Lets All Laugh At Rangers Thread

[Jaggy McJagface]

53 minutes ago, Ziggy Sobotka said:

It is a societal issue. It just manifests itself more noticeably within football (or more particularly within a couple of clubs) these days.

Football is the only thing that continues to give it oxygen.
 

Sectarianism in Scotland came about due to a lot of political, cultural, economic and religious friction due to large scale immigration from Ireland (from both communities) and the nativist anti-Catholic response to that immigration.

Nowadays basically nobody goes to church, and the vast majority of those descended from Irish immigrants see themselves as primarily Scottish and are accepted as such. Catholics and Protestants no longer compete for jobs or political influence as they did in most of the 20th century.

In short, most of these societal issues that led to sectarianism being rife in Scotland no longer meaningfully exist.

There’s zero reason for young guys in the 21st century to be singing about the troubles or the UVF or whoever else as it’s completely irrelevant to their lived experience. The only reason they do that is because they think that’s what they need to be into in order to be a “proper Rangers man”.

 

A large portion of the sectarianism you still see in Scotland is essentially a hangover from this period that is kept around because the two biggest football clubs based their identity around exploiting these cultural issues to build their support bases when they were still relevant, and neither have made an effort to shed them.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

49 minutes ago, Jaggy McJagface said:

Football is the only thing that continues to give it oxygen.
 

Sectarianism in Scotland came about due to a lot of political, cultural, economic and religious friction due to large scale immigration from Ireland (from both communities) and the nativist anti-Catholic response to that immigration.

Nowadays basically nobody goes to church, and the vast majority of those descended from Irish immigrants see themselves as primarily Scottish and are accepted as such. Catholics and Protestants no longer compete for jobs or political influence as they did in most of the 20th century.

In short, most of these societal issues that led to sectarianism being rife in Scotland no longer meaningfully exist.

There’s zero reason for young guys in the 21st century to be singing about the troubles or the UVF or whoever else as it’s completely irrelevant to their lived experience. The only reason they do that is because they think that’s what they need to be into in order to be a “proper Rangers man”.

 

A large portion of the sectarianism you still see in Scotland is essentially a hangover from this period that is kept around because the two biggest football clubs based their identity around exploiting these cultural issues to build their support bases when they were still relevant, and neither have made an effort to shed them.

 

100% this.

The football situation can longer be realistically said to really reflect views in wider society.  Instead it's a driver of the more backward ones.

I think that without our two biggest football clubs being so explicitly aligned, sectarianism along these lines would scarcely exist anymore in Scotland.  

 

[Dons_1988]

37 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

100% this.

The football situation can longer be realistically said to really reflect views in wider society.  Instead it's a driver of the more backward ones.

I think that without our two biggest football clubs being so explicitly aligned, sectarianism along these lines would scarcely exist anymore in Scotland.  

 

I grew up in Aberdeen and this sort of thing just doesn’t exist. If you ever hear sectarian terms it’s in relation to football. Not that I’m condoning it but outside football there is simply no societal issue up here or at the very least it’s minimal. 

[Monkey Tennis]

14 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I grew up in Aberdeen and this sort of thing just doesn’t exist. If you ever hear sectarian terms it’s in relation to football. Not that I’m condoning it but outside football there is simply no societal issue up here or at the very least it’s minimal. 

It's much the same down here.

Any sectarian sentiment only appears if it's alongside football.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

38 minutes ago, Jaggy McJagface said:

Football is the only thing that continues to give it oxygen.
 

Sectarianism in Scotland came about due to a lot of political, cultural, economic and religious friction due to large scale immigration from Ireland (from both communities) and the nativist anti-Catholic response to that immigration.

Nowadays basically nobody goes to church, and the vast majority of those descended from Irish immigrants see themselves as primarily Scottish and are accepted as such. Catholics and Protestants no longer compete for jobs or political influence as they did in most of the 20th century.

In short, most of these societal issues that led to sectarianism being rife in Scotland no longer meaningfully exist.

Well aye, that's what I'm saying, it's a radicalised minority now which is mostly confined to football, the Orange Order and other minor groups due to rapid secularisation and the decline of associational life, including churches, big employers, trade unions and other organisations, rather than the wider economic, social and cultural foundations it came from in Industrial Scotland, back when employment, electoral preferences and personal relationships could be strongly and widely determined by ethno-religious affiliations.

It's still a societal issue though even if it has been mostly reduced to a Public Order issue surrounding football and marches.

1 hour ago, Jaggy McJagface said:

There’s zero reason for young guys in the 21st century to be singing about the troubles or the UVF or whoever else as it’s completely irrelevant to their lived experience. The only reason they do that is because they think that’s what they need to be into in order to be a “proper Rangers man”.

People and groups sing, march protest etc about many things that are completely irrelevant to their 'lived experience'. There's also the fact in this instance that it will be a 'lived experience' for some of the wider 'group'.

That's not to say I don't find Scottish football fans singing about Irish civil wars and their various militias and terrorists extremely silly.

 

[RawB93]

12 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

personally I thought it was doss.

@mods

[GTee]

So. In summary. Rangers and Celtic profit by being complicit in promoting sectarianism within their support.

Is this true?

[Lurkst]

18 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

think that without our two biggest football clubs being so explicitly aligned, sectarianism along these lines would scarcely exist anymore in Scotland.  

Nipped into the Blue Lagoon last night for a badly needed chip roll. Young lad aged around 20 behind me read the menu and couldn't resist a Bobby Sands chicken supper comment.

[Shotgun]

On 15/09/2023 at 18:44, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

If you look up what ‘bigotry’ actually means, you’ll often find that the self-proclaimed anti-bigots are the biggest bigots themselves.

"Calling Cards of Morons" thread for this pish.

[10menwent2mow]

On 16/09/2023 at 16:39, Dons_1988 said:

I grew up in Aberdeen and this sort of thing just doesn’t exist. If you ever hear sectarian terms it’s in relation to football. Not that I’m condoning it but outside football there is simply no societal issue up here or at the very least it’s minimal. 

Guy I went to Uni with was from the West Coast and he came up to stay with me and my folks for a gig in Aberdeen. When we returned to Glasgow he was horrified to find that my mum was brought up a Catholic and my dad Church of Scotland. This was the early to mid 2000's. 

I thought he was kidding to start with but he was proper pissed off he'd slept in a house that was a mixed marriage. Neither of my parents had gone to Kirk/chapel since they were kids other than weddings or funerals but apparently it was still unacceptable. It just blew my mind. 

[Ooooft.]

23 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said:

Guy I went to Uni with was from the West Coast and he came up to stay with me and my folks for a gig in Aberdeen. When we returned to Glasgow he was horrified to find that my mum was brought up a Catholic and my dad Church of Scotland. This was the early to mid 2000's. 

I thought he was kidding to start with but he was proper pissed off he'd slept in a house that was a mixed marriage. Neither of my parents had gone to Kirk/chapel since they were kids other than weddings or funerals but apparently it was still unacceptable. It just blew my mind. 

I hope you ditched him after that nonsense.

[10menwent2mow]

11 minutes ago, Ooooft. said:

I hope you ditched him after that nonsense.

Still had to live with him for another year. 

[Monkey Tennis]

Worth a bump, if only for Beale's remark about "losing to a club like Aberdeen".  

it's not that long ago that they were losing to clubs like Annan Athletic.

[Ooooft.]

[Otis Blue]

On 16/09/2023 at 15:01, Jaggy McJagface said:

Football is the only thing that continues to give it oxygen.
 

Sectarianism in Scotland came about due to a lot of political, cultural, economic and religious friction due to large scale immigration from Ireland (from both communities) and the nativist anti-Catholic response to that immigration.

Nowadays basically nobody goes to church, and the vast majority of those descended from Irish immigrants see themselves as primarily Scottish and are accepted as such. Catholics and Protestants no longer compete for jobs or political influence as they did in most of the 20th century.

In short, most of these societal issues that led to sectarianism being rife in Scotland no longer meaningfully exist.

There’s zero reason for young guys in the 21st century to be singing about the troubles or the UVF or whoever else as it’s completely irrelevant to their lived experience. The only reason they do that is because they think that’s what they need to be into in order to be a “proper Rangers man”.

 

A large portion of the sectarianism you still see in Scotland is essentially a hangover from this period that is kept around because the two biggest football clubs based their identity around exploiting these cultural issues to build their support bases when they were still relevant, and neither have made an effort to shed them.

 

Good post @Jaggy McJagface.

Only thing I'd not quite agree with is the ... "most of these societal issues that led to sectarianism being rife in Scotland no longer meaningfully exist" ... part.

I've lived and worked in the Glasgow area for the past 30 years and I was also a student in Glasgow in the late 70s, so I've quite a lot of first hand experience of this.  True, some of the cultural drivers have changed (eg less folk physically going to places of worship now), but for me this remains a deep rooted societal problem.  Couple of examples:

As recent as five years ago I had a young engineer (Celtic fan) working for me and he told me that when he left school and started his apprenticeship with a previous employer the first thing he was asked on his first day at the first tea break was ... what school did you go to son?  It's still the top subject in the Glasgow area - which side are you on?  Folk like me (a QOS fan) who choose to differ and no doubt the Thistle fans also, just get strange looks when we say we support other clubs.

When Rangers were floundering in the Championship a few years back I took my 14 year old son to Palmerston to watch them getting humbled by QOS.  During the game we were subjected to the Ibrox hordes renditions of quaint folk songs about Bobby Sands.  Depressingly, I found myself having to explain to my 14 year old at a football match who Bobby Sands was and why they were singing about it.  The most depressing part though was that the Ibrox mob looked between 17 and 25 years old - ie they weren't even alive during the Bobby Sands saga.  So obviously this stuff gets passed down from their elder family members/friends.

So here's the problem - this hatred (for hatred it surely is) is deeply, deeply rooted in society and on both sides of the divide.  I wish I was intelligent enough to offer a solution but sadly I can't think of one.  I'm sure that the clubs could do more (but would risk alienating their followers), their religious faith leaders could do more (but would risk alienating their congregations) and having separate schooling can't help either (just emphasises and stokes differences and division).  So for me this is a societal problem and it shows no sign of abating from the evidence I've seen.  It's all very sad to see this continuing into the 21st century.

[Dosser1886]

On 16/09/2023 at 15:01, Jaggy McJagface said:

Football is the only thing that continues to give it oxygen.
 

Sectarianism in Scotland came about due to a lot of political, cultural, economic and religious friction due to large scale immigration from Ireland (from both communities) and the nativist anti-Catholic response to that immigration.

Nowadays basically nobody goes to church, and the vast majority of those descended from Irish immigrants see themselves as primarily Scottish and are accepted as such. Catholics and Protestants no longer compete for jobs or political influence as they did in most of the 20th century.

In short, most of these societal issues that led to sectarianism being rife in Scotland no longer meaningfully exist.

There’s zero reason for young guys in the 21st century to be singing about the troubles or the UVF or whoever else as it’s completely irrelevant to their lived experience. The only reason they do that is because they think that’s what they need to be into in order to be a “proper Rangers man”.

 

A large portion of the sectarianism you still see in Scotland is essentially a hangover from this period that is kept around because the two biggest football clubs based their identity around exploiting these cultural issues to build their support bases when they were still relevant, and neither have made an effort to shed them.

 

Agree with this but I think a lot of them, sing the songs etc...and it is nothing to do with any alignment or belief in anything other than annoying the f**k out of everyone else especially the other arse cheek. They sing the songs we boo, on repeat at every ground around the country, tedious, pathetic and predictable all at the same time.

[LIVIFOREVER]

22 minutes ago, Dosser1886 said:

Agree with this but I think a lot of them, sing the songs etc...and it is nothing to do with any alignment or belief in anything other than annoying the f**k out of everyone else especially the other arse cheek. They sing the songs we boo, on repeat at every ground around the country, tedious, pathetic and predictable all at the same time.

That's certainly true of GSTK, the other stuff though, it's indoctrinated into their fans that it has to be sung, maybe not going deep into the true meaning of what they're singing, but that it is anti Celtic and part of who they are.

[Girth]

Stevie Bruce being touted!? Lovely. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

Accies upsetting Sevco putting up their proper name. 

 

[LIVIFOREVER]

Lest we forget.