Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Bairnforever1992]

Rangers' final tax bill tops £94m, Duff and Phelps reveals

[Jacksgranda]

I've shamelessly copied this from Scottish football monitor, but its worth reading.

Here's What You Could Have Bought

Recently, Duff and Phelps released their final report to the creditors of Rangers Football Club. In amongst several other eye watering amounts, D&P revealed that the total amount HMRC are pursuing Rangers for is £94,426,217.22 (don't forget the 22p). Now, to put that into context, I calculated that to be the equivalent value of five Tore Andre Flo's (at £12m each), three Paul Gascoigne's (at £4.3m each), two Giovanni Van Bronckhorst's (at £5m each), one Artur Numan (at £4.5m) and still over £7m cash (perhaps for a partridge in a pear tree). For the record, these figures are those Rangers paid when purchasing the players.

Now, let me give you a few examples which I feel highlight the true cost of Rangers' tax evasion and financial doping.

The highest figure Celtic have ever paid for a player is £6 million for Chris Sutton. With the money Rangers stole from the taxpayer over the years, Celtic could have bought fifteen Chris Sutton's, and still have had enough left over for a few Henrik Larsson's.

The highest fee Aberdeen have ever paid for a player is £1m (for Paul Bernard). With the amount of money Rangers saved, Aberdeen could have bought thirty four Paul Bernard's, and Fernando Torres.

In 1995, Dundee United signed Steven Pressley for £750,000. With an extra £94m, they could have signed Cristiano Ronaldo and nineteen Steven Pressley's.

In 2006, Hearts paid £850,000 for Mirsad Beslija from Racing Genk. If they'd stolen an equivalent sum of money as Rangers, this could have attracted Kaka as well as several others to Tynecastle (theoretically speaking).

Not sure if 34 Paul Bernards would be a good thing....

[stonedsailor]

This is bound to have been covered already but has anyone else noticed that Sevco are breaking even the smallest promises they have made to the former Rangers fans. There was this , why would that be forgotten about? Green trying to butter up Murray earlier in the week too? It's only a wee promise, I suppose, but if he cares that much about them you'd think he'd keep the wee promises to keep up the pretense. Then there's this, have Sevco even omitted the number 12 shirt, even once, in their short history?

At times I feel sorry for the deluded ones, still following like sheeple even when Green reneges on promises made to honour the ones he is fleecing. The man's a genius.

Edited October 1, 2012 by stonedsailor

[Dunning1874]

Direct Matchday Costs - Away games 55,211

Not hugely relevant in the grand scheme of things, but I'd like to know how much of that £55K was spent on staying in hotels for games against teams an hour away.

[Dunning1874]

This is bound to have been covered already but has anyone else noticed that Sevco are breaking even the smallest promises they have made to the former Rangers fans. There was this , why would that be forgotten about? Green trying to butter up Murray earlier in the week too? It's only a wee promise, I suppose, but if he cares that much about them you'd think he'd keep the wee promises to keep up the pretense. Then there's this, have Sevco even omitted the number 12 shirt, even once, in their short history?

At times I feel sorry for the deluded ones, still following like sheeple even when Green reneges on promises made to honour the ones he is fleecing. The man's a genius.

IIRC you can't pick and choose the numbers you use for subs in the SFL; they have to use number 12.

[stonedsailor]

IIRC you can't pick and choose the numbers you use for subs in the SFL; they have to use number 12.

No they don't, they can use the number thirteen but they'd rather pander to some wishy washy superstition than honour a promise made to fans to get them onside. Great loyalty that, eh?

[bennett]

IIRC you can't pick and choose the numbers you use for subs in the SFL; they have to use number 12.

Exactly but that wont matter to old Stoney, when it comes to Rangers then facts don't come in to it with him.

[King Kong Bundy]

They should have been thrown out of Scottish football in the summer - what a wasted opportunity.

[stonedsailor]

Exactly but that wont matter to old Stoney, when it comes to Rangers then facts don't come in to it with him.

Can you or can you not use the number thirteen?

[HibeeJibee]

Not hugely relevant in the grand scheme of things, but I'd like to know how much of that £55K was spent on staying in hotels for games against teams an hour away.

That might actually be buses, food, etc.?

It's under "direct matchday costs away games" - further down the column is a seperate £53k for "player accomodation". Unless the latter is housing.

Also £36k on "postage / stationary" with a further £70k listed on the previous page for "postage, stationary / statutory reports".

£59k on "waste disposal".

£53k on "media costs".

£68k on "audio-visual costs".

£141k on media consultancy on the previous page - to MediaHouse and Spreckley (breakdown in appendix).

Although I assume both saw Rangers get a cut of ticket sales, the 'Charity Match' (Milan game?) cost £194k and the 'Friendly Match' (Linfield?) cost £15k.

Edited October 1, 2012 by HibeeJibee

[zurcher]

I have lifted this from the SPL 2 other EBT thread as it is related to this thread on EBT's

Firstly Alex Rae just dances around how the EBT pension fund scam was implemented and also quotes often the infamous they are legal pish ! I'd also like to add why players on tens of thousands of pounds a week feel the need to apply for a loan ? aren't they being paid enough already ?.

I've mentioned this before and will mention it again just to highlight how cheaply and easily Murray could have won the EBT case against HMRC if he wasn't so fucking cocky about abusing a pension fund and thought he'd never get caught out !.

I do not know how many loans were handed out and when but if someone knows then please do the proper math for me and put in total how cheaply could have saved Rangers PLC from liquidation.

If Murray had just paid back in one solitary £1 each year ! for each loan ! after the loan was handed out he could have easily quashed any investigation The loan would be classed as a loan and was being serviced and being paid back,no matter by how much and would have been thrown out of court on a technicality because the loan was being repaid even at a minute level of £1 a year minimum.

Say for instance if there was 365 loans paid out so that's a measly £365 a year to be paid into all the EBT loans ! then possibly multiply it by 10 at minimum ! and you get £3,650 ! and if my math was correct then this is the paltry amount of money that would have saved The Rangers Football Club PLC from liquidation.

This is how cheaply Murray could have avoided this HMRC and EBT fiasco if he hadn't been so cocky and just paid at least £1 a year in each account,and if someone can do the math then we can find out how much Murray only needed to put back actually and have a right old giggle that this amount of money could have saved the club from oblivion.

It's astonishing that even such a small amount of money like £3,650 could have saved Rangers

Stop confusing matters around the EBT, I've explained it a few times before and I will try to do so again. Firstly, it's feck all like a pension, it may take advantage of pension rules, but the only way in which it's similar is that the payments come from your employer and no tax is paid on them.

It can be used legitimately, and is used in fact, as a company sharesave scheme, but that's generally only used as it's against market rules to sell shares under their value, so companies buy them via the trust and place them in trust for their employees at a beneficial rate, all above board and open, all documented and well controlled. An EBT the way Rangers used it, and the way all other tax dodgers use it, is a managed fund in the name of the actual employee (possibly just a numbered reference, but that's irrelevant as it is tied to the employee in some way), to which money is added at regular intervals by the employer, usually in the form of monthly payments when the salaries are due.

For example -

Person A works as a contractor for Company A, his employer (Company Z) bills Company A 10k for a month's work, as per the agreement between companies A and Z, and this is paid. Company Z then pays 5k to Person A's account as salary, and 5k to his Trust. So far, so legal-ish.

Now the first tricky part - The agreement between Person A and Company Z will be in the form of two contracts, one showing the 5k per month which is what he'll be showing when he does his tax returns, and one showing 10k a month which he most definitely will not.

Second tricky part - the other 5k per month going into the trust most definitely belongs to Person A and is nothing to do with Company Z (or Company A for that matter) once it's there, hence why it's utterly irrelevant whether Murray did or didn't pay back 1 pound or 100 pounds or 1 pence towards the "loans". There is no loan, it's just weak legalese for give me my money but make sure I don't have to declare it to the taxman.

The employees access these funds by submitting a loan request to the trust manager who will send the money wherever they want it to go and ask no questions. In some cases all it'll take is a phone call, in some they'll ask for a paper "loan application" in an attempt at arse covering, but there is complicit agreement that this "loan" will never be repaid. It is just allowing Person A to access money which belongs to him, which has been paid from his employer and for which no tax or deductions have ever been applied (save maybe a management fee from the trust manager).

This above is the way in which it usually works, but in the case of Rangers there is no middle man and the company set them up themselves. They were aware this was certainly on shaky legal ground when it was set up, they ALMOST CERTAINLY used dual contracts, and the players may eventually be hit with large tax bills, the British based ones anyway. If I was Dodds, Rae or any of the rest of them I'd be saying absolutely nowt about it, but the fact these clowns are openly discussing it means Rangers didn't even bother trying to explain it to them past "here's what we'll pay you as salary, and here's what we'll pay you into your trust which you then get by speaking to this guy".

Now Rangers, as the employer here, is responsible for all deductions on payments made to staff, hence why they are now twitching on the mortuary table after being consumed by the tax bill, and some of the ex-players and staff might be facing bankruptcy hearings themselves soon enough if they haven't got the cash to pay several years worth of backdated tax bills and interest.

So please, stop referring to the EBT as a pension and confusing the issue by suggesting that payments could be made back to the offshore bank for them, that's never going to happen, there is no way to do this at all and in fact, there is no loan. HMRC decided many years ago these were not compatible with UK tax law and as such have been chasing companies down. If you ran one but were willing to pay the tax owed, then no problem, just Rangers lived so far beyond their means that the heft of the outstanding tax destroyed them, not to mention Whyte's use of employee deductions as petty cash too, obviously.

[bennett]

Can you or can you not use the number thirteen?

What a stupid thing to say

You do also realise it was while the oldco was administration that the claim was made, nothing to do with uncle Charlie.

Now thats two rookie errors from you on this subject, so run along now.

[Bairnforever1992]

It doesn't matter with the oldco newco debate, it is the same Club!

So ha fucking ha!

Remember the Independent tribunal commission when the SPL view Rangers 2012 PLC as Rangers? So there you go run along now you're club is fucked!

Edited October 1, 2012 by Bairnforever1992

[Bendarroch]

BENDY THE BLINKERED ORC IN DEFENCE OF THE 'BLEEDIN' OBVIOUS ....... shocker !!!

There's nothing to defend. The QOTS diddy jumped to a ridiculous conclusion that was deserving of scorn.

We could all do it. For example;

1. Plastics + tricolour = terrorist.

2. Regional team + chip on shoulder = diddy club.

3. Hivs fan + needle = junkie.

4. Aberdeen fan + flock of sheep = pimp.

Hmm. Mibbe there's more mileage in the QOTS formula than I gave him credit for.

[Itwiznaeme]

They should have been thrown out of Scottish football in the summer - what a wasted opportunity.

I seriously doubt that anyone with scruples today who now knows even half of the full extent to which the unscrupulous Rangers had been cheating (fielding ineligible players for over a decade), racking up unsustainable debts, and not paying its financial dues, debts and taxes will disagree with you. The only persons who would disagree with you are cheats or/& bigots and ignorant deluded fools just as many of those who ran/run and played for the old and new Rangers are and always have been.

Shyster controlled corporate media outlets in Scotland and those employed by shysters who were/are worried about losing their jobs as yellow journalists are the one and only entity that saved the cheating b*****ds from being thrown out of Scottish football for ever.

[stonedsailor]

What a stupid thing to say

You do also realise it was while the oldco was administration that the claim was made, nothing to do with uncle Charlie.

Now thats two rookie errors from you on this subject, so run along now.

Why exactly is it a stupid thing to say? The number thirteen can be used on shirts therefore there is no problem in retiring the number twelve. Where did I say it was Green who made the promise? Green was the one who broke the promise! You lot are so keen to throw your money at him but when it comes down to even just the simple things he is stiffing you. You deserve everything you get, all of you.

Edited October 1, 2012 by stonedsailor

[Bendarroch]

It doesn't matter with the oldco newco debate, it is the same Club!

So ha fucking ha!

I think your posts are really wonderful. As if Homer himself managed to stumble onto a fitba forum and jumped right in.

You and Homer have much the same innocent bewilderment that's so endearing. It's really a delight not to absolutely know if you are a piss taking genius or just the thickest c**t on the internet.

Och, it's the latter of course, but it's fun to pretend you might actually be in control of your thoughts.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Bendarroch

[Bairnforever1992]

[bennett]

Why exactly is it a stupid thing to say? The number thirteen can be used on shirts therefore there is no problem in retiring the number twelve. Where did I say it was Green who made the promise? Green was the one who broke the promise! You lot are so keen to throw your money at him but when it comes down to even just the simple things he is stiffing you. You deserve everything you get, all of you.

It's been pointed out to you that the SFL don't use squad numbers --- not that hard to work out.

How can Green break a promise he never made

You're obviously at the wind up now so i'll bid you farewell.

[Mad Capsule]

They should have been thrown out of Scottish football in the summer - what a wasted opportunity.

I know. I think they will NEVER be thrown out of Scottish football though. We all know Doncaster and everyone else will not want this to happen for the money they bring. They are as corrupt as Green is.

I'll save my jelly and ice cream until it finally happens.