wunfellaff Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Doesnt seem so. Ticketus arent, yet, actually owed any money. As its stands, with what we know, HMRC have over 25% of the debt - unless a secured creditor comes out of the woodwork. I thought that part of the non-ruling was that they were told they would be ordinary creditors? Or do you mean that as no season tickets have been sold, they are not due cash yet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Read through the Court ruling and there seems no reference to what price season tickets should be sold at. Just a clause that says that for the first x number of season tickets Ticketus would get the money. So the new buyer forms an official supporters club. They pay membership of say £400 per year to join the club That gives them the right to buy a season ticket for £10 for all games. Total would be the same as buying a season ticket normally. Give Ticketus their money just on season ticket sales, namely £10 a shot. The new club keeps the membership fee. Obviously the Blue Knights would not go down this route but anyone else bidding should. They cant. The season tickets belong to Ticketus, so they will set the price. Rangers then become agents selling these tickets on Ticketus behalf. The club will have no say on the price. The agreement also states that the club has to sell the Ticketus tickets first. It would appear, if (and its a big if) the Ticketus deal remains in place that they have the club done up like the proverbial kipper. A couple of interesting things in the court decision. Haudit and Daudit originally asked "as to whether the administrators can be prevented from causing [Rangers] to terminate, albeit in breach of their terms, the [Ticketus agreements]." which would seem a pretty direct question as to whether or not they could tear up the deal. They then amended this to seeking "a guide to the legal nature". Which seems a lot more wooly. Does this imply that the judge told them they had no chance of getting him to agree to the first request? Secondly, a lot of the Ticketus deal seems to be covered by English law. This could complicate the whole thing a lot! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghPar1975 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 From reading the statement from Laural and Hardy I am taking it that their intention is to just not honour the deal with Ticketus and take their chances in court. Anyone else think they might try this one? Stupid thing to do i would think...surely this would result in Ticketus walking away from the Blue Shytes and taking legal action directly against the club/ new owners?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHawHaw Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) which would seem a pretty direct question as to whether or not they could tear up the deal. They then amended this to seeking "a guide to the legal nature". Which seems a lot more wooly. Does this imply that the judge told them they had no chance of getting him to agree to the first request? Secondly, a lot of the Ticketus deal seems to be covered by English law. This could complicate the whole thing a lot! I would have thought a lot of the take over foundations are on Ticketus not taking years of money out of Rangers with the season book deal, the interesting point is will Rangers break the deal and treat them like creditors...how costly in terms of money and time would that be + The big tax case + investigations on side contracts which should see Rangers kicked out of the SPL and maybe Scottish football if fairness was applied Edited March 24, 2012 by LordHawHaw 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Sorry to be lazy, but does anyone have a link to the court judgement on the Ticketus deal? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHawHaw Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Sorry to be lazy, but does anyone have a link to the court judgement on the Ticketus deal? http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2012CSOH55.html Better hunting around for an informed analysis on what it says and means 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghPar1975 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 1332585050[/url]' post='6080879']I would have thought a lot of the take over foundations are on Ticketus not taking years of money out of Rangers with the season book deal, the interesting point is will Rangers break the deal and treat them like creditors...how costly in terms of money and time would that be Surely all this has done is make Ticketus a shoe in for he takeover? If H&D treat hem as a creditor and dont have them as the new owners surely Ticketus will just block the CVA at any small level due to h amount owed. If they dont screw them over hen money will be hoovered out he club for the length of the deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) http://www.scotcourt...2012CSOH55.html Better hunting around for an informed analysis on what it says and means Cheers. Edit.. You're right, my brain just melted. Fun to see how Scots Law is mindfcuking these City slickers up from London though... Edited March 24, 2012 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Surely all this has done is make Ticketus a shoe in for he takeover? If H&D treat hem as a creditor and dont have them as the new owners surely Ticketus will just block the CVA at any small level due to h amount owed. If they dont screw them over hen money will be hoovered out he club for the length of the deal. I think your T's oot! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 When Airdrie went tits up KPMG never challenged a thing, except Archibald obviously. Anyone that turned up with an Opal Fruit paper with a number written on it got added to the list of creditors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Time for Dignitas to open a Govan branch.. My link 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killingfloorman Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Doesnt seem so. Ticketus arent, yet, actually owed any money. As its stands, with what we know, HMRC have over 25% of the debt - unless a secured creditor comes out of the woodwork. The Dundee players were listed as creditors because they were owed money by the club. As far as we know, the Rangers players arent. Could it be that the '75% tae save the tea ladies' renegotiation actually contains clauses that say that in the event of liquidation the players are due the full amount? H&D could be stringing this out until the players are owed enough to be able to force a CVA through no matter what the HMRC say? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghPar1975 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 1332587389[/url]' post='6080979']I think your T's oot! Bloody iPad! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungolfin Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Could it be that the '75% tae save the tea ladies' renegotiation actually contains clauses that say that in the event of liquidation the players are due the full amount? H&D could be stringing this out until the players are owed enough to be able to force a CVA through no matter what the HMRC say? According to Mystic Meg, Duff & Dufferer will continue the pretence of trying to save the club until the end of the season. Shortly after the season ends Rangers will go into liquidation and attempt to ditch all of their creditors. Whether they can do this Meg doesn't say as she's a psychic not a lawyer. However she does mention that the legal battles will run on for several years with most creditors ultimately receiving hee haw, including HMRC who will eventually get fed up as no one can work who owes what and several judges deliver inconclusive verdicts. Due to boredom and the continuing cost to the public purse the whole affair will be brushed under the carpet. Craig Whyte will never be seen in the country again. A consortium led by former Rangers directors will form a phoenix club which is allowed to keep the name Rangers and preserve the club's 'proud' history. This consortium will include a token representation from various fans groups (the fans representation will be the subject of in-fighting within 6 months, divided, marginalised and ditched after a couple of seasons). Rangers 2012 will apply for membership of the SPL. It's a safe bet that this will be granted in time for the new season with a laughable token points penalty for a few seasons in an attempt to placate the fans of other clubs and show that Rangers are being 'punished'. Rangers will be fined £20,000 by the SFA for contract irregularities and warned about future conduct. Normal service will be resumed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofarl Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/succulent-lamb-menu-questions/1010 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/succulent-lamb-menu-questions/1010 Right – let me make two things absolutely clear at the outset.First, I am writing this imagining that one or two people outside Glasgow use the internet, so I might make some observations familiar to Clydeside surfers. Second, this arises from my continuing investigation into Rangers which is still in early stages. That is to say, I am not investigating Celtic. If I were, rest assured RFC Bears – they’d get just the same treatment. I’d expected the paranoia, insults, spin etc – hey – this is “fitba” after all and I welcome it good, bad and ugly, from fans within and without Glasgow. Indeed I’ve gone out and asked for it. What I didn’t expect were the insults (and in at least one case a direct physical threat) not from fans but from Scottish journalists. Sarajevo, Mogadishu, Kabul, Islamabad, Tripoli, Baghdad…I could bore you with more – in none of these places have I ever got this interesting reaction from local journalists. Only in Glasgow. So something’s up. Something’s different. Something about asking questions about RFC clearly angers some in the Glasgow media in a way I’ve never seen in 25 years of global reporting. Equally, a number of fine Glasgow journalists have been incredibly helpful, encouraging and agree there has been something deeply wrong for far too long in the culture of reporting RFC. They know who they are, male and female, working in papers, radio and broadcasting and every single one has encouraged me to dig around in an area many cannot, will not or are prevented from, exploring. I refer of course to “succulent lamb”. Graham Spiers, seasoned football writer in Glasgow was there the day it happened. He and other reporters dined with Sir David Murray – then RFC owner, in the Channel Islands. Murray – as ever – was talking big on the Rangers dream-theme, laying out plans for the club that seemed to go well beyond the mere limit of the sky. There duly appeared copy praising the “succulent lamb” that was eaten – the “fine red” that was drunk. The food and drink were taken – so was this man’s dream of Rangers – all without much question in some quarters. I make and imply no criticism at all of the reporters present – what intrigues as an outsider is how many people years later around Glasgow happily talk about “succulent lamb” journalism. Let Graham explain – he was actually there, after all: “Succulent lamb journalism means a culture – and I hold my hand up here too – a culture of sycophantic, unquestioning, puff journalism that went on around Rangers generally and Sir David Murray particularly.” Of course you’ll see it to some degree across sport, across football. But it was, many Glasgow journalists say, more damaging here. “Look,” says Graham Spiers, “you are making a pact with the devil if you like. You get thrown the best scraps. You get something for the back page or whatever. But there’s a tacit deal. You don’t dig too deep. You don’t cause any trouble.” So Big Dave’s dream was shouted across Glasgow. Fans loved it. It shifted papers. Everyone (in blue) wanted in, needed to believe. So it went on – year after year. On one side the directors at Scotland’s football “governing” bodies didn’t ask much. On the other, large sections of Glasgow football journalism declined to delve. How else to explain Ibrox’s boom to spectacular bust? How else to deal with the fact that when Craig Whyte took over it was stories of a “billionaire” with “off the scale riches” that were pumped out? Ten minutes on Google or in Companies House could’ve ended that. But no. It was dreamland the fans wanted, dreamland much of the media bought into and a club already financially crippled was about to be further injured. Legions of fans sold out again, as it would turn out. Succulent lamb culture has permeated to a degree that, as one prominent Glasgow tabloid journalist put it: “The press -a really critical check and balance in the normal way of things, had been more or less destroyed in Glasgow.” So are things any better today? Is succulent lamb off the menu – replaced with humble pie? I leave it to others to judge if that succulent lamb cozy Glasgow football culture has really gone away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/succulent-lamb-menu-questions/1010 Great stuff from a real jurno....laptop loyal threatening to batter him for investigating rangers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 According to Mystic Meg, Duff & Dufferer will continue the pretence of trying to save the club until the end of the season. Shortly after the season ends Rangers will go into liquidation and attempt to ditch all of their creditors. Whether they can do this Meg doesn't say as she's a psychic not a lawyer. However she does mention that the legal battles will run on for several years with most creditors ultimately receiving hee haw, including HMRC who will eventually get fed up as no one can work who owes what and several judges deliver inconclusive verdicts. Due to boredom and the continuing cost to the public purse the whole affair will be brushed under the carpet. Craig Whyte will never be seen in the country again. A consortium led by former Rangers directors will form a phoenix club which is allowed to keep the name Rangers and preserve the club's 'proud' history. This consortium will include a token representation from various fans groups (the fans representation will be the subject of in-fighting within 6 months, divided, marginalised and ditched after a couple of seasons). Rangers 2012 will apply for membership of the SPL. It's a safe bet that this will be granted in time for the new season with a laughable token points penalty for a few seasons in an attempt to placate the fans of other clubs and show that Rangers are being 'punished'. Rangers will be fined £20,000 by the SFA for contract irregularities and warned about future conduct. Normal service will be resumed. Good post, only thing you've missed is fans of the rest of the Senior clubs deserting Scottish Football in droves. As the charade of competition, that's existed for decades, is brought firmly home to the rest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Great stuff from a real jurno....laptop loyal threatening to batter him for investigating rangers No, not the laptop loyal, he's insinuating that it's from the REAL people that depend on the OF, namely the Scottish Press. What I didn’t expect were the insults (and in at least one case a direct physical threat) not from fans but from Scottish journalists. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoTeamGaz Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Chick Young = rattled 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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