Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[HibeeJibee]

Tbf, there are new club/old club vagaries all over the place.

Being unseeded in the League Cup is another.

[stonedsailor]

There is no old club,there is however an old company that is known as The Rangers Football Club plc which transferred the SFA Membership to the new company,The Rangers Football Club Limited that know owns the club,thus ensuring continuity of the historical timeline. Whether you or anyone else agrees or disagrees on this continuity is neither here nor there,the relevant football authorities deem it as a continuance.

The old club changed it's form from a members association to a company in 1899 when it was incorporated, can you show me where that company has since changed it's legal form?

Club is a term for a group or association of people, a club can take many forms including incorporated bodies but for a continuation to happen that club in whatever manner it takes it's shape needs to legally change it's form.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

"Except in the minds of diddy clubbers and plastics" does that mean that the only place Rangers are a continuation is in the small and narrow minds of Sevconiains?

That would appear to be our special friend's meaning from where I'm standing, as well. Strange, really, cos if any non-orc were to suggest as much, he'd be off crying to Tedi and Bennett to unleash their rapier wit on the uppity untermensch

[WhiteRoseKillie]

I thought the SFA would have a conflict of interest as they allowed these EBTs to be used and knew all about them and the players were registered with them. If it transpires that the players were wrongly registered does that not show them as being incompetent?

We don't know how much the SFA knew about the EBTs, or whether the amounts appeared as part of registration documents. Who at the SFA would have dared to question rangers' registration documents?

More to the point, why would anyone at the SFA even know about the scheme? You surely don't expect a busy man like the President of the SFA to know about such.....Oh, hang on......

Can - opened. Worms - fucking everywhere.

In other news : Butterkist shares rise sharply after late-summer decline.

[Claymores]

I thought the SFA would have a conflict of interest as they allowed these EBTs to be used and knew all about them and the players were registered with them. If it transpires that the players were wrongly registered does that not show them as being incompetent?

That is utter pish and really feable excuse making. As Rangers Tax Case so eloquently put it regarding these Cevco whimpers:

"That Rangers were forced to liquidate, form a new club, and restart in SFL Division 3 is a fair outcome. The last remaining task is to ensure that the sporting records are adjusted to account for the 5 SPL titles, 4 Scottish Cups, and 6 Scottish League Cups won during the 11 years of paying players with money they did not have. Drastic player cuts, or insolvency, sometime in the 2006-08 period would have been a virtual certainty if Rangers had not been avoiding tax. It is worth emphasising that had Rangers paid these players the same net salaries during the EBT period of 2001-2011, their wage bill would have been almost £50m higher (unadjusted for inflation). That extra £50m would have had to have been paid by Lloyds / HBOS or a chainsaw taken to the playing squad. This is the value of the financial advantage gained prior to Craig Whyte taking over at Ibrox.

Once the First Tier Tribunal (Tax) finally rules, the SFA will have to act. If, as I expect, that the FTT finds that Rangers had been knowingly operating an illegal implementation of the EBT scheme, it would discredit every trophy ever won in Scottish football if the honours acquired by Rangers during this time are not withdrawn. It is for others to decide if new winners should be appointed, but trophies gained through illegal means cannot be allowed to stand. Please do not believe the rubbish that somehow Rangers declared what they were doing to the SFA. You can see a typical "declaration" here. It does not even say that players were using the scheme. It does not say that any payments were made outside of contracts given to the SFA or SPL. It does not provide anything that would have let a tax expert know that something was amiss let alone football administrators- who are simply not qualified to do any kind of forensic accounting analysis. So let us stop with this "it was in the annual accounts" nonsense!"

Edited September 11, 2012 by Claymores

[beermonkey]

There is no old club,there is however an old company that is known as The Rangers Football Club plc which transferred the SFA Membership to the new company,The Rangers Football Club Limited that know owns the club,thus ensuring continuity of the historical timeline. Whether you or anyone else agrees or disagrees on this continuity is neither here nor there,the relevant football authorities deem it as a continuance.

I stopped reading there, cos that's all we needed to know.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[HTG]

My recollection is that the licence for the new club (CLUB) was authorised on the basis that Newco accept Oldco penalties. If that includes title stripping then so be it. In my view it should include title stripping as a minimum if found guilty. There should be a review of income generated by Rangers and potential loss of income by others. That should result in a multi million pound fine. If they bleat about it after accepting the licence conditions then the licence should be revoked and the cheating c***s launched out of the game. They should have been booted out months ago.

[youngsy]

The old club changed it's form from a members association to a company in 1899 when it was incorporated, can you show me where that company has since changed it's legal form?

Club is a term for a group or association of people, a club can take many forms including incorporated bodies but for a continuation to happen that club in whatever manner it takes it's shape needs to legally change it's form.

Go down this road all you like,all i'm saying is that the club,The Rangers Football Club,that's always been the correct name btw,is recognised by the relevant football authorities as a continuation. Argue all you will but that is the reality,however as you seem to think otherwise lobby the relevant footballing authorities on this and let me know how you get on.

[stonedsailor]

Go down this road all you like,all i'm saying is that the club,The Rangers Football Club,that's always been the correct name btw,is recognised by the relevant football authorities as a continuation. Argue all you will but that is the reality,however as you seem to think otherwise lobby the relevant footballing authorities on this and let me know how you get on.

No it's not, otherwise FIFA would not have sanctioned the transfer of registration for Allan McGregor to Turkey, the SFA were holding on to it because Sevco try to lay claim to the registration citing that they were the same club, two days after Besitkas contacted FIFA Charles Green's argument was thrown out and McGregor was given clearance. It is telling that no Scottish newspapers carried the story.

[Itwiznaeme]

Longer interview from CG Yet more hilarity.

"Honesty is the best policy" says the shyster... Is this cnut possessed by the spirit of Tommy Cooper? ... He's a cracker!

Edited September 11, 2012 by Itwiznaeme

[youngsy]

My recollection is that the licence for the new club (CLUB) was authorised on the basis that Newco accept Oldco penalties. If that includes title stripping then so be it. In my view it should include title stripping as a minimum if found guilty. There should be a review of income generated by Rangers and potential loss of income by others. That should result in a multi million pound fine. If they bleat about it after accepting the licence conditions then the licence should be revoked and the cheating c***s launched out of the game. They should have been booted out months ago.

The membership was transferred with conditions that the new company would accept football debts from the old company and accept any investigations into conduct of the oldco,not neccessarily accept the findings as they have the right to appeal. So you don't mind if the club invokes the right of appeal on any findings do you? Whether we go down the court of law route on this remains to be seen but the club will go down the avenue of appeal to the football authorities.

[Happy Buddie]

My recollection is that the licence for the new club (CLUB) was authorised on the basis that Newco accept Oldco penalties. If that includes title stripping then so be it. In my view it should include title stripping as a minimum if found guilty. There should be a review of income generated by Rangers and potential loss of income by others. That should result in a multi million pound fine. If they bleat about it after accepting the licence conditions then the licence should be revoked and the cheating c***s launched out of the game. They should have been booted out months ago.

x 100.

[PeeTeeJag]

For the SevCo fans on here.........

Take 2 and don't call me in the morning.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Go down this road all you like,all i'm saying is that the club,The Rangers Football Club,that's always been the correct name btw,is recognised by the relevant football authorities as a continuation. Argue all you will but that is the reality,however as you seem to think otherwise lobby the relevant footballing authorities on this and let me know how you get on.

That'll be why you've just banked £2 million for McGregor, then....

Oh, my aching sides. Leaving aside your mob's advanced schizophrenia, look at your new owner's history. (not the one he's bought, BTW )Charlie Boy's gone through more company names than Sally has Greggs loyalty points. The way he's kept all these plates spinning, all summer long, for our entertainment,he'll even be getting Ken Bates ringing him up for advice.

Just to be clear. The club and company, a single entity, known as rangers is currently awaiting liquidation, having died on its arse as a result of its own wrongdoing. The tribute act currently touring some of our smaller grounds (and one bigger than yours) is an advertising conceit designed to facilitate the flow of money from the welfare state to Charlie's pockets.

You lot are lapping it up.

And so are we!

[youngsy]

No it's not, otherwise FIFA would not have sanctioned the transfer of registration for Allan McGregor to Turkey, the SFA were holding on to it because Sevco try to lay claim to the registration citing that they were the same club, two days after Besitkas contacted FIFA Charles Green's argument was thrown out and McGregor was given clearance. It is telling that no Scottish newspapers carried the story.

FIFA sanctioned the transfer of McGregor to Besiktas because he did not transfer over under TUPE from The Rangers Football Club plc to the new company,The Rangers Football Club Limited,or to be precise Sevco Scotland,the company that owned the club at that instance. Green tried to lay claim to the player citing that they were the same club,certainly, but the whole situation came about because McGregor did not transfer from old company to new company,nothing else. Under TUPE regulations as employees of the old company they were legally entitled not to transfer over,and of which some players invoked that right to become free agents.

Absolutely nothing to do with transference of SFA Membership that ensures continuity. Now ffs this is it for me on this,save to say that in the years to come the continuity will still be recognised by the relevant people,of which you aren't one. Any chance you can let us know about your CAB and Trading Standards mission against Charles Green,really interested in finding this outcome.

[youngsy]

Alan MacGregor .. the authorities say ,,,, new club ..

So you'll have confirmation that it has been stated by the football authorities that this is a new club. Put it up where this was stated unequivocally.

[strichener]

Because you are not Rangers, Green bought some replica trophies and and some certificates which were awarded to Rangers. All he has are relics of a dead club.

Agreed, it rather like me owning a ticket and a recoding for a Beatles concert in the 60's and claiming I was there even though I am only in my 30s. Impossible.

[beermonkey]

FIFA sanctioned the transfer of McGregor to Besiktas because he did not transfer over under TUPE from The Rangers Football Club plc to the new company,The Rangers Football Club Limited,or to be precise Sevco Scotland,the company that owned the club at that instance. Green tried to lay claim to the player citing that they were the same club,certainly, but the whole situation came about because McGregor did not transfer from old company to new company,nothing else. Under TUPE regulations as employees of the old company they were legally entitled not to transfer over,and of which some players invoked that right to become free agents.

Absolutely nothing to do with transference of SFA Membership that ensures continuity. Now ffs this is it for me on this,save to say that in the years to come the continuity will still be recognised by the relevant people,of which you aren't one. Any chance you can let us know about your CAB and Trading Standards mission against Charles Green,really interested in finding this outcome.

And who would they be?

[stonedsailor]

FIFA sanctioned the transfer of McGregor to Besiktas because he did not transfer over under TUPE from The Rangers Football Club plc to the new company,The Rangers Football Club Limited,or to be precise Sevco Scotland,the company that owned the club at that instance. Green tried to lay claim to the player citing that they were the same club,certainly, but the whole situation came about because McGregor did not transfer from old company to new company,nothing else. Under TUPE regulations as employees of the old company they were legally entitled not to transfer over,and of which some players invoked that right to become free agents.

Absolutely nothing to do with transference of SFA Membership that ensures continuity. Now ffs this is it for me on this,save to say that in the years to come the continuity will still be recognised by the relevant people,of which you aren't one. Any chance you can let us know about your CAB and Trading Standards mission against Charles Green,really interested in finding this outcome.

No his registration was being held by the SFA on behalf of Charles Green for Sevco who wanted a transfer fee for him. Employment law and players registrations are two separate issues. One deals with employment and one deals with the registration of players. It was established a long time ago that under employment law the players were under no obligation to transfer their contract because the clubs are seperate entities in the eyes of the law however Charles Green's argument was not over the contract but over the registration of the players. Charles Green believed that Sevco and Rangers were the same club with continuation and that all the players' registrations continued to be held by the SFA in Rangers' name but FIFA (or the SFA) disagreed with this approach and the players registrations have obviously been viewed as with a different club.

This is where the same club rhetoric breaks down because no matter which stance you take whether you believe that the football authorities or the law rules on where there is a continuation both sides have shown that there is no continuation in this case.

Edited September 11, 2012 by stonedsailor

[beermonkey]

And this lie hasn't stuck and wont stick. Except in the voided minds of diddy clubbers and the plastics. This is The Rangers we're talking about, son

The club has had a number of owners - Green is the figurehead for the new owners and not about to hand over something he paid for.

And most certainly not on instruction of liewell and his acolytes.

Who would?

The SPL? Only they would try and hold a case against a body they have no jurisdiction over.

But why would he pay for the history if it's the same club ?

either it's not the same club or Cg's just been ripped off for a quid.