Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[shull]

Drenched

[hellbhoy]

Just now, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

That isn't true and is in no way backed by today's ruling.

It might not be backed by the ruling but it most certainly was a factor in chasing down the club. Not a single penny was ever paid back into A PENSION FUND from the interest free loans issued by the club.

[Henrik's tongue]

Mind yon time Pedro stood in a bush and shouted at ****? 

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

Just now, hellbhoy said:

It might not be backed by the ruling but it most certainly was a factor in chasing down the club. Not a single penny was ever paid back into A PENSION FUND from the interest free loans issued by the club.

But Rangers won the case in the first instance before HMRC changed tack. So they might never have been targeted by HMRC but they would still not have been paying all the owed.

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0073-judgment.pdf

Quote

60. It was necessary for the operation of the scheme as the parties intended that the trust administration was lax, not least in the provision of the entire fund of a subtrust to the employee in the form of a loan without taking measures to secure its repayment. When the Jersey regulator caused Equity to tighten up the terms on which a subtrust provided loans, Equity was replaced by the more compliant Trident. See paras 28 and 29 above

The ruling makes no distinction between Trusts set up under Equity and those under Trident. The ruling applies equally despite the more compliant repayment terms.

[hellbhoy]

1 minute ago, Henrik's tongue said:

Mind yon time Pedro stood in a bush and shouted at ****? 

Telling them it's no his fault they booked flights to Cyprus.

[Dindeleux]

Just to add, everyone pointing and laughing at Sevco/ The Rangers are living in a false utopia, they will have the last laugh as there will be no sanctions for their years of cheating.

No they won't.

Their club died, it's the ultimate punishment to be honest. Regardless of whether they have titles stripped or not the club, in its original form, died.

I find the title stripping argument a bit contradictory to the new club argument. If they have 10 titles taken off them will Celtic (and other) fans start to mock the "going for 55" with "going for 45". In my opinion they are going for 1.

I see the Celtic board is as dim as its fans: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40510207

"In 2013, we expressed surprise - shared by many observers and supporters of the game - over the findings of the SPL commission that no competitive or sporting advantage had resulted. Today's decision only reaffirms that view.

"We are sure now that the footballing authorities in Scotland will wish to review this matter. Celtic awaits the outcome of their review."

Whenever has it been wrong for a football club to gain 'competitive advantage'?  Isn't the whole point of a team by choice of players and staff to actually try and gain a sporting advantage?

The bit the grey and green thickets are missing is 'unfair' and that was adequately dealt with by LNS as affirmed by the recent excellent statement from the SFA.

How long will we endure a 'strip the titles' campaign from the moon-howlers?  Adverts is Swiss newspapers incoming.

You been injecting cider into your bloodstream again?

Keep the titles, strip the titles. . . It doesn't really matter.
The proof is now out there. . . Rangers cheated the full of Scottish football during those years. And now it's pretty funny to see the imbeciles that "lead" the new club cheat the current fans.

^^^this

The wee fanny is absolutely desperate for attention!  

It was due to deflection like this that the original club was allowed to wither away and die without any Rangers fans lifting a finger, hope its repeated.




PS - Henriks Tongue please stop spamming the thread.

[Henrik's tongue]

5 minutes ago, Dindeleux said:

 

No they won't.

Their club died, it's the ultimate punishment to be honest. Regardless of whether they have titles stripped or not the club, in its original form, died.

I find the title stripping argument a bit contradictory to the new club argument. If they have 10 titles taken off them will Celtic (and other) fans start to mock the "going for 55" with "going for 45". In my opinion they are going for 1.



You been injecting cider into your bloodstream again?



^^^this



It was due to deflection like this that the original club was allowed to wither away and die without any Rangers fans lifting a finger, hope its repeated.




PS - Henriks Tongue please stop spamming the thread.

 

 will do.

[hellbhoy]

2 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

But Rangers won the case in the first instance before HMRC changed tack. So they might never have been targeted by HMRC but they would still not have been paying all the owed.

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0073-judgment.pdf

The ruling makes no distinction between Trusts set up under Equity and those under Trident. The ruling applies equally despite the more compliant repayment terms.

I haven't read the ruling full yet Jim, but from paragraph 61?

Quote

The expectation of both employer and employee was that the employee would not have to repay the loan while he lived

Seriously? did Rangers think they could get away with that? Here's a loan you don't have to pay back while you live? how is that even deemed a loan ffs?

[hellbhoy]

Legal jargon, ruling and other aside, one thing stands out in bold mile high lettering. Rangers have been legally found out to have cheated, end off. Anything else from this that makes the **** life any more miserable is just gravy to me.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

12 minutes ago, hellbhoy said:

I haven't read the ruling full yet Jim, but from paragraph 61?

Seriously? did Rangers think they could get away with that? Here's a loan you don't have to pay back while you live? how is that even deemed a loan ffs?

The FTT was satisfied that it was a loan. I don't have that ruling to hand but it was a large point of contention in the case.

Was a loan really a loan if there were no terms for repayment?

Rangers won on that point.

 

Point of not paying it back while being alive is that it would count as a debt in the player's estate which would help reduce inheritance/estate taxes. Then after repayment the bereaved family could take another tax free loan from the trust.

#notasham

Edited July 5, 2017 by Jim McLean's Ghost

[theoriginalhedge]

2 hours ago, bennett said:

Wullie mate, you've made a complete kunt of yourself today. It's cheered me up a fair bit so cheers for that.

 

Anyway (retrospectively) improper use of an avoidance scheme will result in BDO getting a bill from HMRC, of which HMRC will receive a portion of around £40m and that's that.

No cheating, no evasion, no title stripping, just life going on as normal.

 

 

 

 

 

Strange how any club trying the same stunt now is deemed to be immoral , cheating and breaking the rules.  It's as if the loophole David Murray found didn't exist at all !!! 

The SFA / SPL/ SPFL really are an incompetent set of blinkered idiots . No further sanctions can be taken because they were compliant in allowing the old Rangers to do what they wanted however immoral it was. 

One big sham resulting in one big cover up to save their own reputations. 

 

[bennett]

4 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

Strange how any club trying the same stunt now is deemed to be immoral , cheating and breaking the rules.  It's as if the loophole David Murray found didn't exist at all !!! 

The SFA / SPL/ SPFL really are an incompetent set of blinkered idiots . No further sanctions can be taken because they were compliant in allowing the old Rangers to do what they wanted however immoral it was. 

One big sham resulting in one big cover up to save their own reputations. 

 

I'm sorry, so sorry....

 

[wastecoatwilly]

4 minutes ago, bennett said:

I'm sorry, so sorry....

 

once a ger always a ger shit on the queens heed and proud 

[The OP]

Clearly Rangers misrepresented the nature of the player's contracts in their player registrations by failing to mention the side letters. Whether the SFA wants to void the result of any games those players featured in is up to them.

However, today's judgment isn't concerned with that and doesn't interfere with the FTT's assessment that the EBTs and side letters described a loan despite the fact they clearly weren't loans by any common sense interpretation. In that sense very little has changed other than a reiteration being made by the highest court in the land that disguising remuneration as loans to avoid tax is dodgy as f**k.

In any event, all of this shit contributed to the death of Rangers and the current comedy tribute act so WGAF really. 

[LinkinFighter]

Imagine if this had happened to anyone else in scottish football. They'd never have gotten off so lightly.

[pozbaird]

Unless you are of a Sevconian leaning, the widely held view of fans on here seems to be that today's supreme court ruling once and for all proves that deadco Rangers won 14 trophies using many players they wouldn't otherwise have been able to afford. It is financial doping, cheating, and they won these 14 trophies at the expense of other Scottish clubs. 

Correct so far, in broad brush stroke terms? The view also seems to be that the SFA / SPFL - 'the authorities' - should be looking at stripping titles, putting asterisks against 14 trophy wins, or some sort of retrospective action against the deadco cheats. We are looking at individuals such as Doncaster and Regan to do something, or to resign on the spot.

Surely the clubs who form it, are in reality the SPFL, so if they feel strongly about this, the clubs themselves should collectively do something about the years of deadco doping? It isn't down to a board, or an individual - it's down to Dundee, Hearts, Livingston, Falkirk... all of em'. To speak with one voice and demand 'justice'.

Want my opinion? None of them will utter a peep. Not one single Scottish club will demand retrospective action...except one. Lawell, who will be delighting in rattling Sevco's cage for a while and noising them up about their tainted titles and cup wins financed by Carol Vorderman at Ocean Finance. When push comes to shove though, will Lawell and Celtic really do it? Really push for titles to be stripped? Really go after it... or will they just enjoy this initial wind em' up about it period, then quietly let it go, and crack on with winning the title every year for the next, oh, 25 years or so?

Will Lawell really risk having his windows panned in, his car paintwork keyed with sectarian abuse, or being confronted in public by hacked-off deadco fans if he really goes after their titles in earnest? I think Celtic are simply loving this period of lording it up over 'them', but when it gets real, will let it go.

[Sheep77]

Cheating unwashed ****  should be stripped off all 14 trophys 

[Sheep77]

So 9 in a row never happened for the **** 

[hellbhoy]

1 hour ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

The FTT was satisfied that it was a loan. I don't have that ruling to hand but it was a large point of contention in the case.

Was a loan really a loan if there were no terms for repayment?

Rangers won on that point.

 

Point of not paying it back while being alive is that it would count as a debt in the player's estate which would help reduce inheritance/estate taxes. Then after repayment the bereaved family could take another tax free loan from the trust.

#notasham

JIm?, what is actually your point here? Finally as we all know and hoped for, Rangers FC PLC have been found guilty of abusing a legal pension scheme with benefits to bribe players to play for them they otherwise couldn't have afforded, and it almost looks like you are defending their crime by saying it's not a sham???

It has been found out to be a sham hasn't it? The FTT & the UTT outcomes do not even matter one jot now other than they were previously contested outcomes.

[hellbhoy]

26 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Unless you are of a Sevconian leaning, the widely held view of fans on here seems to be that today's supreme court ruling once and for all proves that deadco Rangers won 14 trophies using many players they wouldn't otherwise have been able to afford. It is financial doping, cheating, and they won these 14 trophies at the expense of other Scottish clubs. 

Correct so far, in broad brush stroke terms? The view also seems to be that the SFA / SPFL - 'the authorities' - should be looking at stripping titles, putting asterisks against 14 trophy wins, or some sort of retrospective action against the deadco cheats. We are looking at individuals such as Doncaster and Regan to do something, or to resign on the spot.

Surely the clubs who form it, are in reality the SPFL, so if they feel strongly about this, the clubs themselves should collectively do something about the years of deadco doping? It isn't down to a board, or an individual - it's down to Dundee, Hearts, Livingston, Falkirk... all of em'. To speak with one voice and demand 'justice'.

Want my opinion? None of them will utter a peep. Not one single Scottish club will demand retrospective action...except one. Lawell, who will be delighting in rattling Sevco's cage for a while and noising them up about their tainted titles and cup wins financed by Carol Vorderman at Ocean Finance. When push comes to shove though, will Lawell and Celtic really do it? Really push for titles to be stripped? Really go after it... or will they just enjoy this initial wind em' up about it period, then quietly let it go, and crack on with winning the title every year for the next, oh, 25 years or so?

Will Lawell really risk having his windows panned in, his car paintwork keyed with sectarian abuse, or being confronted in public by hacked-off deadco fans if he really goes after their titles in earnest? I think Celtic are simply loving this period of lording it up over 'them', but when it gets real, will let it go.

Welcome home Poz.