Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Double Jack D]

I think the The Rangers representation on here shows clearly why BDO must insist on a name change for the newco. 40 odd thousand conned into buying season tickets for a brand new club based on the lie that it's a continuation of Rangers Plc(IL).

Time to clear up the confusion.

Also quite amusing that they think that courts of law would entertain an appeal on a professional legal judgement because of which team the lawyer/ judge supports. Only the Old Firm could conjur up such a scenario

[No8.]

If the Law Society states it's not a conflict of interest .. good enough for me.

Now unless you have something more substantial than hot air and rumours .. run along ..

Oh ..

this quote is from elsewhere but well known information .. don't tell me you do not know about it.

As HM do not make any judgement, just prepare and present the facts and evidence to the Commission there is no conflict .. the Independent Commission is taking the role in judging guilt or innocence .. what's your bet on the outcome?

His wee asides about your pet puppet in the SFA is not the substance of the piece; I do credit you with the ability to understand that

Edit: Why is it you always end up having to defend Bennet's idiotic posts while he scurries off ... ?

I removed the trolling remark as I realised that was uncalled for and had not realised Bennett had walked away ...

Anybody who claims Harper and McLeod would be impartial in this enquiry is either at the wind up or a fucking Idiot.

It was an absolutely ridiculous decision by Lawwell to appoint them in the first place. I actually believe Lawwell feels after his manoeuverings last year that he is almost untouchable within Scottish football. With the weak leadership he helped to install within the SFA he could possibly be correct.

[zurcher]

What i would say it that the SPL`s investigation into EBT / Dual Contracts is the big one, the other outstanding issues like liquidation, Fraud Investigations and the BTC are interesting but actually of little consequence now, some may argue that the liquidation could end up with assets being resold that have already been transferred but I dont see BDO doing this like you say they are far more likely to go after easier assets directly from the previous owners and i wish them success in this quest

Not quite true, but I agree with the point. The "easy" assets are those of Sevco, there's no hiding a big feckin stadium, training facilities, other land and sellable staff. Going after the assets of a couple of crooks* like Murray and Whyte will most definitely not be easy, assets will be hidden in obscure mazes of companies which own companies which own companies, and will be very difficult and costly to track down. The easy option, technically, financially and legally speaking, will most definitely be to try to reposses the assets of Sevco. Now whether this is possible given the mass outrage this would cause among Sevco fans is another matter.

Likewise with the EBT/BTC, going after individuals who benefitted might seem like the sensible thing, but many, many costly cases for small returns is not a successful way to do this, hence why the responsibility for this generally lies with the employer.

*alleged

So back to the EBT / Dual Contracts, the investigation needs to be squeaky clean, if the slightest little bit of bias is shown in this process then Rangers lawyers will pounce on this and it will likely do more harm than good to those in the "I want them found guilty camp" if there is a hint of bias then I have no doubt that Rangers would take the case to the high court and probably win

This is fantasy though, and a nice example of how the old firm fan's brain works - "here they cnuts are Septic's lawyers, therefore they MUST be Septic fans, therefore they MUST hate us and be pure bigoted against us, therefore there MUST be bias and conflict of interest". They're lawyers and regardless of what fans see as bias, the fact they prevuiously did a bit of work for the other cheek does not make them Sevco hating fiends.

I don't mean that to insult you by the way, I may not post here that often but I do follow (follow) and you're definitely the most sensible of the blue cheek, I just mean with regards the attitude of fans in general

For those wanting title stripping, I cant see it, what possible advantage is there for the SPL with this route? cash is much more beneficial for them and they will argue that this will benefit the game moving forward

This I'd agree with 100%, and I don^'t actually care at all whether titles are stripped or not, if they're found guilty of cheating by fielding inelligible players through dodgy side contracts, then what's the point in stripping a few titles off a dead club, just the embarrassment of being found guilty of many years of cheating is enough. Unless of course Sevco continue this rubbeesh about 54 and counting. Leave Rangers (dead) with their 54 titles and Sevco can start anew with no need to strip anyone of anything.

[Bookies Love Me]

Anybody who claims Harper and McLeod would be impartial in this enquiry is either at the wind up or a fucking Idiot.

It was an absolutely ridiculous decision by Lawwell to appoint them in the first place. I actually believe Lawwell feels after his manoeuverings last year that he is almost untouchable within Scottish football. With the weak leadership he helped to install within the SFA he could possibly be correct.

What difference does it make if H&M are not impartial???

"Don't send that sniffer dog into that druggie's house. That's being impartial so it is."

H&M are sent in to FIND any instances of wrongdoing, compile a report, then send said report to an INDEPENDENT COMMISSION, for that commission to act on the information.

If there is wrongdoing they'll find it, if there is no wrongdoing, what's your problem?

It seems that all you, and your like minded supporters, want is another fudge merchant to come in and sweep everything under the carpet. So you can carry on as if nothing has happened and blame everyone else's agenda for the state your club is in.

You send a terrier in to chase a rat, you don't send in a blind donkey.

Before you start messing with this. Yes, terrier is spelt correctly.

[Happy Buddie]

What i would say it that the SPL`s investigation into EBT / Dual Contracts is the big one, the other outstanding issues like liquidation, Fraud Investigations and the BTC are interesting but actually of little consequence now, some may argue that the liquidation could end up with assets being resold that have already been transferred but I dont see BDO doing this like you say they are far more likely to go after easier assets directly from the previous owners and i wish them success in this quest

So back to the EBT / Dual Contracts, the investigation needs to be squeaky clean, if the slightest little bit of bias is shown in this process then Rangers lawyers will pounce on this and it will likely do more harm than good to those in the "I want them found guilty camp" if there is a hint of bias then I have no doubt that Rangers would take the case to the high court and probably win

I have no idea what the result of the case will be, the most likely outcome is a deal being struck with Rangers being offered some financial penalty spread out over a number of years which would effectively cut there capacity to challenge for the honours for a long time, the amount of financial penalty will more than likely be based on how strong the tribunal finds Rangers guilty (if at all)

For those wanting title stripping, I cant see it, what possible advantage is there for the SPL with this route? cash is much more beneficial for them and they will argue that this will benefit the game moving forward

Cash taken from Rangers under this arrangement will benefit the SPL teams and some may see it as justice but I fear that Celtics monopoly on the league will last for 10 years or even more

I have tried my best to take my Rangers hat off here, of course as a Rangers fan then I dont want them found guilty and I hope this is the case but I also have to prepare for the other possibility

And quite where are The Rangers going to get the funds to allow that kind of payback? They already appear to be paying over the odds for their current position in Div 3, and most folk seem to think their current business plan is untenable, so how could they afford to compensate the SPL for their wrongdoings, yet ensure back-to-back promotions to be in the SPL in 3 years' time? Or will financial penalties be subject to the same skewing of the game as the Old Rangers had and they won't kick in until Sevco are back in their "rightful" position . I would imagine the penalties would have to be very substantial, the punishment fits the crime and all that, anybody any thoughts on what they should be? 50% of the assumed financial gain of winning the SPL, participation in CL, etc over 11 years? Any ideas on what that would be?

Edited September 5, 2012 by Happy Buddie

[zurcher]

Anybody who claims Harper and McLeod would be impartial in this enquiry is either at the wind up or a fucking Idiot.

It was an absolutely ridiculous decision by Lawwell to appoint them in the first place. I actually believe Lawwell feels after his manoeuverings last year that he is almost untouchable within Scottish football. With the weak leadership he helped to install within the SFA he could possibly be correct.

I've got an idea why don't we get Donald Findlay to investigate? Then he can sing about being up to his knees in f""""n blood to the SFA when he hands over his report stating: "everything fine, nothing to see here, no surrender!" and walk off puffing his pipe. That would keep the Sevco fans happy wouldn't it?

As I stated above, the fact that H&M previously did some work for another club which is a rival is of no consequence whatsoever. Do you want to vet every single law firm in Scotland to see if there are Celtic fans employed there and if so, then they can be ruled out of the enquiry? It's utterly ridiculous

[~~~]

Anybody who claims Harper and McLeod would be impartial in this enquiry is either at the wind up or a fucking Idiot.

It was an absolutely ridiculous decision by Lawwell to appoint them in the first place. I actually believe Lawwell feels after his manoeuverings last year that he is almost untouchable within Scottish football. With the weak leadership he helped to install within the SFA he could possibly be correct.

Explain me us why they would not be impartial?

Just because Celtic used them in the past?

Celtic have used Strathclyde Police in the past, does this mean they also cannot be impartial when dealing with anything Rangers/Sevco related?

[No8.]

I've got an idea why don't we get Donald Findlay to investigate? Then he can sing about being up to his knees in f""""n blood to the SFA when he hands over his report stating: "everything fine, nothing to see here, no surrender!" and walk off puffing his pipe. That would keep the Sevco fans happy wouldn't it?

As I stated above, the fact that H&M previously did some work for another club which is a rival is of no consequence whatsoever. Do you want to vet every single law firm in Scotland to see if there are Celtic fans employed there and if so, then they can be ruled out of the enquiry? It's utterly ridiculous

You have just proven my argument. It would be equally ridiculous to send in Donald Findlay as he would not be impartial...Sending in Celtics lawyers was a dreadful decision. It leaves the SFA / SPL open to accusations of bias.

Trying to play down the connection between Harper and McLeod and Celtic does your argument no favours at all. Lawwells daughter was doing work experience there recently.

I cant believe anybody believes they would be impartial

Edit to add...The words from the impartial lawyer that he screamed across a table at Charles Green...

"If you b*****ds have been cheating for 11 years you deserve to lose titles" The words of Harper Mcleod's SPL lawyer Rod McKenzie.

And here's me thinking they were only to gather evidence in an impartial way...Looks to me Rod thinks he is judge and jury

Edited September 5, 2012 by No8.

[No8.]

Again it's entirely irrelevant .. as you are fast becoming (It's like Bendarroch has hijacked all their accounts)

What exactly is wrong with that statement apart from the fact he swore .. (allegedly) ?

Are you being serious!!!!!

Your club forced a referee out the game for getting a decision CORRECT.

Your club forced the referees chief out because of a harmless joke.

You cannot seriously believe the appointment of Harper and McLeod was the correct decision. If you cannot see that they are leaving themself wide open to accusations of bias then i despair for you.

Btw comparing me to Bendarroch is no insult.

[No8.]

What has the above got to do with anything .. even as whataboutery it's a complete fail ...

We have already addressed the issue of bias several times over .. go read it and try to comprehend. It makes not a blind bit of difference whether they are biased or not.

However I would suggest you go raise some funds with your fellow bears (and RFFF) and instruct a top-notch lawyer to fight your case on this basis seeing as you feel so strongly about it .. then let us all know on here how you get on ...

In fact if you get started now .. you can update us with your QC's opinion very soon .. I'm sure the whole of the P&B members would love to hear this !!!

I don't need to read what people like you think on whether or not celtics lawyers are going to be biased in an investigation that will directly affect celtic

[~~~]

You have just proven my argument. It would be equally ridiculous to send in Donald Findlay as he would not be impartial...Sending in Celtics lawyers was a dreadful decision. It leaves the SFA / SPL open to accusations of bias.

Trying to play down the connection between Harper and McLeod and Celtic does your argument no favours at all. Lawwells daughter was doing work experience there recently.

I cant believe anybody believes they would be impartial

Edit to add...The words from the impartial lawyer that he screamed across a table at Charles Green...

"If you b*****ds have been cheating for 11 years you deserve to lose titles" The words of Harper Mcleod's SPL lawyer Rod McKenzie.

And here's me thinking they were only to gather evidence in an impartial way...Looks to me Rod thinks he is judge and jury

Is there any proof of this or it is another urban myth from the sevco loyal?

I just struggle to believe a solicitor (doesnt matter what team he supports) would be "screaming" and swearing to someone at a meeting.

[~~~]

Are you being serious!!!!!

Your club forced a referee out the game for getting a decision CORRECT.

Your club forced the referees chief out because of a harmless joke.

You cannot seriously believe the appointment of Harper and McLeod was the correct decision. If you cannot see that they are leaving themself wide open to accusations of bias then i despair for you.

Btw comparing me to Bendarroch is no insult.

Both are myths and you know it.

I expected better from you No.8

[No8.]

Is there any proof of this or it is another urban myth from the sevco loyal?

I just struggle to believe a solicitor (doesnt matter what team he supports) would be "screaming" and swearing to someone at a meeting.

I thought it was widely reported at the time...then again there has been so much drivel posted/printed/broadcast on various subjects referring to Rangers it is difficult to keep up.

As for Dhenbhoy....You have not answered the question...Do you think appointing celtics lawyers to investigate an issue that celtic have an interest in was a wise decision? Can you honestly not see that the SFA/SPL have left themself open to accusations of bias?

Edit to add...I just want to add if they had employed Donald Findlay i would be saying exactly the same. In situations like this you have to do your level best to make sure everything is above board. If you cannot see this then there is little hope

Edited September 5, 2012 by No8.

[FinnesTON]

I've got an idea why don't we get Donald Findlay to investigate? Then he can sing about being up to his knees in f""""n blood to the SFA when he hands over his report stating: "everything fine, nothing to see here, no surrender!" and walk off puffing his pipe. That would keep the Sevco fans happy wouldn't it?

As I stated above, the fact that H&M previously did some work for another club which is a rival is of no consequence whatsoever. Do you want to vet every single law firm in Scotland to see if there are Celtic fans employed there and if so, then they can be ruled out of the enquiry? It's utterly ridiculous

He would no doubt call a conflict of interest and decline. Is anyone wondering how then can Haudit & Daudit not be a conflict of interest also if we say that HM ( who I used at one time so I better declare that as a conflict of interest) surely working for CW previous companies and coming in as administrators.

It is all very sad but predictable one of the ugly sister's supporters in denial using their own petty agendas and believing the rest of the universe must either side with them or be the enemy.

Why ? All this is just about childish bragging and inane oneupmanship. If there was no evidence of any wrongdoing it would have ended with HM's report, now it will be up to the independent tribuneral to decide on that evidence. Simple No rumours just hard evidence.

All the talk about fines but don't take our titles, if there is guilt why would you want those honours tainting your clubs history ? I agree about BDO need to get in and seperate the identity of oldco and newco.

[No8.]

I've already answered this several times over and posted a clarification in case you didn't get it ... I don't see the point in repeating it yet again. I'd go look and read it .. If you ask me to post it again .. your just proving my point about you.

So answer the question .. since you are 100% sure you are correct are you going to rally the bears, raise some funds and instruct a legal team to ensure your club is protected .. or are you just going to let them get away with it?

I have been deliberately avoiding this thread for a few days..Mostly i might add because of the nonsense you have repeatedly posted about QCs...rallying the troops...RFFF etc,

You simply don't get it obviously. It is not a matter if they will be biased..it is the fact they are celtics club lawyers involved in a case that directly affects celitc which leaves them open to accusations of bias.

If it was Donald Findlay investigating this issue would you be happy with that appointment?

[Bendarroch]

Your argument is ridiculous and has no basis in law

Oh, you're a legal expert as well I see? We know already of your financial whizz-kiddery

Sometimes (and who could seriously dispute this) the comedy value on this thread is worth it's weight in maris pipers.

[No8.]

If you apply what I said about HM and reverse the situation .. celtic under investigation .. then you know my answer in regards to Donald .. it's exactly the same.

Poachers make the best gamekeepers ..

If there is anything to uncover then Donald is the man to do it .. As long as their is an Independent Tribunal to hear the case and evidence and we are allowed to challenge the evidence .. then there is no conflict of interest.

Your argument is ridiculous and has no basis in law .. as you well know. If not and you are a man of conviction then you should gather your troops and fund a legal challenge .. I certainly would if it was my club.

Or are you not convinced your right ?

Once more and slowly...I am not claiming they are/will be biased. I am saying it was a ridiculous decision to appoint them as many will believe they are biased and no matter what they find their connections to celtic will be held against them.

If you would welcome Donald Findlay..out of all the legal experts in the country..to be put in charge of an investigation into celtic you are off your tiny little head

[PeeTeeJag]

And still the fans of SevCo and Celtic wonder why we despair of them both.

Very few places in the world can be like Glasgow where this pish goes on.

"Oh we can't have him investigating because he went out with a girl from Parkhead in 1985." "He'll only side with SevCo because his great, great grandfather had a paper round in Govan."

Even if the lawyer turned out to be a Jags fan he would still get accused of biased by one of the cheeks.

FFS people let's just get this sorted out once and for all and move on.

You do realise this is 2012 and only those people that shouldn't be allowed out on their own still care which foot you kick with?

[zurcher]

You have just proven my argument. It would be equally ridiculous to send in Donald Findlay as he would not be impartial...Sending in Celtics lawyers was a dreadful decision. It leaves the SFA / SPL open to accusations of bias.

Trying to play down the connection between Harper and McLeod and Celtic does your argument no favours at all. Lawwells daughter was doing work experience there recently.

I cant believe anybody believes they would be impartial

Edit to add...The words from the impartial lawyer that he screamed across a table at Charles Green...

"If you b*****ds have been cheating for 11 years you deserve to lose titles" The words of Harper Mcleod's SPL lawyer Rod McKenzie.

And here's me thinking they were only to gather evidence in an impartial way...Looks to me Rod thinks he is judge and jury

Jesus, firstly I was joking in that only someone who is as obviously a *Rangers Man* as Findlay would pass the bias test for youse lot; and secondly I have not proven your point, Findlay would obviously have a conflict of interest here firstly as a former Rangers director, secondly as a known and vocal Ranger, Orangeman, Bigot etc who thinks it's fine to sing sectarian songs in public places.

Being an Rangers director who happens to be a solicitor and being a solicitor who works for Rangers are not one and the same thing. And Lawwell's daughter was doing work experience was she? Well they must all be ******s then eh? Jesus man listen to yourself, at worst that's a wee bit of neportism, doing a little favour to give the daughter of a client a short internship, but it displays no bias whatsoever. What if it turned out they also employed Donald Findlay's son on an internship? Would that make you think they were any less biased? No because it's utterly irrelevant.

I can't believe you're actually serious here.

[stonedsailor]

Once more and slowly...I am not claiming they are/will be biased. I am saying it was a ridiculous decision to appoint them as many will believe they are biased and no matter what they find their connections to celtic will be held against them.

If you would welcome Donald Findlay..out of all the legal experts in the country..to be put in charge of an investigation into celtic you are off your tiny little head

No8, look at it this way, if there's nothing to find it does not matter who investigates they won't find anyything. Unless you are trying to give the allusion that these solicitors are likely to criminally fake evidence then they are the best people for the job, they have extra motivation to find the evidence if it has been buried deep. When the SPL announced that Rangers had a case to answer they made the allegation, noww they need to get the most motivated and capable group to proove their case.