Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[Salvo Montalbano]

1 minute ago, Cardle is Magic said:

Chalmers hasn’t been good either but he seems to get 10 x as much criticism as Allan for some reason.

It’s not like Allan is some untested teenager trying his best either - lad will be 24 next month.

I think it's a combination of 1) we paid for Chalmers, 2) he'll be getting paid more than Allan, 3) he was brought in as someone who specifically is good at keeping possession and 4) he gives an air of someone who doesn't "try" (aka he doesn't run around very much). When you add all that up and look at what he actually brings to the table, it's probably more surprising that he doesn't get even more stick!

[Parscelona]

20 minutes ago, third lanark said:

Did you guys try and sign o Reilly from Raith.  Would have thought if you were looking for a CB you would have put in a bid

Considering teams higher than us were in for Reilly, we would have been wasting our time, not a chance he would have signed for us.

Unfortunately club size is irrelevant when it comes to Ashcroft, if Raith are wanting him, he ends up there as he's got a chance of winning the league or promotion, we're not achieving either this season. 

Edited January 11 by Parscelona

[Salvo Montalbano]

2 minutes ago, Parscelona said:

Considering teams higher than us were in for Reilly, we would have been wasting our time, not a chance he would have signed for us.

He went from a team top of the table and looking good for promotion to a team 3rd and unlikely to go up even via the play offs, so that makes no sense. Seems that O'Reilly was offered a 6 month extension at Raith but 18 months at Partick so that's swayed him there. For some it'll be travel - same money, same length of contract but less travelling each day and less in petrol money means they'll go to a club nearby. For others it'll be working with someone they've enjoyed working with before. It's simplistic to say that such and such a player wouldn't come to us simply because we're lower in the table.

[par-adise]

3 hours ago, The Toun Clock said:

I'm frustrated with how we've been doing in the last couple of windows but I don't deny the club are trying. If you look at McPake's early days at the club, first two signings were Bene and Chris Hamilton, I thought here we go, someone who knows what he's doing. But since then it's all been a bit meh. 

I agree with most of your post but I'm going to push back a bit on that last sentence. I think he brought in real quality to the club in the summer. KRH, Fisher and Otoo all have bags of potential and will hopefully do a great turn for the club. Summers is clearly an incredibly talented footballer, although he needs to get fit and a run of games under him. And likewise Moffat looks a good prospect who I'd like to see us sign permanently in the summer if we can. Jakubiak as you say makes sense and was a long term target. I think he could offer a lot in a team with a forward who can actually score goals. MOH is a bit of an outlier and one I still don't quite understand, but tbf to him he's being shunted around the park and not playing in his favoured position.

The problem is we needed a couple more bodies with a bit more experience. However I don't think the signings we did make were meh. They possibly only feel like that as the three big permanent signings were loans from last season. 

[Parscelona]

In regards to Reilly, fair enough if Partick were offering a longer deal but they can offer a better package all round than us in our present state, so why waste our time?

We're more likely to end up with a young CB on loan from Celtic B than we are to bring in a Reilly or Ashcroft sadly...

[The Toun Clock]

2 hours ago, RRFC_Liam said:

I very much doubt partick needs him now since they have Muirhead, Neilson, O’Reilly and that Williams, plus Inverness signed that Carragher so realistically I think it’s between the 2 of us for Ashcroft and if the rumours are to be believed he’s coming our way 

I think he'll be a RRFC player at some point in the window. No brainer for Ashcroft, team at the top of the league, going well on and off the park and guaranteed game time, or a team he was at before Dundee, where he wasn't always a fans favourite and are mid table, with an injury list as long as the Thames.

37 minutes ago, third lanark said:

Did you guys try and sign o Reilly from Raith.  Would have thought if you were looking for a CB you would have put in a bid

No idea. The Courier had said five clubs had tabled a contract for him. I think it would have been Rovers, Thistle, Pars, potentially Dundee Utd. Not sure who else. All just guessing but I'd say we definitely made an offer. Thing is, we might have only wanted to offer short term the same as Rovers. We might have offered less coin, he also mightn't have wanted to come to us since he's going from the Rovers and he can see how crap we've been lately.

[The Toun Clock]

Weird one, before Ashcroft left I couldn't have cared less. Was glad to see the back of him and that kinda era of player at the club. He went to Dundee and really kicked on but has now found himself out of things again. Now, I'm seeing him and some sort of Messiah! For me, I want a Bene type. If he's going to be out until March then I want someone experienced in the defence. If we can't get Ashcroft then that's okay, but I'd rather him than an untested player at the moment. Still, anyone would be good about now.

[AuldReekie]

14 minutes ago, par-adise said:

I agree with most of your post but I'm going to push back a bit on that last sentence. I think he brought in real quality to the club in the summer. KRH, Fisher and Otoo all have bags of potential and will hopefully do a great turn for the club. Summers is clearly an incredibly talented footballer, although he needs to get fit and a run of games under him. And likewise Moffat looks a good prospect who I'd like to see us sign permanently in the summer if we can. Jakubiak as you say makes sense and was a long term target. I think he could offer a lot in a team with a forward who can actually score goals. MOH is a bit of an outlier and one I still don't quite understand, but tbf to him he's being shunted around the park and not playing in his favoured position.

The problem is we needed a couple more bodies with a bit more experience. However I don't think the signings we did make were meh. They possibly only feel like that as the three big permanent signings were loans from last season. 

I think I'd agree with all of that.

I do hope we get to see how our attack looks when Bene and a solid defence is fully fit and playing, and we get a better foundation on which to build attacks and more progressive players back in midfield. There have been signs that both Jakubiak and MOH offer a decent attacking threat in wider areas but it's been part of a dysfunctional and limited attacking threat which makes it difficult to judge what their ceiling is. Moffat and Summers have clearly shown what they are capable in short spells but again, this has been limited due to their relative inexperience and the general fractured team around them. Summers looks like he's been playing with an injury or is knackered. We all know what Matty Todd offers. Otoo looks like he could definitely move on to play at a higher level.

All in all, I don't look at this squad and think there's been poor signings or investment. If they were all fully fit, I genuinely think we'd be in a race with Partick for 3rd at the very least.

There's a couple of guys who have a history of being somewhat injury-prone but in a normal season I think we could have managed them and got valuable game time out of them.

 

 

[The Toun Clock]

17 minutes ago, par-adise said:

I agree with most of your post but I'm going to push back a bit on that last sentence. I think he brought in real quality to the club in the summer. KRH, Fisher and Otoo all have bags of potential and will hopefully do a great turn for the club. Summers is clearly an incredibly talented footballer, although he needs to get fit and a run of games under him. And likewise Moffat looks a good prospect who I'd like to see us sign permanently in the summer if we can. Jakubiak as you say makes sense and was a long term target. I think he could offer a lot in a team with a forward who can actually score goals. MOH is a bit of an outlier and one I still don't quite understand, but tbf to him he's being shunted around the park and not playing in his favoured position.

The problem is we needed a couple more bodies with a bit more experience. However I don't think the signings we did make were meh. They possibly only feel like that as the three big permanent signings were loans from last season. 

I know what you're saying, maybe I was too harsh with meh. But after the KRH signing, my juices did not flow once. I expected the Fisher signing and was happy we did. I was surprised at the Otoo signing, didn't think we'd go back in for him or get him but still we'd seen him last season, wasn't overly exciting. Summers was an interesting one, the Open Goal boys had spoke about him before when watching a B team game so I thought he must be good, but he's still a kid. Then we waited a while and got Moffat who is a good player, but still a young kid, followed by Jakubiak. Now I'd seen the Jak play, but by time we got him the season had started and it felt like we'd just went out and signed for the sake of it, also we were still hoping for a striker and all of a sudden we'd got this guy who Dundee fans were telling us wasn't an out out striker but a good wide forward type.

I expected we'd maybe add one or two with that experience as opposed to kids who will have sell on value, and even still, Moffat and Summers aren't ours to sell on one day. If we'd signed Wotherspoon then I would have been satisfied, that would have been a real coup. We don't, he does well at Inverness and now is about to sing a dean with Dundee Utd. What could have been... 

[RRFC_Liam]

9 minutes ago, The Toun Clock said:

Weird one, before Ashcroft left I couldn't have cared less. Was glad to see the back of him and that kinda era of player at the club. He went to Dundee and really kicked on but has now found himself out of things again. Now, I'm seeing him and some sort of Messiah! For me, I want a Bene type. If he's going to be out until March then I want someone experienced in the defence. If we can't get Ashcroft then that's okay, but I'd rather him than an untested player at the moment. Still, anyone would be good about now.

I think the Bene type is rare in this window unless you find some gem from down south that’s similar the CB market is a very tough one we got 2 good CBs in Murray and Watson at the right time but apart from that your struggling really 

[TxRover]

14 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

He went from a team top of the table and looking good for promotion to a team 3rd and unlikely to go up even via the play offs, so that makes no sense. Seems that O'Reilly was offered a 6 month extension at Raith but 18 months at Partick so that's swayed him there. For some it'll be travel - same money, same length of contract but less travelling each day and less in petrol money means they'll go to a club nearby. For others it'll be working with someone they've enjoyed working with before. It's simplistic to say that such and such a player wouldn't come to us simply because we're lower in the table.

Everything that happened reeked of stability being O’Reilly’s top criteria. He left the Accies after turning down an offer for them. He apparently then declined some offers while expecting more, but they dried up. When we signed him, it was clear it was a quid pro quo…we could use a CB for a month or so (Watson’s injury) and he would get some exposure (coincidentally on a team challenging for promotion). He did say to someone interviewing that he hadn’t expected to be out of contract so long, and he should probably have signed on of those earlier tenders.

The Courier stated that five clubs tabled offers to O’Reilly, and they were all implied to be Scottish Championship teams. Assuming that included the Rovers, that would likely be also Partick, Morton, ICT and you lot. Of those, with stability being his goal, Partick offering 18 months would be the no brainer, with Morton a questionable second possibly due to their proximity to his home (I understand he’s in the Glasgow area). We were both somewhat handicapped by travel thus, so ICT probably was never in with a chance. Would you have been offering more than 6 months, and would he be worried about your injury situation causing relegation risk in that case? In the case of Morton, the perpetual concern about the ownership model probably worked against them.

[RRFC_Liam]

1 hour ago, CallumPar said:

When Potter was here, he was very popular with the players. His spell as manager was obviously really poor, but the players all absolutely loved him and I do believe they all genuinely wanted to do well for him.

When he left for Sunderland, I know the players were all really sad to see him go. I honestly have a lot of time for Potter. He did a lot for the club and even played through injury during admin times, to try and talk the kids through the games. In other games, he was named as a sub and would stand behind the goals (where players warm up), organising the young defenders.

Rovers players that Potter was involved with at Dunfermline would include: Ross Millen, Shaun Byrne, Callum Smith. Not sure if Aidan Connolly maybe played for a very brief spell while Potter was still a coach as well. Andy Barrowman was also one of Potter’s first signings as manager. Lee Ashcroft would be another one that worked with Potter at Dunfermline when he signs. I’d imagine Gullan, Dabrowski and Stanton possibly worked with him at Hibs too?

Well Dabrowski was at Hibs for 8 years before the summer and I think Gullan was as there at the same time, Stanton was there over 10 year ago when Murray was still playing…. 
 

but going back to potter I think he’s a good DOF with his talent ID and structuring football operations and I’ve also heard he’s a very good coach and players are always wanting learn off him even my wee cousin is part of the community foundation and potter sometimes takes sessions and gives the young ones advice and so they the fundamentals…. where’s as I don’t think he’s got the tactical stuff to be a manager 

[par-adise]

13 minutes ago, AuldReekie said:

If they were all fully fit, I genuinely think we'd be in a race with Partick for 3rd at the very least. 

Absolutely. Having seen all of the other teams now I'm pretty sure if we'd had a "normal" season injury wise we'd be looking at 4th comfortably. I have a bit of a soft spot for this Airdrie side and McCabe and they have a great chance on Saturday to pull away from 5th and below, but at the end of the day they aren't much improved from the side we finished miles ahead last season. 

[RRFC_Liam]

6 minutes ago, par-adise said:

Absolutely. Having seen all of the other teams now I'm pretty sure if we'd had a "normal" season injury wise we'd be looking at 4th comfortably. I have a bit of a soft spot for this Airdrie side and McCabe and they have a great chance on Saturday to pull away from 5th and below, but at the end of the day they aren't much improved from the side we finished miles ahead last season. 

Tbf you are a decent side after seeing playing 5 times this season apart from the pumping in the Scottish cup all games have been tight, but the only difference is you lot are toothless in attack.

Wighton I don’t rate at all see nothing what he does, Jakubiak is quick and causes problems, nae end product, McCann is a good player, still young and will improve he’s a real talent, O’Halloran looks done and Todd is still young…

Defensively you’re sound when everyone is fit midfield without Hamilton and that Otoo, Chalmers is awful imo, Allan I don’t know too much about, Summers and Moffat look good but are more of AMs, Mehmet liability imo should try get an upgrade on him but generally you do have a decent squad. 

[Salvo Montalbano]

37 minutes ago, Parscelona said:

In regards to Reilly, fair enough if Partick were offering a longer deal but they can offer a better package all round than us in our present state, so why waste our time?

What are you basing that on? Partick had financial worries at the start of the season and their most recent accounts don't make for flood reading. They are above us in the table but unlikely to get promoted. I'm not saying that they didn't offer a better overall package than us in terms of wages, length of contract, etc but to say that they can with certainty and that bidding for any player who might end up at another upper level Championship club is a waste of time is just being overly dramatic and unproven IMO.

[par-adise]

11 minutes ago, RRFC_Liam said:

Tbf you are a decent side after seeing playing 5 times this season apart from the pumping in the Scottish cup all games have been tight, but the only difference is you lot are toothless in attack.

Wighton I don’t rate at all see nothing what he does, Jakubiak is quick and causes problems, nae end product, McCann is a good player, still young and will improve he’s a real talent, O’Halloran looks done and Todd is still young…

Defensively you’re sound when everyone is fit midfield without Hamilton and that Otoo, Chalmers is awful imo, Allan I don’t know too much about, Summers and Moffat look good but are more of AMs, Mehmet liability imo should try get an upgrade on him but generally you do have a decent squad. 

Think that is a pretty fair assessment. Only thing to add is that you haven't see the best of Todd and you haven't seen KRH at all. Our two best creative players from last season. It is what it is. 

I still don't think we would have been challenging Raith or Utd over the course of the season but we would be much closer. 

[Double Jack D]

4 minutes ago, par-adise said:

Think that is a pretty fair assessment. Only thing to add is that you haven't see the best of Todd and you haven't seen KRH at all. Our two best creative players from last season. It is what it is. 

I still don't think we would have been challenging Raith or Utd over the course of the season but we would be much closer. 

I'm not sure, the margins in this league are so small that the injury problems you guys have can have a huge impact on league position. Also the added effects of playing players whilst not 100% increases longer term injury risk... Pretty much why Aidan Connolly missed the start of this season for us.

You guys must be hoping for at least a handful of decent additions this January, without it then your season may hinge on the success of the new manager bounce at Gayfield and Hampden.

[CallumPar]

5 minutes ago, Double Jack D said:

the injury problems you guys have can have a huge impact on league position. Also the added effects of playing players whilst not 100% increases longer term injury risk...

This is exactly it. If we’d sorted out at least one defender to come in for the opening of the window, I don’t think we’d have lost to Queens Park. The run of form we’re now on has seen us drop from well clear in 4th (think it was about 5 points), down to 6th and only 6(?) points above bottom. If that doesn’t have the manager/board desperate to get more players in, we have a real problem.

We’re also now dealing with the consequences of forcing players to play 90 minutes when they’ve got a niggle/tightness. Also had players returning and being asked to get straight back into playing 90 minutes every week, just to get another muscular injury. But, due to the size of our squad, we have no other options.

Some of it has been bad luck, I’m not denying that. But some of it seems to be due to the lack of squad depth, forcing players to do too much too soon and ending up out mid/long term again.

It’s annoying. If we’d actually brought in depth in defence in the summer - when everyone could see we needed it, we could focus on our poor attack/goalscoring return. But I just don’t think we can address that this window, as we need to focus on sorting out the defensive options.

[RRFC_Liam]

6 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

This is exactly it. If we’d sorted out at least one defender to come in for the opening of the window, I don’t think we’d have lost to Queens Park. The run of form we’re now on has seen us drop from well clear in 4th (think it was about 5 points), down to 6th and only 6(?) points above bottom. If that doesn’t have the manager/board desperate to get more players in, we have a real problem.

We’re also now dealing with the consequences of forcing players to play 90 minutes when they’ve got a niggle/tightness. Also had players returning and being asked to get straight back into playing 90 minutes every week, just to get another muscular injury. But, due to the size of our squad, we have no other options.

Some of it has been bad luck, I’m not denying that. But some of it seems to be due to the lack of squad depth, forcing players to do too much too soon and ending up out mid/long term again.

It’s annoying. If we’d actually brought in depth in defence in the summer - when everyone could see we needed it, we could focus on our poor attack/goalscoring return. But I just don’t think we can address that this window, as we need to focus on sorting out the defensive options.

The most criminal thing McPake done was for you was throwing Benedictus right back in to the line up in a derby game, it was only gonna go one way for him aye he might say I’m fine to play but it’s the manager should’ve saw it as naw your important sit this one out.

same with us with Big Kev gets injured against Dundee United and before n during the Ayr match and kept playing him I think managers have to do what’s right for the players that crucial to a team if you know what I mean. 

[Cardle is Magic]

1 hour ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

I think it's a combination of 1) we paid for Chalmers, 2) he'll be getting paid more than Allan, 3) he was brought in as someone who specifically is good at keeping possession and 4) he gives an air of someone who doesn't "try" (aka he doesn't run around very much). When you add all that up and look at what he actually brings to the table, it's probably more surprising that he doesn't get even more stick!

Could he get more stick? Only Wighton even comes close in the average supporter scapegoat rankings.

By no means should this be seen as a defence of Chalmers btw - I think he’s been mostly mince this season. It’s just I don’t think he’s been any worse than Allan.