No8. Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Not especially no. That would suggest to me that we're less backward than places where it is. So there is no sectarian problem to speak about yet there are literallt thousands of Old Firm supporters in the area. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyWellFan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Absolutely. Why do you feel one is any better than the other? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 You'll be able to cite some sources for your info? http://www.sneps.net/OO/images/1-The Orange Order in Scotland since 1860.pdf Page 4 when the membership of the OO peaked, page 29 for Pope visit, 1982. Seriously if you don't think the membership increased because of this visit then you're being naive. http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/hstrike/summary.htm Again if you don't accept that support for Irish Republicanism increased in Scotland due to the hunger strikes then you're being naive. The hunger strikes ensured that Irish Republican movements had their active and tacit support increased. There are many articles to support that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 http://www.sneps.net/OO/images/1-The Orange Order in Scotland since 1860.pdf Page 4 when the membership of the OO peaked, page 29 for Pope visit, 1982. Seriously if you don't think the membership increased because of this visit then you're being naive. http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/hstrike/summary.htm Again if you don't accept that support for Irish Republicanism increased in Scotland due to the hunger strikes then you're being naive. The hunger strikes ensured that Irish Republican movements had their active and tacit support increased. There are many articles to support that. stoney= telt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 can you cite some sources for your bizzare claim the peak in memberships took place due to a football riot. which btw rangers and celtic fans were involved in clashes much more frequently back then throughout glasgow on old firm day so I am told , it just so happened this one took place on the pitch in full view of camera's. where was the huge upsurge after every altercation between rangers and celtic fans outside ibrox, parkehad or hampden in the 70's and 80's. There were more fights in the mid 60s to mid 70s than any era since then, although there was plenty during the earlier part of last century, between both wars being a peak for it. And no SS, i'm not giving a link. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aofjays Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 so if you did not know a date was mentioned why were you so sure it took place in parkhead a few months beforehand? Accidentally semi quoting this to be honest: http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/football-opinion/brian-mcnally-column-rangers-fans-3346509 Feel free to call that a f**k up if you want. More than happy to admit actual mistakes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 By all reports, the vast majority of Rangers fans seem intent on voting no at the Indy Ref. It is the only club in the Country to have such an overwhelming support for no. Now generally, when an exceptionally large portion of a particular - non political - group in society are shown to share a particular political view, it can be assumed that they see the converse view as being damaging/threatening to the well being/existence of the group. Let's take the shipyard workers for example, they are being encouraged to vote no in this ref by their Union leaders, who in turn have been convinced by the Labour Party - in representation of the Better Together campaign - that a Yes vote will be damaging to the industry and therefor their livelihoods. Can anyone explain what unites such a large economically and socially diverse group (Rangers support) in feeling fear and under threat from their home Nation's independence? Can you cite any of these reports that state the vast majority of Rangers fans are voting NO? Also can you give a percentage of this vast majority? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Accidentally semi quoting this to be honest: http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/football-opinion/brian-mcnally-column-rangers-fans-3346509 Feel free to call that a f**k up if you want. More than happy to admit actual mistakes. again i am not claiming the billy boys has never been sung at parkhead , i was questioning it happening in time frame you stated earlier in the posts at hand. you clealry stated a few months beforehand so you must have had some rough date floating around your head ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aofjays Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 again i am not claiming the billy boys has never been sung at parkhead , i was questioning it happening in time frame you stated earlier in the posts at hand. you clealry stated a few months beforehand so you must have had some rough date floating around your head ? Ah, fair enough. CIS cup final was a few months after the article I linked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 With all the arguing over what is and isn't sectarian... The McPherson Report , commissioned in the wake of Stephen Lawrence's killing, defined a racist incident as one which constituted words, behaviour or actions perceived by the victim, or a third party, to be racist. Applying the same logic to the Arse Cheeks' "traditional" behaviour, the question really is, why continue to behave in this manner when you clearly know your behaviour is unacceptable to the majority of society? Deflection from both sides has been the order for the last couple of days. I see it as a simple fact that, without these two convenient beacons, the sectarian issue in Scotland would have died out in any significant numbers decades ago. How often do you hear the "I'm just a football fan" shite from supporters born miles away from Glasgow? Glory Hunters? Why don't they (later generations at least) follow Man United or Barcelona, then? At least they're competing for the big prizes, and they're as relevant to "just a football fan" from Inverness or Gretna - or Belfast, or wherever else they come from to get on the ferries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taza Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Can you cite any of these reports that state the vast majority of Rangers fans are voting NO? Also can you give a percentage of this vast majority? There's a thread in the Indy forum where posters have been listing polls conducted on the subject, from all clubs' various supporters sites/forums. Rangers' ranged 80-95%. The P&B bears are almost to a man voting no. Tedi has declared undecided, I think Bennett has said he's a yes and as far as I'm aware only 2x others on here have declared themselves as yes voters. I think you'l find it to be a widely held view that most of your club's support are in the no camp but strangely enough very few of them want to discuss their reasons. As I remember, you are also a confirmed no voter. Perhaps we should start an Indy poll thread in this section and see how it turns out. Fancy hazarding a guess at the outcome? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) Can anyone explain what unites such a large economically and socially diverse group (Rangers support) in feeling fear and under threat from their home Nation's independence? As a Rangers fan and SNP member, perhaps you could explain why i would feel under threat? Just noticed your above post Apache, just ignore this. Edited July 29, 2014 by bennett 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 There's a thread in the Indy forum where posters have been listing polls conducted on the subject, from all clubs' various supporters sites/forums. Rangers' ranged 80-95%. The P&B bears are almost to a man voting no. Tedi has declared undecided, I think Bennett has said he's a yes and as far as I'm aware only 2x others on here have declared themselves as yes voters. I think you'l find it to be a widely held view that most of your club's support are in the no camp but strangely enough very few of them want to discuss their reasons. As I remember, you are also a confirmed no voter. Perhaps we should start an Indy poll thread in this section and see how it turns out. Fancy hazarding a guess at the outcome? the result of any poll here would be irrelevant as very few rangers fans actually post on this section, also we prefer to discuss 16-20th century irish ploitics on this part of the form, none of this modern day scottish stuff please nah in actual fact tbf the topic of independnec is hardly ever discussed on this part of the forum 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) stoney= telt http://www.sneps.net/OO/images/1-The Orange Order in Scotland since 1860.pdf Page 4 when the membership of the OO peaked, page 29 for Pope visit, 1982. Seriously if you don't think the membership increased because of this visit then you're being naive. http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/hstrike/summary.htm Again if you don't accept that support for Irish Republicanism increased in Scotland due to the hunger strikes then you're being naive. The hunger strikes ensured that Irish Republican movements had their active and tacit support increased. There are many articles to support that. Thanks for that, I'll have a read later. What were we talking about and where were we going with this? EDIT- It's okay I read back. The clubs may not have been the cause of sectarianism but they have without doubt used the fear and tension created by sectarianism across the water to profit from their fan groups. The clubs sold themselves as being on one side of the divide or the other thereby inextricably linking the support of a club to one side or other in the conflict. They used fear to sell their products. They traded on the insecurities of normal people and used that to force them into showing loyalty to something more than a football club. Ingenious marketing but abhorrent practice in real life. The "coincidence" in timeline showing Irish political interest in this country and this country's worst football violence shows how pathetic so-called sporting organisations and those who follow them are. The OF clubs, all three of them, have chosen to be ambassadors for one side or other in order to maximise profit. Whether they have done this through direct means or used more subliminal methods the clubs are culpable for helping to maintain even stoke the passions aroused in normal people in order to make a profit. Edited July 29, 2014 by stonedsailor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 This still does not make it ok for any individual to act in such a way, regardless of the team they support. He's not suggesting for a moment that it does. He's quite explicit in not doing so. He's saying that the existence of the OF clubs has enabled such regrettable instances to occur. Why do people keep wishing to argue with others about things they've not said? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 As a Rangers fan and SNP member, perhaps you could explain why i would feel under threat? Just noticed your above post Apache, just ignore this. An SNP member? Those are a bunch of two faced back-stabbing cnuts. You'll fit right in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calum_gers Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 He's not suggesting for a moment that it does. He's quite explicit in not doing so. He's saying that the existence of the OF clubs has enabled such regrettable instances to occur. Why do people keep wishing to argue with others about things they've not said? This entire thread has become an exercise in whatabouttery and refusal to accept basic facts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 This still does not make it ok for any individual to act in such a way, regardless of the team they support. When part of a crowd an individual loses his/her identity so in essence choosing to be a part of a crowd is choosing to enter into the group and all of it's philosophies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calum_gers Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 When part of a crowd an individual loses his/her identity so in essence choosing to be a part of a crowd is choosing to enter into the group and all of it's philosophies. Utter nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 There's a thread in the Indy forum where posters have been listing polls conducted on the subject, from all clubs' various supporters sites/forums. Rangers' ranged 80-95%. The P&B bears are almost to a man voting no. Tedi has declared undecided, I think Bennett has said he's a yes and as far as I'm aware only 2x others on here have declared themselves as yes voters. I think you'l find it to be a widely held view that most of your club's support are in the no camp but strangely enough very few of them want to discuss their reasons. As I remember, you are also a confirmed no voter. Perhaps we should start an Indy poll thread in this section and see how it turns out. Fancy hazarding a guess at the outcome? Hardly a vast majority of Rangers fans but fair enough you can only go on what is seen, i personally know of many Rangers fans who are voting YES, as for myself, i haven't got a vote being domiciled in England. However speaking for myself, whilst i support the Union my politics are that of Labour and if i still lived in Scotland i may well vote YES, it would depend on my summation of taking everything into account, which tbh i haven't done. A poll on this thread, a resounding YES i would think 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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