youngsy Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Don't worry, I've never taken you serious, just another permarage sevco fan who sat back and did nothing** while the club you claimed to love died. ** did nothing but blame everyone else except for Rangers and it's fans of course Tell us all this Enrico; Just what exactly could the ordinary Rangers fan, shareholder,season ticket holder or debenture bondholder, have done to try and stop the PLC being forced into administration and liquidation when the last two owners before the present regime held 85% of the club shareholding. Murray and Whyte controlled the club when they were in office so please explain what options would the ordinary fan have in that situation. Should the support have boycotted Ibrox depriving the club of much needed income or what would be your strategy. And please don't try and give any of this nonsense about what Celtic fans did because the reality with Celtic is that if McCann had never entered the equation the situation would be the same at Parkhead. McCann was the man that mattered, not your fans no matter how many times you try and convince otherwise. So let's hear it Enrico,what would your strategy have been for our fans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Rumours are the Easdale brothers have a past that would make Craigy Bhoy look like a saint. VAT and TAX fraud are only the tip of the ice berg. While is a popular theme tune for Chucky, I think is appropiate for them.Murray and Whyte controlled the club when they were in office so please explain what options would the ordinary fan have in that situation. Should the support have boycotted Ibrox depriving the club of much needed income or what would be your strategy. They could have asked why Murray is still using EBTs given HMRCs stance on them. What good is bringing in a cheque book manager like Walter Smith going to do to stabilise the club. As for Whyte, they should have been doing there own investigations during takeover talks and getting the information out into the public domain. I doubt someone like Whyte would ever have gotten anywhere near as cosy a ride at Celtic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QPSAFalkirkFirm Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Tell us all this Enrico; Just what exactly could the ordinary Rangers fan, shareholder,season ticket holder or debenture bondholder, have done to try and stop the PLC being forced into administration and liquidation when the last two owners before the present regime held 85% of the club shareholding. Murray and Whyte controlled the club when they were in office so please explain what options would the ordinary fan have in that situation. Should the support have boycotted Ibrox depriving the club of much needed income or what would be your strategy. And please don't try and give any of this nonsense about what Celtic fans did because the reality with Celtic is that if McCann had never entered the equation the situation would be the same at Parkhead. McCann was the man that mattered, not your fans no matter how many times you try and convince otherwise. So let's hear it Enrico,what would your strategy have been for our fans. I've said a few times Youngsy that the fans representatives could have played a bigger part. Of course not every ST holder would have been aware of what was going wrong but these fans leaders were happy to be close to the board to get their own agendas sorted but were either selectively blind or incapable to challenge things at the oldco. For me, these individuals were part of the calamity as much as Murray and Whyte. That's gone now. But do you not think Rangers fans collectively should learn from their lack of good judgement? Does it not bother fans that the only people who seem to be interested in being part of Rangers are snake oil salesmen and tax fiddlers? With regard to the McCann statement, I see your point from a fans view but nevertheless McCann did come; he led and they followed. Rangers don't have a saviour of that calibre anywhere in the system from what I can see. It seems if there are any genuinely wealthy Rangers fans out there they don't see the current situation worth investing in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Only on the 12th A "Once a year Orangeman", eh? No use to man nor beast! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Tell us all this Enrico; Just what exactly could the ordinary Rangers fan, shareholder,season ticket holder or debenture bondholder, have done to try and stop the PLC being forced into administration and liquidation when the last two owners before the present regime held 85% of the club shareholding. Murray and Whyte controlled the club when they were in office so please explain what options would the ordinary fan have in that situation. Should the support have boycotted Ibrox depriving the club of much needed income or what would be your strategy. And please don't try and give any of this nonsense about what Celtic fans did because the reality with Celtic is that if McCann had never entered the equation the situation would be the same at Parkhead. McCann was the man that mattered, not your fans no matter how many times you try and convince otherwise. So let's hear it Enrico,what would your strategy have been for our fans. I've said a few times Youngsy that the fans representatives could have played a bigger part. Of course not every ST holder would have been aware of what was going wrong but these fans leaders were happy to be close to the board to get their own agendas sorted but were either selectively blind or incapable to challenge things at the oldco. For me, these individuals were part of the calamity as much as Murray and Whyte. That's gone now. But do you not think Rangers fans collectively should learn from their lack of good judgement? Does it not bother fans that the only people who seem to be interested in being part of Rangers are snake oil salesmen and tax fiddlers? With regard to the McCann statement, I see your point from a fans view but nevertheless McCann did come; he led and they followed. Rangers don't have a saviour of that calibre anywhere in the system from what I can see. It seems if there are any genuinely wealthy Rangers fans out there they don't see the current situation worth investing in. Are you saying that Craigy "Rangers Saviour" Whyte is not the same calibre as McCann? C'mon, the man has stepped up to the plate twice now, that shows commitment to his cause. Sent from my iPhone 5 Black Diamond using Pie & Bovril mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenockRover Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) ..... That's gone now. But do you not think Rangers fans collectively should learn from their lack of good judgement? Does it not bother fans that the only people who seem to be interested in being part of Rangers are snake oil salesmen and tax fiddlers? Rangers fans philosophy:'Win stuff'. 'Beat THEM'. 'Sign star's' Beyomd that, they can only really concentrate on breathing. ....which is a shame. Edited May 10, 2013 by GreenockRover -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Rangers fans philosophy: 'Win stuff'. 'Beat THEM'. 'Sign star's' Beyomd that, they can only really concentrate in breathing. ....which is a shame. For some you could have left it at 'beat them'. I know people who wanted celtic in the cups last year just for the chance of beating 'them'. The one thing that eased the pain of losing to ICT was the fact we didn't have to play 'Them'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QPSAFalkirkFirm Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Are you saying that Craigy "Rangers Saviour" Whyte is not the same calibre as McCann? C'mon, the man has stepped up to the plate twice now, that shows commitment to his cause. Sent from my iPhone 5 Black Diamond using Pie & Bovril mobile app Was hoping for a decent response from youngsy. Maybe later. Craig Whyte - I can't believe how that rogue even got a meeting with David Murray. The amount of people he's fucked over in Britain in various pension-robbing scams is incredible. He's conned more folk than Tony Blair. Can't think of anything more distasteful to say about someone than that. As for the McCannster...life-long supporter, comes in with a defined plan, does exactly what he said he would do and walks away leaving his favourite team/business venture set-up for ever. What kind of businessman is he with all that honesty, integrity and transparency nonsense? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Are you saying that Craigy "Rangers Saviour" Whyte is not the same calibre as McCann? C'mon, the man has stepped up to the plate twice now, that shows commitment to his cause. Sent from my iPhone 5 Black Diamond using Pie & Bovril mobile app Was hoping for a decent response from youngsy. Maybe later. Craig Whyte - I can't believe how that rogue even got a meeting with David Murray. The amount of people he's fucked over in Britain in various pension-robbing scams is incredible. He's conned more folk than Tony Blair. Can't think of anything more distasteful to say about someone than that. As for the McCannster...life-long supporter, comes in with a defined plan, does exactly what he said he would do and walks away leaving his favourite team/business venture set-up for ever. What kind of businessman is he with all that honesty, integrity and transparency nonsense? A cynical person, not myself of course, might be of the mindset that Murray brought a man of CW's skills in as a fall guy to dump the debt via CVA. When it became obvious the CVA would not work then a cynic might be of the opinion that a second Patsy would be required in order to create the illusion of continuance through a newco whilst planning to return the assets to the original owner via the first patsy through some sort of manufactured legal blunder. Cynics, eh? Sent from my iPhone 5 Black Diamond using Pie and Bovril mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 A cynical person, not myself of course, might be of the mindset that Murray brought a man of CW's skills in as a fall guy to dump the debt via CVA. When it became obvious the CVA would not work then a cynic might be of the opinion that a second Patsy would be required in order to create the illusion of continuance through a newco whilst planning to return the assets to the original owner via the first patsy through some sort of manufactured legal blunder. Cynics, eh? Sent from my iPhone 5 Black Diamond using Pie and Bovril mobile app Of course Murray was well warned about Whyte, his honesty and business background was investigated by a Rangers committee that included permatan Martin Bain. When he delivered his damning conclusions to Murray (don't touch him with a bargepole!) he not just ignored the report but ignored Bain totally after that. He was history from then onwards. Murray wanted out - at any cost. Anyone who paid off Lloyds was ok by him. Even if they had to make the payment with criminally acquired money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I've said a few times Youngsy that the fans representatives could have played a bigger part. Of course not every ST holder would have been aware of what was going wrong but these fans leaders were happy to be close to the board to get their own agendas sorted but were either selectively blind or incapable to challenge things at the oldco. For me, these individuals were part of the calamity as much as Murray and Whyte. That's gone now. But do you not think Rangers fans collectively should learn from their lack of good judgement? Does it not bother fans that the only people who seem to be interested in being part of Rangers are snake oil salesmen and tax fiddlers? With regard to the McCann statement, I see your point from a fans view but nevertheless McCann did come; he led and they followed. Rangers don't have a saviour of that calibre anywhere in the system from what I can see. It seems if there are any genuinely wealthy Rangers fans out there they don't see the current situation worth investing in. The support group leaders that you mention are only there for their own self gratification as regards being around the board,i agree with you on that. What i'm asking Enrico is, as he's banging on about fans doing nothing, what would his solution be for the support to step in and wrest power away from a person that has or had 85% of the shareholding and therefore controlled everything within the club. There was 26,000 shareholders of the PLC holding collectively 15% of the shares, so their voice on all matters of importance was merely a whisper. In effect we were shareholders without real power. The PLC was liquidated to the sum of £56 million, with the EBTcase the estimated liability was £130 million. What chance had any support group have of settling debts of that magnitude.That level of liability is the very reason why Rangers suuporters of wealth wouldn't come near the club when Murray was looking for a buyer,i'm speaking of people such as Jim McColl,whose wealth is there for all to see. The club was then left wide open for crooks such as Whyte to step forward and do what he did,he had full control and no matter how many demonstrations and shouting the support did there was nothing that we could have done. McCann came into Celtic when they were on their knees,in fact i remember Dempsey had to pay £1 million hours before the club was about to have the plug pulled by the bank. McCann,to his credit,had a financial plan laid out over a 5 year period,he had the full intent of making a profit from the club and through financial prudency get the club back on it's feet,because of the financial liability at Ibrox that was never going to happen for Rangers from any individual. So for anyone to say Rangers fans did nothing, the reality is there was really very, very little we could do that would have had any significant impact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearwithme Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Of course Murray was well warned about Whyte, his honesty and business background was investigated by a Rangers committee that included permatan Martin Bain. When he delivered his damning conclusions to Murray (don't touch him with a bargepole!) he not just ignored the report but ignored Bain totally after that. He was history from then onwards. Murray wanted out - at any cost. Anyone who paid off Lloyds was ok by him. Even if they had to make the payment with criminally acquired money. Maybe it was a case of anyone who paid off Lloyds being OK with Lloyds (who had a substantial hold over Murray's companies). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 A cynical person, not myself of course, might be of the mindset that Murray brought a man of CW's skills in as a fall guy to dump the debt via CVA. When it became obvious the CVA would not work then a cynic might be of the opinion that a second Patsy would be required in order to create the illusion of continuance through a newco whilst planning to return the assets to the original owner via the first patsy through some sort of manufactured legal blunder. Cynics, eh? Sent from my iPhone 5 Black Diamond using Pie and Bovril mobile app Of course Murray was well warned about Whyte, his honesty and business background was investigated by a Rangers committee that included permatan Martin Bain. When he delivered his damning conclusions to Murray (don't touch him with a bargepole!) he not just ignored the report but ignored Bain totally after that. He was history from then onwards. Murray wanted out - at any cost. Anyone who paid off Lloyds was ok by him. Even if they had to make the payment with criminally acquired money. Of course I believe the official line, why doubt it? It's not like there's been any deception going on in this saga. My cynical mate however might be of the opinion that CW's "off the radar wealth" was earned from "rearranging" the finances of companies who were in the shite. Cynic Man might even go as far as to say that it was his proffession. Sent from my iPhone 5 Black Diamond using Pie and Bovril mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Still trying to defend Green's comments, this is almost as bad as you thinking celebrating child abuse is okSeems to be ok for some to use the subject for point scoring thou... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 That's why no Rangers fan even tries to have a discussion with them anymore, they're absolute twats and will only want to talk about stuff if it's anti-Rangers.Rangers fan makes a point and he's immediately got hordes of P&Bers shouting him/her down no matter what was in the post. (not as bad as it used it be, seeing as most of the trolls have moved on and only the dregs have remained) In return most Rangers fans have given up trying to debate when any thread concerning Rangers turns into a shltefest. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 That's why no Rangers fan even tries to have a discussion with them anymore, they're absolute twats and will only want to talk about stuff if it's anti-Rangers.Rangers fan makes a point and he's immediately got hordes of P&Bers shouting him/her down no matter what was in the post. (not as bad as it used it be, seeing as most of the trolls have moved on and only the dregs have remained)In return most Rangers fans have given up trying to debate when any thread concerning Rangers turns into a shltefest. Rangers fans don't like to address arguments against their blinkered view, shockerooni. Sent from my iPhone 5 Black Diamond using Pie and Bovril mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) Rangers fan makes a point and he's immediately got hordes of P&Bers shouting him/her down no matter what was in the post. (not as bad as it used it be, seeing as most of the trolls have moved on and only the dregs have remained) In return most Rangers fans have given up trying to debate when any thread concerning Rangers turns into a shltefest. Rangers fans don't like to address arguments against their blinkered view, shockerooni. Sent from my iPhone 5 Black Diamond using Pie and Bovril mobile app Edit----- This isn't quoting, my post below ... Rangers fans have tried repeatedly for the last few years to debate the issues, only to be out numbered and shouted down on every issue. We have tried, others haven't. Edited May 10, 2013 by bennett 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirdcal Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Rangers fans have tried repeatedly for the last few years to debate the issues, only to be out numbered and shouted down on every issue. We have tried, others haven't. some of the more grounded, saner, approachable rangers fans have been able to carry some reasoned debate. other times, and this goes for both sides, it just seems to be a shout down. the problem lies, where the saner rangers fans try to debate with other rangers fans and are tarriered and feathered so to speak,.,. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Not bothered quoting as the codes all screwed. Some of us do try Benny, just like some of you do but there are eejits out there on the wind up. If you rise to their bait like your recent meltdown then they will push further, either grow thicker skin and ignore them or just don't bother with the thread. Sent from my iPhone 5 Black Diamond using Pie and Bovril mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Has war broken out in Glasgow? As ch4's war correspondent is strutting about outside Ibrox alex thomson alex thomson @alextomo 2h @ Rangers connections with the Syrian government, find out on Ch4 news. And yes - Glasgow's always great Hail Hail 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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