Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[P45]

Have you never read a tabloid before? This is common practice for the articles attributed to ex pros.

Eh no.

[jagfox]

He is a jekyll and hyde as well. In his Queens days , I was chatting amicably to him about that days game in a Dumfries nightclub. Out of the blue ,he took a swing at me , missed completely and then stepped behind his local minder . By fxck, he could take some drink

My mate met him I'm a hotel bar while waiting for a connection. For every pint my mate drank he'd necked a bottle of white wine...no wonder he was seeing double

[pozbaird]

If 1 more journo spews out that line that "Scottish football is dead without Rangers" i may just combust with rage. That line is guaranteed to get me shaking and angry no matter how good my day is going.

Aye, it gets on your tits, but give it a few months and so will "Ross County are a breath of fresh air for the SPL"... I give it until 5 minutes into their opening fixture before Spency, Biscuits, Doddsy, or Wee Chick comes out with it. It'll nearly be as bad as Gretna living some sort of fcuking dream, or whatever pish that was.

I'm fed up finishing my posts with 'Are they dead yet?' - This time I'm going for another old favourite....

Worst. Administration. Ever.

Edited April 13, 2012 by pozbaird

[killingfloorman]

Aye, it gets on your tits, but give it a few months and so will "Ross County are a breath of fresh air for the SPL"... I give it until 5 minutes into their opening fixture before Spency, Biscuits, Doddsy, or Wee Chick comes out with it,

I'm fed up finishing my posts with 'Are they dead yet?' - This time I'm going for another old favourite....

Worst. Administration. Ever.

What they really mean is that Scottish football 'journalists' would be dead without rapeepul Imagine having to work for a living?

[Monkey Tennis]

what a cock.

That's what gets me. Why does Traynor think anyone bothers to watch a non-OF side at all? In real terms the diddies all start each season a hell of a lot more than 10 points down, yet they still draw fans.

Traynor totally parodies the OF mindset without even meaning to.

[Gaz FFC]

Traynor totally parodies the OF mindset without even meaning to.

Nailed it.

[squidger]

Do we know how much the administrators are getting paid yet? by the time this is all said and done a conservative estimate would be around the £3million mark the way things are being dragged out. The fact they were appointed by Whyte could mean they are on grossly inflated terms ( even for administrators ) so as the weeks and months tick on by the bill rises and rises making things worse.

I suppose my question is not knowing much about these sorts of things, can the administrators hold back capital for themselves to ensure they are paid ahead of creditors ? and if so are they using scottish football and its ability to fume and deliberate endlessly as a smokescreen to drag this out until the likes of season ticket sales,prize money and other incomings are paid to meet their own invoices.

The finger is being pointed everywhere, accusations about just about everything and blame apportioned, but very little media attention seems to be on the guys at the heart of this process. The have basically achieved nothing in their tenure so far but a minor pay reduction and a set meaningless deadlines for half baked offers to come in that cannot be realised until they do the job they are meant to be there for.

All seems very bizarre they are being given such an easy ride.

[yorkshirepud]

I believe, but someone can correct me if Im wrong, that the transfer/sale of assets to the newco can be arranged and agreed before liquidation actually takes place.

Correct. It's called a pre-pack liquidation. It's what I put my bet on the day they went into administration as it is the only way out, due to the sums involved and likelihood of HMRC rejecting a CVA..

[Ken Fitlike]

If 1 more journo spews out that line that "Scottish football is dead without Rangers" i may just combust with rage. That line is guaranteed to get me shaking and angry no matter how good my day is going.

If Scottish Football is dead without Rangers, then it is Rangers that killed it.

[killingfloorman]

Do we know how much the administrators are getting paid yet? by the time this is all said and done a conservative estimate would be around the £3million mark the way things are being dragged out. The fact they were appointed by Whyte could mean they are on grossly inflated terms ( even for administrators ) so as the weeks and months tick on by the bill rises and rises making things worse.

I suppose my question is not knowing much about these sorts of things, can the administrators hold back capital for themselves to ensure they are paid ahead of creditors ? and if so are they using scottish football and its ability to fume and deliberate endlessly as a smokescreen to drag this out until the likes of season ticket sales,prize money and other incomings are paid to meet their own invoices.

The finger is being pointed everywhere, accusations about just about everything and blame apportioned, but very little media attention seems to be on the guys at the heart of this process. The have basically achieved nothing in their tenure so far but a minor pay reduction and a set meaningless deadlines for half baked offers to come in that cannot be realised until they do the job they are meant to be there for.

All seems very bizarre they are being given such an easy ride.

Under law, they get paid before any other creditors i believe.

[Mr Waldo]

I suppose my question is not knowing much about these sorts of things, can the administrators hold back capital for themselves to ensure they are paid ahead of creditors ? and if so are they using scottish football and its ability to fume and deliberate endlessly as a smokescreen to drag this out until the likes of season ticket sales,prize money and other incomings are paid to meet their own invoices.

Yes they are the very very first people paid.

Yes they are taking money out of Scottish Football but because the journos are so poor they do not go on about it.

[Gaz FFC]

If Scottish Football is dead without Rangers, then it is Rangers that killed it.

Well put my good fella

[Bearwithme]

American view of he current rangers scandal stolen from another forum.

http:\\bleacherreport.com\ articles\1...c ottish-soccer

Imagine if you will an athlete. Let's say he's a 100m runner, and he has dominated the field for 10 years. He's so successful, so popular, so charismatic,thatmany people considerthefuture of theevent itself depends on his continued participation, and success in, competition.

He brings millions of dollars into the sport in sponsorship and television deals every year, and if he was to retire, no one would be interested in attending track meets or watching them on television any more.

Now this athlete has been at the top of his game for many years, but time is catching up with him. It emerges that he has recently been using a new type of performance enhancing drug, and this discovery throws up the revelation that actually, he has been using steroids for his whole career. What should happen to our now disgraced hero?

Should he be stripped of every Olympic and World gold medal he has won while using performance enhancing drugs? Should his personal records be removed from their placing in theworld records? Should he be banned from all competition for at least the minimum period prescribed in the rules?

Or should he be forgiven and excused it all as a simple matter of expediency? We can't have the money-tap for the sport turned off, after all. Can we?

What's more, years of steroid abuse have caused serious physical deterioration in our athlete, and he may have to retire from the sport. Should the sport pay for his medical treatment to allow him to continue?

Consider then the curious case of Rangers Football Club. The most successful club in Scotland, they have won the Scottish title 54 times and claim over 100 first-class honors in their history. They attract the second-highest attendances in the SPL and their fan base probably provide the majority of the viewing public for SPL matches televised on Sky Sports and ESPN.

Despite this, Rangers is in trouble. Since the club was taken over by Craig Whyte in May 2011, they have not remitted any of the taxes due to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) in Pay as You Earn (PAYE) tax and National Insurance Contributions (NIC).

Under previous owner Sir David Murray, the club operated an Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) scheme from 2000 to 2010. This is a scheme whereby employees are paid (and taxed on) a very small percentage of their wages. The remainder is paid into a trust, which then gives "loans," to the employee, which are non-taxable and never repaid.

This is perfectly legal, but the key word is "trust." The employee must "trust" the employer to ensure they are paid, "loans," from the trust.Contractual payments absolutely cannot be made through the EBT. Evidence has emerged in the public domain which suggests that Rangers players were assured in writing that they would be paid from an EBT, and that they would never have to repay the money.

HMRC maintain that the payments made to Rangers players in this period were contractual in nature, and therefore taxable. They have presented Rangers with a bill for £24m in unpaid taxes, and £12m in interest. Should the First Tier Tax tribunal find in their favour, a further penalty will be imposed, which could see the final bill reach as much as £75m.

Since at least 1999, when a similar tax dodge was operated (Rangers admitthisand havecommitted to paying £2.8m to HMRC), Rangers has therefore used non-payment and evasion of tax to give the club a financial and sporting advantageoverevery otherclub.

That's not all. As Rangers has made payments to players which were not included in their contracts, the players involved were not correctly registered with the national association, and so ineligible. The accepted sanction for fielding of ineligible playersin soccerisforthematch to be recorded as a 0-3 defeat.

Since 1999, Rangers has won the Scottish Premier League seven times, whilst fielding ineligible players whom they could not have afforded to pay if they were not avoiding making tax payments on their wages.

To the outsider, it seems simple. Rangers must be stripped of all honours won during their financial "doping" years.

It goes beyond even this. The President of the Scottish Football Association is Campbell Ogilvie. He has held influential positions with the SFA and SPL over a period of many years, going back to the 1990's. At which time, Campbell Ogilvie was the Secretary of Rangers FC.

Indeed, Campbell Ogilvie was himself paid via an EBT during his time at Rangers.Both theSFA and SPL have launched investigations into Rangers' conduct in the years since 1998, but there is no confidence within the Scottish soccer community that they will take any serious steps to dealwith Rangers' wrongdoing.

One thing Rangers cannot escape though, is financial reality. It finally caught up with them on 14th February when the club was placed into administration.

This is a UK legal term which basically means thata court-appointed team take over the running of the company. It prevents creditors from taking legal action against it, and the administrator must take steps to make the company profitableto ensurecreditorsarepaid.

The administrators may seek to arrangea CompanyVoluntaryAgreement (CVA)with thecreditors. This requires the agreement of 76 percent of the creditors by value. It means that all creditors would accept a pennies-to-the-pound deal. Once they are paid, for example, 30p for every pound owed, the company can exit administration and emerge debt-free.

If the creditors do not agree a CVA and the company cannot pay them in full, it is then liquidated. All assets are sold off and the proceeds distributed evenly amongst the creditors.Asthemajority of Rangers' debt is owed to HMRC, the chancesof a CVAareunlikely.It isthepolicy of HMRCto reject CVA's.

The most likely outcome for Rangers FC is that they will soon be liquidated. The club will cease to exist. Here's where it gets interesting. The SPL yesterday published a set of proposed changes to their Financial Fair Play policy.

Amongst them, is a proposal to allow a club, on liquidation, being allowed to transfer their, "share," or membership of the SPL, to a new company. This would mean that should Rangers be liquidated, their directors, or anyone else who wants to buy their stadium, training ground and players, can do so and be given Rangers' place in the SPL.

Effectively, this would mean a debt-free company, called Rangers FC, playing in blue shirts at Ibrox Stadium next season, while HMRC and other creditors (Rangers are in debt to possibly as much as £134m) are left with nothing.

One of those creditors is Heart of Midlothian FC, from whom Rangers signed full-back Lee Wallace. They still owe £800,000, which is unlikely ever to be paid. Another is Rapid Vienna, from whom Rangers purchased Nikica Jelavic, whose goals were instrumental in their winning of the SPL last season. Rapid are still owed £1m, and despite Rangers selling him to Everton FC for £5m in January, Rapid are unlikely to ever see their money.

Effectively, the SPL propose to issue a cheats' charter,and coincidentallyI am sure,just as it looks like Rangers are to be liquidated. Nothing like this happened just four years ago when Gretna FC were liquidated.

Rangers FC is in serious danger of being liquidated because they have lived beyond their means for far too long, in the process distorting the market in Scotland.

It has abused the tax system to give itself an unfair sporting advantage over the rest of the clubs in the SPL.

It has bought players from other clubs it could not afford to pay for and had no intention of ever paying for.

And the Scottish sporting establishment, governing bodies and media, want everything possible to be done to facilitate Rangers, who have destroyed the sporting integrity of the Scottish game, escaping the consequences of their self-inflicted troubles.

To return to our doped up and physically damaged by self-inflicted wounds athlete, it appears that in Scotland at least, all the stops WOULD be pulled to ensure his continued participation in the sport.

We can't allow the money-tap to be turned off, after all. Can we?

"American view"? Well, assuming the Celtic fan who wrote it is American. Yes, it's an opinion piece by one of you bhoys.

[killingfloorman]

So, another week over and.....nothing

To quote the OP

Worst. Administration. Ever

[eightmile]

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/Port-Vale-HMRC-set-reject-CVA-deal/story-15804212-detail/story.html

Looks like the Tax Man doesn't dig those CVA deals and always good to see Traynor has another career - as an administrator in Staffordshire

Port Vale: HMRC set to reject CVA deal

Friday, April 13, 2012The Sentinel

FollowTHE taxman looks certain to vote against a proposed deal to pay off Vale's creditors – but their opposition won't be enough to derail the takeover.

HM Revenue & Customs are owed £189,965 by Vale, making them the third largest creditor of the club, which entered administration in March.

1. ​

Vale's administrator, Begbies Traynor, has set out a Company Voluntary Arrangement which will be voted on by creditors at a meeting on April 26.

The arrangement requires approval from 75 per cent of the value of the club's £2.69m debt to be passed. But only those creditors who vote will be counted in the calculations.

If approved it will clear the path for Lancashire businessman Keith Ryder to complete his £1.4m takeover.

However, the deal involves unsecured creditors, like HMRC, receiving 3p for each £1 they are owed, which would pocket them just £5,700.

All football creditors, including players who have wage arrears, are paid in full, which reduces the available cash for other parties.

A Revenue and Customs spokesman said: "HMRC has a long-standing policy that we will not support a CVA which seeks to give preference to one class of unsecured creditor over another.

"HMRC has challenged the operation of the football creditor rule in the High Court, since this rule seeks to give an advantage to unsecured football creditors over other non-football unsecured creditors.

"The practical application of the so-called 'football creditor rule' can mean that the risk of revenue losses in the football sector can be particularly high.

"HMRC's view is that the rule is unfair, unlawful and unacceptable which is why we are challenging it in the courts."

[itzdrk]

Traynor reads P&B!

http://www.dailyreco...86908-23823231/

its more of an open letter to rangers fans that

however he is suggesting all the correct things

• if rangers newco stay in the SPL its the other clubs fault
• rangers newco should be in division 3
• rangers arent being treated unfairly by the SPL

no great , but quite surprised to see he has those views

[Bearwithme]

http://www.thisissta...tail/story.html

Looks like the Tax Man doesn't dig those CVA deals and always good to see Traynor has another career - as an administrator in Staffordshire

Port Vale: HMRC set to reject CVA deal

Friday, April 13, 2012The Sentinel

FollowTHE taxman looks certain to vote against a proposed deal to pay off Vale's creditors – but their opposition won't be enough to derail the takeover.

HM Revenue & Customs are owed £189,965 by Vale, making them the third largest creditor of the club, which entered administration in March.

1. ​

Vale's administrator, Begbies Traynor, has set out a Company Voluntary Arrangement which will be voted on by creditors at a meeting on April 26.

The arrangement requires approval from 75 per cent of the value of the club's £2.69m debt to be passed. But only those creditors who vote will be counted in the calculations.

If approved it will clear the path for Lancashire businessman Keith Ryder to complete his £1.4m takeover.

However, the deal involves unsecured creditors, like HMRC, receiving 3p for each £1 they are owed, which would pocket them just £5,700.

All football creditors, including players who have wage arrears, are paid in full, which reduces the available cash for other parties.

A Revenue and Customs spokesman said: "HMRC has a long-standing policy that we will not support a CVA which seeks to give preference to one class of unsecured creditor over another.

"HMRC has challenged the operation of the football creditor rule in the High Court, since this rule seeks to give an advantage to unsecured football creditors over other non-football unsecured creditors.

"The practical application of the so-called 'football creditor rule' can mean that the risk of revenue losses in the football sector can be particularly high.

"HMRC's view is that the rule is unfair, unlawful and unacceptable which is why we are challenging it in the courts."

The rule concerned also does not exist in Scotland.

[eightmile]

The rule concerned also does not exist in Scotland.

No but HMRC's increasing intolerance of football clubs that play fast and loose with tax does. So Porstmouth and Port Vale are spicing things up nicely for Rangers. I do hope its painful.

[exiled jambo]

Living here in Canada I rarely get to listen to sportsound live so I keep up with the podcasts. Having just listened to Thursdays one I have to ask myself how does that f***wit Chick Young have a job ?

As a radio commentator his verbal communication skills are frankly rather poor (that's being kind) and he has a bloody annoying voice. As a journalist, has he ever asked a searching question of anybody ? or does he just believe every piece of bullshit he is told ?

As far as Jim Traynor is concerned he is just another old firm apologist, least said about him the better.

From what I have seen over the past few weeks I have come to the conclusion that there's a lot deal more jiggery pokery going on in the higher echelons of Scottish football than I ever imagined (and I thought there was quite a lot).

[~~~]

Tam Cowan tonight