Jim McLean's Ghost Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Walt explicitly says that Jnr's birthday is 10 months and 2 days from now. (Jnr's birthday is on July 8th, Walt's is on September 7th.) He tell Gretchen and Elliot this the night before his 52nd birthday on September 6th 2011. All of that is correct and confirmed within the show, it has been on the Breaking Bad Wiki long before Felina. The dates don't make sense. If everything else was hand waving interpretation this is a glaring factual inconsistency with how the story was told before and after those keys magically fell onto Walter's lap. Edited October 4, 2013 by Jim McLean's Ghost 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Where was Walter Jnr's birthdate previously stated? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Walter Junior's birthday fits in during on precisely July 8th due to what we learn from Felina but it was already known his birthday was approximately around that time due to the timeline of when he got his car on his 16th birthday. People have been paying attention to this show and while they are always coy about dates are explicitly mentioned from the information that has been given a reasonable timeline of events has been constructed. Until the final season when things don't seem to fit together with the last episode. http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline Obviously no show can keep a perfect timeline (except LOST) but there are very few inconsistencies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Okay. So, on this version of the theory, what Walt dreams in his freezing car in New Hampshire is not what would happen if he got it started, but what would have happened if he'd got back to New Mexico several months earlier? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 If you are going to fantasise about where you ar you may as well change when you are. His birthday is very special to him and shows his ego at play. There is no reality that can make sense for it to be Walter's birthday after leaving NH. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainkev Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 The thing about this dream interpretation that bugs me is that people make out that the car being unlocked and the keys being left in the sun mirror is the most ludicrous and implausible thing that could possibly have happened when it's clearly not. It's very plausible that some lazy person just left their keys in the car and the car unlocked. It's not completely far fetched that in a more rural area that some people might feel more comfortable to leave their car open like that. We don't see if Walt tried any other cars before he found that one so it's also possible that he checked sevral other cars before he opened that one and for once got exceptionally lucky in his timing. The criticism of Marie's dialogue with Skyler on the phone is puzzling to me as well as I thought it was perfectly in character of her to be so dismissive and uninterested about other people who are not particularly important to her. And as some have said, if the final episode is pretty much Walt's fantasy, why doesn't he give himself a reconciliation with Walt Jnr. and why doesn't he have any physical interaction with Skyler? Even something as small as a hug or a kiss. Plus at this point, Walt still hates Jesse for being a rat for Hank and starting the chain of events that got Hank killed. I would have thought his sub-conscious would have created a fantasy scenario where Jack and Jesse were working together giving Walt a reason to kill Jesse rather than fantasising about him being reduced to the state of a slave worker. The only explanation I have to offer about the problems with the timeline is that it's a consequence of the fact that the flashforward to Walt's birthday in the diner was written anything else and the writer's didn't know where it was going at that point and in a way that made a rod for their own back as they had to fit in all of season 5 before Walt's 52nd birthday and ultimately they didn't manage it. If it is the case that the timeline is buggered by the finale I still can't say it ruins the episode for me. Btw, I'm gutted if there's a reference to the Sweet Smell of Success in the finale with the Gretchen and Elliot scenes and I missed it. I love that film. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 If the timeline issue was a mistake they would have corrected it, not emphasised it. In fact it was never confirmed it was Walt's birthday until Walter said it in the finale. In the flash forward he gives the waitress a fake ID from New Hampshire when he gets his 52 bacon breakfast. They went as far to have Walt take off his watch for supposed "continuity" reasons but don't fix the massive hole in the time line of events. It is a very large oversight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YER SISTERS YER MAW Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 http://uk.tv.yahoo.com/breaking-bad-fans-place-white-obit-143957052.html Breaking Bad fans have placed an obituary for Walter White in the local newspaper where the show was shot. After the series finished on AMC recently, fans put the obituary for the main character in the Albuquerque Journal. The notice appears with the headline "White, Walter" and includes a photo of Bryan Cranston, the actor who played the chemistry teacher turned drug kingpin in Breaking Bad. It says that the 52-year-old "founded a meth manufacturing empire" and that he died "after a long battle with lung cancer and a gunshot wound." The five-season series was set and filmed in Albuquerque. Los Lunas science teacher David Layman, one of the members of an unofficial fan group that placed the obit, said that many were sad to see the show go, but that the obit helped provide some closure. Too far: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugster Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Explain to me how it is possible that walter returns to new mexico on september the 6th. Really, I mean, really, why would you seriously give a flying f**k? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Walter Junior's birthday fits in during on precisely July 8th due to what we learn from Felina but it was already known his birthday was approximately around that time due to the timeline of when he got his car on his 16th birthday. Right, I'm going to have to watch it again, but as far as I can make out from what I've found online, all of that is a projection on the single reference of Walter Snr's birthdate on the divorce papers. Which is contradicted by other references within the show and is all pretty tenuous. The thing about this dream interpretation that bugs me is that people make out that the car being unlocked and the keys being left in the sun mirror is the most ludicrous and implausible thing that could possibly have happened when it's clearly not. It's very plausible that some lazy person just left their keys in the car and the car unlocked. Bit of a misreprentation of the argument, that. It's not that keys being left in teh visor is a particularly unlikely thing in itself - it's more that than one (rather dreamily filmed) moment represents the beginning of a whole chain of events where things seem to go almost absurdly / supernaturally to plan for Walt. (And also, his lack of self-awareness of that being the case - his "not after tonight" comment to Skylar seemed to imply he thought he had a cast-iron plan to get rid of the Nazis, when any half-second of thought must have revealed it to be a very long shot.) I see the dream sequence as being a perfectly valid alternate interpretation - I don't think it was intended by the writers, but all fiction is metafiction, on some level, and while of course the writers' own thoughts on it are interesting and important from a critical point of view, that doesn't give them a monopoly on interpretation. (I admit I'm also sympathetic to the theory because I agree with Nussbaum that it would actually make for a much better ending.) On the other hand, TSAR's and Jim's efforts to persuade us that this is actually the *right* interpretation, based on building castles on what look like straightforward continuity errors, is all a bit silly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermonkey Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Why are folk arguing about silly pointless things in a great show ? Who gives a f**k about dates ? The show was great and now it's finished. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I see the dream sequence as being a perfectly valid alternate interpretation - I don't think it was intended by the writers, but all fiction is metafiction, on some level, and while of course the writers' own thoughts on it are interesting and important from a critical point of view, that doesn't give them a monopoly on interpretation. (I admit I'm also sympathetic to the theory because I agree with Nussbaum that it would actually make for a much better ending.) On the other hand, TSAR's and Jim's efforts to persuade us that this is actually the *right* interpretation, based on building castles on what look like straightforward continuity errors, is all a bit silly. i think there are too many hints towards the fantasy theory for it to be unintentional. i would wager that they chose to make a story which would satisfy conventional demands but also inspire investigation and discussion in the future. eg. the way that walter tells the scharwzs when junior turns 18 seems designed to encourage speculation on the time frame. the strange photos are also a big hint that they are trying to add mystery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) On the other hand, TSAR's and Jim's efforts to persuade us that this is actually the *right* interpretation, based on building castles on what look like straightforward continuity errors, is all a bit silly.It isn't silly. As people have said any story could be someone's dream. If the world was completely consistent how would you know you we're dreaming or fantasising. To see that a sequence is a dream you need to look for inconsistencies from what you are told about the world. If everything that we saw after the keys dropped in his lap made sense in the world we had already seen the fantasy argument would hold no water. By pointing out the flaws it builds the case that the story is no longer taking place in the world, but instead in Walt's head. Edited October 4, 2013 by Jim McLean's Ghost 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Raccoon Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Walter White and Tony Soprano are the same person in different universes IMO. Think about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainkev Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Right, I'm going to have to watch it again, but as far as I can make out from what I've found online, all of that is a projection on the single reference of Walter Snr's birthdate on the divorce papers. Which is contradicted by other references within the show and is all pretty tenuous. Bit of a misreprentation of the argument, that. It's not that keys being left in teh visor is a particularly unlikely thing in itself - it's more that than one (rather dreamily filmed) moment represents the beginning of a whole chain of events where things seem to go almost absurdly / supernaturally to plan for Walt. (And also, his lack of self-awareness of that being the case - his "not after tonight" comment to Skylar seemed to imply he thought he had a cast-iron plan to get rid of the Nazis, when any half-second of thought must have revealed it to be a very long shot.) I see the dream sequence as being a perfectly valid alternate interpretation - I don't think it was intended by the writers, but all fiction is metafiction, on some level, and while of course the writers' own thoughts on it are interesting and important from a critical point of view, that doesn't give them a monopoly on interpretation. (I admit I'm also sympathetic to the theory because I agree with Nussbaum that it would actually make for a much better ending.) On the other hand, TSAR's and Jim's efforts to persuade us that this is actually the *right* interpretation, based on building castles on what look like straightforward continuity errors, is all a bit silly. But part of the argument is also that the keys falling from the sun mirror is so unlikely that it has to be a dream from that point surely? The thing I found with the finale is that it seemed to be the point at which Walter White's luck changed. I mean, how many times throughout the whole run of Breaking Bad has Walter White been foiled not by clever planning but simple misunderstandings and plain bad luck. Even as recently as the episode where Walt wanted to meet with Jesse and try talk things out, it ended up going badly because a rather intimidating looking man happened to be waiting for to meet his child near to where Walt was. This episode was where for once, Walt got incredibly lucky and everything went his way. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to believe that after the keys fall down that it's a dream, then fair enough. The arguments in favour of that don't convince me. I don't see a huge resemblence to Bryan Cranston in that picture in Gretchen and Elliot's house that T_S_A_R pointed out. I also don't accept that Walt would be able or want to imagine what the state Jesse was in. I'm more inclined to believe that the ending was a result of possible continuity errors and Vince Gilligan giving Walt a happier ending than we thought he would given Gilligan's public statements of disapproval towards the character of Walt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast_Tim Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 I must be in a minority of people who sits and enjoys shows instead of nitpicking every minor fucking detail. Headcases man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 I must be in a minority of people who sits and enjoys shows instead of nitpicking every minor fucking detail. Headcases man. I know. How fucking boring is basing your enjoyment on how watertight and plausible all events are in a television show? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Raccoon Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 I know. How fucking boring is basing your enjoyment on how watertight and plausible all events are in a television show? About as boring as supporting Celtic. Zing! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Anybody else have Badfinger's "Baby Blue" going through their head all week? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradHorse Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Just a thought - the last episode was the only one of the latest batch actually written by Vince Gilligan himself... Maybe he's just not as good a writer as he is an ideas guy? Not as many plot holes and the like in the previous episodes, perhaps he was given 'Creator's honour' on the last episode, despite his perhaps lack of top-drawer talent in the writing department? Don't know what other episodes he's written etc, just a thought as I said. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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