Swello Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think many of us who traditionally supported Rangers have been gradually alienated. The morph from Scottish into a 'quintessential British club' seems to be part of a non-football agenda. Honestly, why on earth would anyone wave a union jack at Ibrox? Does the Queen visit Glasgow every week? And isn't it Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs that Rangers have stiffed? A better slogan might have been 'we don't do irony'. The daft songs about Ireland also persist. Some of us have had it with people who obsess about their right to sing songs about their Irish heritage. And what about those of us who are Scots with no Irish heritage, and no interest in Ireland's obscure history? Some of us just like football. And then you've got the current spokesmen for the club. I've heard threats, more threats, demands for boycotts of almost everyone and everything, but very little common sense spoken. Who's using the family brain cell at the moment? I'd love to see Rangers start again as a Scottish team, without the Irish and sectarian crap. It could be a team to be proud of. But if it's going to be Old Gers Mark II, with all the miserable non-football stuff, then the club will have lost me, and possibly many others, forever. Fantastic post there. I think the problem with actually starting a Real Rangers from scratch would be the danger that those starting it would be traditionalists and would fancy getting back to the "undiluted" version of the club that existed pre-Souness and not the version you'd like to see. Anecdotally, I think it's fair to say that there were a number of Rangers fans that felt alienated because the club made some moves away from the overt sectarian stuff in recent years (although to most of us, it's been a skin deep change and nothing more) - and these people given the chance would move things backwards. I am interested to see how it goes with the new club in the Third, as presumably it will be closer to the hardcore Rangers support that will turn out regularly (assuming that glory hunters will be turned off fairly quickly) - and I honestly think we'll see the "banned" songs, etc back in full flow before too long. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 My big fear it that this mentality manifests itself even more strongly next season (assuming a license is granted and Sevco stays solvent long enough to start one). In fact, I don't think there's any doubt that the first few games will be ugly as the support as a whole blow off steam from the last few months. If Sevco get sorted and kick off the season, I wouldn't expect any major problems at Sevco games in Div 3. IF Charlie Green presides over a total implosion in the next two weeks, and Sevco does a 'Third Lanark' - different story. Guaranteed to be a massive, massive gathering of severely angry TCFKAR fans, ready to lash out. My guess would be a gathering at Hampden. I wouldn't forsee big problems IF Sevco came through the divisions either. The big problems would manifest themselves if Sevco did indeed return to the SPL. It would be ugly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabawsa_Ritchie Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Cheers mate. I honestly expected to hear more from a 'silent majority' of decent Rangers' fans throughout all this. But there seems to be a collective denial of the reality of what's happened. The club I've always thought of as my club now seems to be run by ultra-Unionists and BNP types. It embarressing. I've no idea how these people managed to take over. They don't speak for me. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke). There's your answer M8. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Cheers mate. I honestly expected to hear more from a 'silent majority' of decent Rangers' fans throughout all this. But there seems to be a collective denial of the reality of what's happened. The club I've always thought of as my club now seems to be run by ultra-Unionists and BNP types. It embarressing. I've no idea how these people managed to take over. They don't speak for me. Where have you been ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Just had a thought (better have another in case it gets lonely, etc, etc...) Anyway - just came into my mind. We must assume (for a moment) that Charlie Green IS genuinely trying to establish his newco in Div 3, and to "be here for the long haul". He's a club owner who wouldn't be able to go to any games. Like Whytey, who had to keep away from Ibrox - how can Green possibly attend games? He'd need a team of security guards around him. Doesn't seem much fun spending a lot of time, money and effort to set up a football team that you'll never be able to watch, because your own supporters might lynch you. Why would anyone do that? Hmm. Maybe he's just in this for a fast buck after all. Edited July 18, 2012 by pozbaird 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huistrinho Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 If Sevco get sorted and kick off the season, I wouldn't expect any major problems at Sevco games in Div 3. IF Charlie Green presides over a total implosion in the next two weeks, and Sevco does a 'Third Lanark' - different story. Guaranteed to be a massive, massive gathering of severely angry TCFKAR fans, ready to lash out. My guess would be a gathering at Hampden. I wouldn't forsee big problems IF Sevco came through the divisions either. The big problems would manifest themselves if Sevco did indeed return to the SPL. It would be ugly. I should have, clarified - by ugly, I meant the songs being sung. I expect we'll see Billy Boys shouted out as a "proud act of defiance". I don't expect there to be any physical altercations (unless, of course, the away end gets filled by Celtic fans. Unlikely, but you never know...) I don't expect any problems at all by the time the team reaches the SPL (if it does), seeing as everyone and their dog is being boycotted for the rest of eternity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Just had a thought (better have another in case it gets lonely, etc, etc...) Anyway - just came into my mind. We must assume (for a moment) that Charlie Green IS genuinely trying to establish his newco in Div 3, and to "be here for the long haul". He's a club owner who wouldn't be able to go to any games. Like Whytey, who had to keep away from Ibrox - how can Green possibly attend games? He'd need a team of security guards around him. Doesn't seem much fun spending a lot of time, money and effort to set up a football team that you'll never be able to watch, because your own supporters might lynch you. Why would anyone do that? Hmm. Maybe he's just in this for a fast buck after all. Along the lines of what I posted yesterday. Surely no sane person would want to own a team whose own fans make him move from safehouse to safehouse for his own safety. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirondistNYC Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 1342615440[/url]' post='6443545']The worldwide brand nonsense has actually paralysed the main body of their active support believing the myth about bottomless pocketed mogul would step in. Having been taken in not once but twice by these type of investors in the shape of Murray and Whyte you would think some would want to reclaim their club but no, who have come forward more dubious characters picking over the corpse. I think that attitude caused problems well beyond the Bears support. H&D's handling of the administration was messy enough to support everything from allegations of everything from incompetence to conspiracy, but my best guess is that they were blinded by raw number of supporters, the big stadium and the titles and assumed that somebody would eventually step in with money sufficient to get a CVA done*. Portsmouth was a historically underperforming club that had a very sharp operator in the form of Mandaric trying to solve their stadium problem - when he gave up the writing was on the wall and during both administrations a reasonable administrator couldn't plan for a Deus ex Machina savior. I think H&D made a hasty and disastrous decision that a firesale outside the transfer window coupled with negotiated releases with lose more money for creditors in the form of lost prize money, foregone transfer value and reduced gates than muddling through. The wage reductions they pushed through would have been a stroke of genius IF somebody had shown up with decent money in April and a CVA agreed. They were blinded by the WATP and thought the problems at Rangers were due to poor management rather than deeper issues and an investor would rapidly agree. I also think that the omnishambles of the Scottish authorities response to this whole thing was also the product of the Rangers propaganda effect. One would have hoped the SPL and SFA would have been looking seriously at all possible options and making contingency plans accordingly. In particular, they should have been susding out the economic implications of all of the possible options. The line should have been consistent fom the beginning. Instead, it seems they never seriously thought about things until very late in the game. All those charts comparing SFA per capita attendance and the relative value of the current Scottish TV rights compared to countries like Norway and Greece should have been soundbites dropped into every press conference. Instead they were dug up and publicized on football forums and the most coherent mainstream case for the value of Scottish football was made by a BBC COMEDY RADIO PROGRAM. Again hard not to think the authorities weren't given false security by the WATP line until it was too late. Of course, that looks mad in hindsight and all they accomplished was dragging the value of the Rangers brand through the mud and giving the impression that Scottish football was less attractive. Triumphlism reaped a bitter harvest, with lots of collateral damage. Sorry for the long post. * Because of the way it played out, the RTC consensus that HMRC would never agree to ANY deal was never tested so it's unlikely we'll ever know. Certainly, anyone who thought big money might toss in £40 mil or so and satisfy HMRC (together with some season book compromise with Ticketus) so as to get a CVA looks silly now it's clear the best the "establishment" could do was TBK and the Cardigans. But given the information available to them at the time H&D might not have been batshit insane. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Gripweed Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 If Sevco get sorted and kick off the season, I wouldn't expect any major problems at Sevco games in Div 3. IF Charlie Green presides over a total implosion in the next two weeks, and Sevco does a 'Third Lanark' - different story. Guaranteed to be a massive, massive gathering of severely angry TCFKAR fans, ready to lash out. My guess would be a gathering at Hampden. I think they will be glad of any kind of gathering at Hampden over the next few weeks. They'll add it to the official attendance. Where do people think Sevco would be now if they had accepted the transfer embargo and forced the authorities into all sorts of contortions,/bullying/dirty tricks to get them to be accepted in to the SPL/Division One? I reckon they would have been still in the SPL myself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Saint Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think many of us who traditionally supported Rangers have been gradually alienated... Great post. And something I'm sure most of us would applaud. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Fantastic post there. I think the problem with actually starting a Real Rangers from scratch would be the danger that those starting it would be traditionalists and would fancy getting back to the "undiluted" version of the club that existed pre-Souness and not the version you'd like to see. Anecdotally, I think it's fair to say that there were a number of Rangers fans that felt alienated because the club made some moves away from the overt sectarian stuff in recent years (although to most of us, it's been a skin deep change and nothing more) - and these people given the chance would move things backwards. I am interested to see how it goes with the new club in the Third, as presumably it will be closer to the hardcore Rangers support that will turn out regularly (assuming that glory hunters will be turned off fairly quickly) - and I honestly think we'll see the "banned" songs, etc back in full flow before too long. I think this is pretty accurate. Going by posts by Sevco fans, and what i've seen on Twitter/Facebook etc, most of the fans that have proclaimed their delight at being placed in Division Three are the biggest bigots going, and want to be in Division Three solely because they believe the SPL will be in ashes by the time they get up there. I rather suspect that the away support will contain a lot of these arseholes, and the full spectrum of unpleasant party songs will be aired. Indeed over the the next few years, in terms of bigotry and intolerance, I fully expect to see Sevco become a much less pleasant form of Rangers (even if that seems possible), as I'd imagine the more reasonable former supporters will probably be put off going by the atmosphere generated by these c***s, and probably also because they're fucking around in the lower league and not taking part in any glamour games. Indeed, mention of Mark Dingwall possibly getting onto the new board tells you pretty much everything you need to know. His FollowFollow persona posted some really vile and bigoted stuff and i can't imagine he's seen the light since then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itwiznaeme Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Just had a thought (better have another in case it gets lonely, etc, etc...) Anyway - just came into my mind. We must assume (for a moment) that Charlie Green IS genuinely trying to establish his newco in Div 3, and to "be here for the long haul". He's a club owner who wouldn't be able to go to any games. Like Whytey, who had to keep away from Ibrox - how can Green possibly attend games? He'd need a team of security guards around him. Doesn't seem much fun spending a lot of time, money and effort to set up a football team that you'll never be able to watch, because your own supporters might lynch you. Why would anyone do that? Hmm. Maybe he's just in this for a fast buck after all. You are having a laugh with that ... "Maybe" ... right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Sorry Sandy, unless you change your name, your history will stay. Perhaps they can enter into negotiations. When Sevco clean up their honours board and remove the dodgy titles, the SFA will remove all the dodgy former rangers players/directors. Seems simple. Edited July 18, 2012 by jester 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayeladdie Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think many of us who traditionally supported Rangers have been gradually alienated. The morph from Scottish into a 'quintessential British club' seems to be part of a non-football agenda. Honestly, why on earth would anyone wave a union jack at Ibrox? Does the Queen visit Glasgow every week? And isn't it Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs that Rangers have stiffed? A better slogan might have been 'we don't do irony'. The daft songs about Ireland also persist. Some of us have had it with people who obsess about their right to sing songs about their Irish heritage. And what about those of us who are Scots with no Irish heritage, and no interest in Ireland's obscure history? Some of us just like football. And then you've got the current spokesmen for the club. I've heard threats, more threats, demands for boycotts of almost everyone and everything, but very little common sense spoken. Who's using the family brain cell at the moment? I'd love to see Rangers start again as a Scottish team, without the Irish and sectarian crap. It could be a team to be proud of. But if it's going to be Old Gers Mark II, with all the miserable non-football stuff, then the club will have lost me, and possibly many others, forever. Hear, hear Sir. Unfortunatly the lone voices of reason like yourself are too often drowned out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 My big fear it that this mentality manifests itself even more strongly next season (assuming a license is granted and Sevco stays solvent long enough to start one). In fact, I don't think there's any doubt that the first few games will be ugly as the support as a whole blow off steam from the last few months. After a few games I expect the crowds to dwindle, and that's the time to properly address this. At that point I'll be writing to Green to ask what his master plan is for wiping it out. I'm not holding my breath for a reply through. I'd start doing it now - license or no license. Let Green and the board know your views. Is there an internet home for the moderates? If not form one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itwiznaeme Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Personally I think they should come onto the pitch to 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hows this for a Chrissie Prezzie - come the transfer window in January why dont some of the better SPL clubs with promising youngsters or even better established guys loan these to the better 3rd Div sides i.e. a wee bit of help along the way does nobody any harm. You get ma drift! I was thinking the very same thing. With a bit more focus on the 3rd Division I can see some players who would go on loan to 1st or 2nd Division clubs appearing in the 3rd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Sergio Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Danish pastry, some great posts there. I'd like to see more sane Sevco fans like you actually come out and speak your mind. We are nearly three thousand posts into this thread and you're about the only one with a grasp on reality from your support. I wonder if we could see two new clubs emerge from this. You are wanted here: http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/164130-january-transfer-window/page__st__1900 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Diamond Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Charles Green, chief executive of the Ibrox club, revealed yesterday that Mather has invested more than £1million for a share of about 10%. Mather, who is the managing director of Simply Sport Management and runs a manufacturing business, hopes his contacts can help the club move forward. A statement from Mather on the club's official website read: "I am delighted to have invested in The Rangers Football Club with my business partner Guy Gisborne. "In addition to the financial investment, my sports management business, Simply Sport Management, specialises in youth players. I am confident that my colleagues and contacts within this field will prove invaluable. "The facilities within the youth academy and training centre at Murray Park are world class and we must continually improve to ensure that the players coming through are of the same standard. "I look forward to being part of the team rebuilding this fantastic club." Ok,i know Airdrie is not known for its abundance (no pun intended) of mensa candidates,but even i can work out that if Green has 10% and this guy Mather has 10%...where are they other 80% of shareholders that are part of the new sevco. I do hope that the SFA don't get fleeced by this late ploy of investment,as these guys (Mather and Gisborne) have only just come on the radar due to the SFA wanting to know who is actually involved in Greens consortium. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Are there any internet forums where the mythical "decent Rangers fans" are getting together to discuss the situation? Are there supporters clubs devoid of loyalist paraphernalia where DRFs meet? Why are none of the DRFs speaking out for the club in the media? Is this part of the conspiracy against your club? all the exposure goes to the bampots and bigots. Maybe you are just a tiny, slightly naive minority and maybe it's time to find yourselves a less poisonous club to be associated with. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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