Lets All Laugh At Rangers Thread

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, Derry Alli said:

Let's not make it out it's just Rangers and Celtic fans. Plenty of times people have posted on here about their own fanbases shouting stuff, be it racist, homophobic or whatever. When asked if they done anything at the time it's always "Nah, there was a few of them/I had my children with me". 

Turning a blind eye and bleating about it online is a problem in our society as a whole. 

Afraid that's a poor comparison, and you can go to a steward or fans' rep to report such behaviour if you fear for your own safety challenging it, can't imagine The Rangers have the same mechanisms for reporting sectarianism at their games. Or any of their stewards or SLO's would be interested in acting on complaints.

The old society whataboutery excuse often gets rolled out whenever anyone challenges the erse cheek fans too, anything to deflect from them owning their own club's sectarian issue, and actively doing something about it.

[Jaggy McJagface]

2 hours ago, Derry Alli said:

Let's not make it out it's just Rangers and Celtic fans. Plenty of times people have posted on here about their own fanbases shouting stuff, be it racist, homophobic or whatever. When asked if they done anything at the time it's always "Nah, there was a few of them/I had my children with me". 

Turning a blind eye and bleating about it online is a problem in our society as a whole. 

You’ll get a few bad apples in any football crowd or walk of life. 
 

This isn’t a good comparison though, because in the case of rangers it’s clearly not just “a few bad apples” engaging in bigotry because a culture of sectarianism remains rife throughout the club at all levels. In many ways the club’s very identity has been built upon it.

Nobody expects people to start squaring up with people in the stand.

[Dons_1988]

14 minutes ago, Jaggy McJagface said:

You’ll get a few bad apples in any football crowd or walk of life. 
 

This isn’t a good comparison though, because in the case of rangers it’s clearly not just “a few bad apples” engaging in bigotry because a culture of sectarianism remains rife throughout the club at all levels. In many ways the club’s very identity has been built upon it.

Nobody expects people to start squaring up with people in the stand.

Yeah I don’t think anyone is judging anyone for not challenging people in the stands. There are plenty of pissed up idiots who are happy to swing a punch at someone who challenges them and that is true of all supports. 

We do know that with enough momentum and enough numbers clubs can be influenced by a fan base, even if they don’t really want to. But the sad fact is there is just not the desire from the non-bigoted element (however big that is) to do so. There’s still a big chunk, I suspect, that find it a bit amusing because it winds up fans they don’t like. 

I still remember being out with my wife (from Belfast, cares not one bit for football or any shit with the troubles) in Edinburgh and 2 guys belting out that they were ‘up to their knees…” and she was genuinely shocked. Couldn’t believe that they felt emboldened to sing that in a city centre. When I said that’s what you get from them most weeks she really couldn’t believe it. 

We underestimate how normalised it is within the game. 

[KirkieRR]

I reember my first away visit to Greyskull on Inverness CT duty, in that miserable wee oxter of the stadium where you are menaced on both sides by standsfull of charmers. The Govan stand belted out all the old Loyalist favourites and on my way out I said to a policeman, 'You'll be reporting the sectarian singing?' and he just blanked and replied, 'Whit sectarian singing?' with a straight face.

[Dons_1988]

12 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

 Greyskull 

[stressball]

Rangers used to have a screening process in regards to the stewards they used . They seem to work very hard to make sure they are  “Rangers minded.”

The kiosk staff is a bit of a free for all and they accept all comers.

Maybe I’m being disingenuous to them though and it’s the security firm they use for their stewards that seem to send predominantly Rangers fans to steward their games.

They did however, a few years back, as for match day volunteers from their support to do stewarding.

[Molotov]

You only need to listen to the disgusting chants towards Harry Kane at Hampden on Tuesday to realise that there are still significant problems at a national level. 
This was not a few drunken bams. By all accounts it is sung on a regular basis.

 

[gannonball]

Given PnB is open to such bigot sympathisers I think @VincentGuerin should do the right thing and boycott the forum imo. Principles and all that.

[Bairnardo]

12 hours ago, Derry Alli said:

Let's not make it out it's just Rangers and Celtic fans. Plenty of times people have posted on here about their own fanbases shouting stuff, be it racist, homophobic or whatever. When asked if they done anything at the time it's always "Nah, there was a few of them/I had my children with me". 

Turning a blind eye and bleating about it online is a problem in our society as a whole. 

Na, there are very few* clubs where it happens in the proportion it does with the cheeks

 

*None IMO but dont want to be speaking in absolutes

[Monkey Tennis]

On 12/09/2023 at 15:35, alta-pete said:

 At 15/16 years old a couple of pals and I got enclosure tickets (can't remember how) for the Dynamo Kiev game. I had never experienced anything like it and I was instantly hooked. Once you've got a team, you're stuck with it I'm afraid.

An interesting choice of game to get you hooked.  

If it's the late 80s game I'm thinking of, it featured incredibly loud, foot stomping renditions of The Billy Boys, complete with gleeful references to "****** blood".   It was a different time and I remember uncritical commentary references to a stunning, incredible atmosphere.  Looked at objectively though, it was pretty toxic and disgusting.  It seems a shame that its effect was so seductive for you.

As for the wider thread, AJF is doing pretty well in fairness.  He's clearly a decent guy, but Vincent is onto something when pointing out that the emperor isn't fully dressed.

I'm not claiming a direct equivalence, because national teams aren't the same as clubs.  Similarly, I don't think the SFA does much to promote vile sentiment for commercial reasons or otherwise.  However, the point about Scotland fan behaviour the other night is not totally without relevance.  It is possible to support a team, safe in the knowledge that lots of arseholes do too:  arseholes who are prepared to act badly in a way that uses that support as a vehicle. 

[alta-pete]

@Monkey Tennis you have a very detailed account of events well beyond mine. And that me as a wide eyed stone cold sober teenager in the ground. I, and I may be wrong but, suspect you’re making up shite to play to the gallery. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by alta-pete

[Monkey Tennis]

6 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

@Monkey Tennis you have a very detailed account of events well beyond mine. And that me as a wide eyed stone cold sober teenager in the ground. I, and I may be wrong but, suspect you’re making up shite to play to the gallery. 

I'm really not.

Is it the same game I'm thinking of?  Falco scored after the goalkeeper made a mess of throwing it out, and McCoist scored a header that he actually misdirected?  If so, we're of similar ages, and I remember it fairly clearly.  

I'm clearly treading a fairly neutral line on the wider question, so your charge doesn't really stick.

[RuMoore]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

Na, there are very few* clubs where it happens in the proportion it does with the cheeks

 

*None IMO but dont want to be speaking in absolutes

My issue with people being so absolute on the matter and saying things like every Rangers fan is a bigot or at least complicit doesn't give way for the fact abhorrent behaviour is clearly relative and exists within most football teams. 

What's the percentage of a fan base that means the non participants of poor behaviour are considered guilty?

I've seen people that refer to fanbases singing about historic battles being ridiculous yet they're happy singing Flower of Scotland with a passion like they fought in the battles themselves. We saw that abhorrent Harry Kane song get sung by a depressingly large percentage of people...

A lot of the larger fanbases have a big percentage of bams that engage in stupid offensive chants or hooliganism, are Hibs fans guilty of supporting a club where a massive proportion of fans sang anti-refugee songs or should Aberdeen fans that are sensible not disassociate with their club due to their fans exuberance when it comes to sectarian terms? 

I think most of the posters on here aren't inclined to engage in the behaviour I've listed above and I don't think they should be held accountable for others actions and words. 

Either we need to judge people as individuals or we need to provide some nerdy xG statistic to determine what level of reprehensible behaviour is allowed before you can support certain clubs. 

 

 

[Monkey Tennis]

22 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

@Monkey Tennis you have a very detailed account of events well beyond mine. And that me as a wide eyed stone cold sober teenager in the ground. I, and I may be wrong but, suspect you’re making up shite to play to the gallery. 

Hey, whaddayaknow?

 

I thought I might have to wait until something happened on the field for the choir to get going, but they instead provide a lovely intro.

By the way, the current conflict in Ukraine must really blow Archie MacPherson's mind. 

[Bairnardo]

4 minutes ago, RuMoore said:

My issue with people being so absolute on the matter and saying things like every Rangers fan is a bigot or at least complicit doesn't give way for the fact abhorrent behaviour is clearly relative and exists within most football teams. 

What's the percentage of a fan base that means the non participants of poor behaviour are considered guilty?

I've seen people that refer to fanbases singing about historic battles being ridiculous yet they're happy singing Flower of Scotland with a passion like they fought in the battles themselves. We saw that abhorrent Harry Kane song get sung by a depressingly large percentage of people...

A lot of the larger fanbases have a big percentage of bams that engage in stupid offensive chants or hooliganism, are Hibs fans guilty of supporting a club where a massive proportion of fans sang anti-refugee songs or should Aberdeen fans that are sensible not disassociate with their club due to their fans exuberance when it comes to sectarian terms? 

I think most of the posters on here aren't inclined to engage in the behaviour I've listed above and I don't think they should be held accountable for others actions and words. 

Either we need to judge people as individuals or we need to provide some nerdy xG statistic to determine what level of reprehensible behaviour is allowed before you can support certain clubs. 

 

 

I think simply put, you would consider both aspects of, is it a minority, and are the club involved doing as much as can be expected to stamp it out. 

Il give you an example. At Falkirk, there's a small number of fans routinely mock the death of Norrie McCathie. I don't believe this is in breach of any laws (but prepared to to educated there). Most Falkrik fans find this abhorrent and the club themselves do to, and have said as much. 

All cross sections of society have a number of arseholes in them. This clearly must apply to all fambases large and small. The test is surely is it endemic, or are the arseholes hugely outnumbered so as not to be the defining characteristics of the fanbase. I'm afraid in Rangers case I don't believe you can answer no to that honestly

 

[RuMoore]

40 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I think simply put, you would consider both aspects of, is it a minority, and are the club involved doing as much as can be expected to stamp it out. 

Il give you an example. At Falkirk, there's a small number of fans routinely mock the death of Norrie McCathie. I don't believe this is in breach of any laws (but prepared to to educated there). Most Falkrik fans find this abhorrent and the club themselves do to, and have said as much. 

All cross sections of society have a number of arseholes in them. This clearly must apply to all fambases large and small. The test is surely is it endemic, or are the arseholes hugely outnumbered so as not to be the defining characteristics of the fanbase. I'm afraid in Rangers case I don't believe you can answer no to that honestly

 

I can't really disagree with any of your post other than I do think of course we have a lot of idiots in the support but they're very loud compared to the normal ones which can of course sway people's perception. 

When it comes to this forum it's pretty obvious the majority of Rangers and celtc fans aren't ones to engage in the bigotry and nonsense so even if the wider fanbases are considered to be filled with wrong uns it's pretty unfair to try and act like the decent ones on here shouldn't be allowed to post and have good faith patter with people and not be tarnished and labelled as bigots straight off the bat. 

[Bairnardo]

14 minutes ago, RuMoore said:

I can't really disagree with any of your post other than I do think of course we have a lot of idiots in the support but they're very loud compared to the normal ones which can of course sway people's perception. 

When it comes to this forum it's pretty obvious the majority of Rangers and celtc fans aren't ones to engage in the bigotry and nonsense so even if the wider fanbases are considered to be filled with wrong uns it's pretty unfair to try and act like the decent ones on here shouldn't be allowed to post and have good faith patter with people and not be tarnished and labelled as bigots straight off the bat. 

Yeah, I mean I sort of agree with the overarching principle that unfortunately for the decent fans, they are tarred with the brush because they are in there with their eyes open. The idea of taking your kids there for example is one I simply cannot reconcile. But that said, no one is perfect, and turning a blind eye to shite behaviour in a football stadium isn't going to see me personally shun an otherwise decent person. I think anyone who says otherwise is probably at it to an extent since we all must know a fuckload of arse cheek fans in real life. 

As a Club in general terms tho, Rangers are fucking rancid and I reserve the right to hate them.  

[MarkoRaj]

[bennett]

4 minutes ago, MarkoRaj said:

Lee is right, most of us mix through friendships and relationships and can seperate a game of fitba from real life.

 

As for the other guy, words fail me. 

[Jinky67]

You either want to tackle the problem as a whole no matter where, when and by how many. The minority/majority argument is a convienience to keep the focus centred in a specific direction.

Are there clubs with bigger issues? Yes however the approach and penalties for this sort of behaviour should be consistent if you every really want to tackle it