magee84 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The biggest cheat in the history of sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Saw this on twitter:- @Sports_Greats: We have two options, medically & emotionally: give up, or Fight Like Hell. -Lance Armstrong I'd welcome him telling the truth. Better a flawed hero than a liar. Saw cheatstrong as a twitter hashtag today, if he wants a legacy come out and tell the truth. I can understand his lawyers advising him to take the position so that he's not guilty and his contracts with sponsors unaffected, but it's pretty shabby The Fuds that hero worshipped him after reading his book will be binning their live strong bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 So, it hasn't been actually been proved that this guy is a cheat? If that's the case, then this is a disgrace. One of sport's great champions, and an inspiration to those with life-threatening illnesses. The Americans can get right up themselves, but they can't strip titles awarded by someone who isn't within their jursidiction....unless they plan to invade France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 One of sport's great champions, and an inspiration to those with life-threatening illnesses. One of sport's great cheats. Fair play to him - he did it better than the other cheats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 On the other thread someone has posted the list of top five finishers in the Tour De France in the years Armstrong won it - just about all of them have either been found guilty or had strong accusations of doping. Eh...you're really good; you must be on drugs but we have absolutely no proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 So, it hasn't been actually been proved that this guy is a cheat? If that's the case, then this is a disgrace. One of sport's great champions, and an inspiration to those with life-threatening illnesses. The Americans can get right up themselves, but they can't strip titles awarded by someone who isn't within their jursidiction....unless they plan to invade France. As stated above, the USADA are not stripping anyone of anything. Armstrong is just accepting their case. It's a tacit admission of guilt. Titles will be stripped by somebody else if deemed appropriate. Which clearly it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints1884 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 From what I've heard (Radio Scotland this am) the US doping agency has the following evidence Blood test results consistent with doping (no drugs found) 10 of his former team mates who are willing to testify that his was using drugs and was the ringleader I think Armstrong has made the right move in not fighting this as it means he can take the stance on they havent provded anything rather than risk the proceedings and all the dirty linen coming out. Didn't most of his team mates get reduced bans ect for their so called evidance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 It hasn't been proven because Armstrong won't turn up for trial. He doesn't want to teztify under oath and risk opening himself up to perjury charges and he doesn't want the overwhelming evidence of at least ten team mates testifying that doping was rife at US Postal, systematic and that Lance was heavily involved. The USADA has finally got him and will strip him of titles and medals. It is a shame he was never caught when he was competing or his then team mates only testified aftrer being called to Congress or found guilty of doping themselves. What to do with the titles is a tricky question, usually you hand them down but such is the level of doping mos of the top GC rids from that era are guilty too. The USADA has the authority to act as the doping control body for US Olympic sports, their ruling will be upheld through WADA and enforced by the UCI. The UCI might not like it but then they would have to take it to CAS and with Armstrong not interested in defending himself then that seems fruitless. Hopefully some of the testimony about the doping programmes comes out and some evidence of corruption at he UC regarding donations to make failed tests go away. People need to remeber that doping controls can be easily beaten especially at that time with so many people caught not by tests but by sting operations which found the drugs on them. Belief in exceptional performances is always a risky business and Bradley Wiggins fans might be reliving this moment one day because hat last TdF performance was copied straight from US Postal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints1884 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 It hasn't been proven because Armstrong won't turn up for trial. He doesn't want to teztify under oath and risk opening himself up to perjury charges and he doesn't want the overwhelming evidence of at least ten team mates testifying that doping was rife at US Postal, systematic and that Lance was heavily involved. The USADA has finally got him and will strip him of titles and medals. It is a shame he was never caught when he was competing or his then team mates only testified aftrer being called to Congress or found guilty of doping themselves. What to do with the titles is a tricky question, usually you hand them down but such is the level of doping mos of the top GC rids from that era are guilty too. The USADA has the authority to act as the doping control body for US Olympic sports, their ruling will be upheld through WADA and enforced by the UCI. The UCI might not like it but then they would have to take it to CAS and with Armstrong not interested in defending himself then that seems fruitless. Hopefully some of the testimony about the doping programmes comes out and some evidence of corruption at he UC regarding donations to make failed tests go away. People need to remeber that doping controls can be easily beaten especially at that time with so many people caught not by tests but by sting operations which found the drugs on them. Belief in exceptional performances is always a risky business and Bradley Wiggins fans might be reliving this moment one day because hat last TdF performance was copied straight from US Postal. So was Armstrong found in one of these sting operations to have drugs on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamonds2002 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Didn't most of his team mates get reduced bans ect for their so called evidance? My thoughts on the matter are that if it was just one or two of them then fair enough but 10 is pretty damning together with the strange blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints1884 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 My thoughts on the matter are that if it was just one or two of them then fair enough but 10 is pretty damning together with the strange blood. What are the tests they do on the blood and piss test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davie2wheels Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 It hasn't been proven because Armstrong won't turn up for trial. He doesn't want to teztify under oath and risk opening himself up to perjury charges and he doesn't want the overwhelming evidence of at least ten team mates testifying that doping was rife at US Postal, systematic and that Lance was heavily involved. The USADA has finally got him and will strip him of titles and medals. It is a shame he was never caught when he was competing or his then team mates only testified aftrer being called to Congress or found guilty of doping themselves. What to do with the titles is a tricky question, usually you hand them down but such is the level of doping mos of the top GC rids from that era are guilty too. The USADA has the authority to act as the doping control body for US Olympic sports, their ruling will be upheld through WADA and enforced by the UCI. The UCI might not like it but then they would have to take it to CAS and with Armstrong not interested in defending himself then that seems fruitless. Hopefully some of the testimony about the doping programmes comes out and some evidence of corruption at he UC regarding donations to make failed tests go away. People need to remeber that doping controls can be easily beaten especially at that time with so many people caught not by tests but by sting operations which found the drugs on them. Belief in exceptional performances is always a risky business and Bradley Wiggins fans might be reliving this moment one day because hat last TdF performance was copied straight from US Postal. I'm not that sure that the testimony of ten flawed individuals makes any difference to anything. It certainly doesn't increase my faith in the procedure that is being used to finally nail Armstrong. That the UCI will act on recommendation given to it by USADA or WADA is far from a given - Pat McQuaid has been in Armstrong's pocket for years and will never allow any dealings between Armstrong/ UCI to come out. There's no point in dragging this over the coals again by re-awarding his TDF results, you'd probably have to go way down the leader board to find a rider in that era that was demonstrably clean. Just let him bugger off into the distance and take his tawdry history with him. If he could take his (former) mates with him all well and good. Not sure that I agree with the Wiggins analogy though, that seems borne of cynicism given the improvements in testing, the biological passport and Wiggins apparent willingness to publish blood results. More likely to do with the Brailsford inspired boring powerfest that allows them to dominate just like USPS did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamonds2002 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 What are the tests they do on the blood and piss test? This I do not know. What is being reported is that the blood results are consistent with doping without the drugs being there. The cheats are ahead of the testers at the moment so they keep blood samples in cold storage and test them again as technology improves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints1884 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 This I do not know. What is being reported is that the blood results are consistent with doping without the drugs being there. The cheats are ahead of the testers at the moment so they keep blood samples in cold storage and test them again as technology improves. So it's like any other anti doping testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 On the biological passport Wiggins was described as Suspicious with a rating of 5/10. Sky have also made questionable personel decision relating to doctors. Doesn't it seem at least slightly wrong the way Britain have dominated track cycling under Brailsford and now are doing the same on the road. He seems to have an unnatural impact on the performance of riders. The at least ten flawed individuals testified before congress under oath, the USADA has their stories locked in and they are risking jail to lie about it. There can be no doubt that Armstrong cheated and took banned substances. You only need to look at his performances versus caught or admitted cheats, his dubious doctors, his strange UCI donations and his team mates who are now telling the true story of US Postal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Armstrong tested positive for steroids in 1999, but he had a certificate which showed it was a prescription cream for saddle sores. In 2005 a frozen urine sample was tested positive for EPO, but the 'B' sample was mishandled and couldn't be used in evidence. The rest of the evidence just appears to be folk going "He did when I did it.". I think we're still a while away from any title stripping at the moment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raidernation Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 So why is it the US Doping agency that is carrying out this title stripping? I don't know whether he is guilty or not, but something about this case absolutely stinks. Forget WADA, it appears to be the USADA that I should be scared of, what with their authority over Europe. His pee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The process o title stripping has begun, Armstrong has admitted guilt by lack of a defence after his latest court injunction to stop the process failed and he ws told to abide by USADA rules. Once he is formally found guilty, the decision will be passed to the IOC and UCI who will then strip his titles automatically unless either governing body wants to fight the case. Title stripping usually takes a long time because of CAS appsals etc but since none of that will be done by Lance then it is essentially a formality. Lance doesn't want the doping trial on record and he doesn't want to be dragged across the news for days and I doubt the UCI wants their own shady dealing thrust fully into the public domain. Lance is tryin to control this by not participating so his legion of fans can proclaim any sanctions illegitimate and vengeful and that he was never found guilty in a fair fight. Good PR manouvre for him, but it doesn't mean he isn't a cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 If that's the case, then this is a disgrace. One of sport's great champions, and an inspiration to those with life-threatening illnesses. Ooft, this is some mighty desperate straw clutching in the face of reality. Is it only 'inspirations' with a PR machine who get to slither out of taking responsibility for their actions, or should we just presume all cheats are innocent in spite of the evidence against them and their tear-stained refusal to challenge the accusations? No surprise to see that his tactic of poisoning the well with claims of a vandetta have been instantly absorbed by the gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placidcasual Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Is there a reason for doping seeming so prevalent in cycling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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