games. Can also look at the travelling support to away games.

Let's work out the costs, and the carbon footprint. (Government likes carbon footprints)

2. Policing at games as above. Both home AND away.

3. Policing in local streets as crowds disperse to pubs, travel home and continue their anti social behaviour in their home town.

Includes murders and this is just one http://www.heraldscotland.com/two-more-arrests-after-old-firm-sectarian-murder-1.911043

Some good does result but at a price a civilised society should not have to tolerate. http://nilbymouth.org/about/

The cost of a murder is £1.8 million based on 2009 report.

4. Policing of public transport, vandalism and anti social behaviour. Note new plans for dealing with drunk/drinking passengers on trains. How often have we read of fighting on the ferry back to NI.

5. Domestic abuse. Figures were publicising a few months back. The police were making statements to warn potential abusers.

Also the domestic abuse that is not reported.

http://www.whiteribboncampaign.co.uk/Resources/violence_against_women

6. The people deterred from going to games because Rangers 'fans' are present.

7. Hospital costs, picking up the pieces after games. many outpatients depts now have security guards (extra cost).

I am not saying the issues are exclusive to Rangers. But they are a major contributor. One we now have a chance to deal with in a mature manner that gives us a better Scotland.

What else should be added to the above list?

(Now this the boring bit, but really important! Never thought I would be posting details of this on P&B!)

The Scottish Government has agreed objectives for all bodies it funds. This includes Councils, NHS, Police, Sports bodies (Sportscotland and the SFA) and many more. They each have commited to deliver the 15 targets below.

For Glasgow Council this is what they are saying they will deliver as part of this agreement. Read just the first few pages and you can see how Rangers in its pomp made these things more difficult to achieve. Therefore more costly.

http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A5D72770-3993-438F-B034-1E9CF547CDEA/0/GlasgowsSOA200910Final.pdf

Single Outcome Agreement

1 - We live in a Scotland that is the most attractive place for doing business in Europe

2 - We realise our full economic potential with more and better employment opportunities for our people

3 - We are better educated, more skilled and more successful, renowned for our research and innovation

4 - Our young people are successful learners, confident individuals, effective contributors and responsible citizens

5 - Our children have the best start in life and are ready to succeed

6 - We live longer, healthier lives

7 - We have tackled the significant inequalities in Scottish society

8 - We have improved the life chances for children, young people and families at risk

9 - We live our lives safe from crime, disorder and danger

10 - We live in well-designed,sustainable places where we are able to access the amenities and services we need

11 - We have strong, resilient and supportive communities where people take responsibility for their own actions and how they affect others

12 - We value and enjoy our built and natural environment and protect it and enhance it for future generations

13 - We take pride in a strong, fair and inclusive national identity

14 - We reduce the local and global impact of our consumption and production

15 - Our public services are high quality, continually improving, efficient and responsive to local people’s needs

Rangers disappearing would help the country work towards most of the target outcomes, and reduce public spending.

What we need is a document which quantifies all the additional costs their existence creates for all of us. This does not even include the taxes they don't pay.

Then present this to the Scottish Government to encourage them to put conditions on any funding going to football authorities either directly from the Government or through any of the other bodies they fund.

Edited July 2, 2012 by thelegendthatis

[pozbaird]

No, Scottish football should operate their own TV channel, that could be the proper saviour of our game in the long term, HJ will say we're too pratted to do it, he's a penpusher, entrepreneurs see hard times as opportunity knocks.

There are millions of exiled Scottish football fans before we even look at how many on this island would purchase the right product at the right price.

I wouldn't entertain SPL TV. I have an ST for St Mirren, and go to some away games. I have Sky - but it isn't for the SPL. It's for the NFL, the golf, the EPL, and the music and arts stuff.

I would see SPL TV as a very risky strategy. Just my gut feeling.

[HibeeJibee]

No, Scottish football should operate their own TV channel, that could be the proper saviour of our game in the long term, HJ will say we're too pratted to do it, he's a penpusher, entrepreneurs see hard times as opportunity knocks.

There are millions of exiled Scottish football fans before we even look at how many on this island would purchase the right product at the right price.

If an entreprenuer wants to pay the upfront cost, and make a pretty good case (and a short-term guarantee) that we'll make more off it after his cut and operating costs than an established broadcaster paying us to do it for us, then I'd take it at the drop of a hat.

Clubs baulked at it with Rangers involved, nevermind without.