Sons' sorrow

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

What a load of absolute nonsense. What the hell is an “investment team”? What’s in this for JPM Capital or this Paul McPherson character? 

Neil McKay being our chairman terrifies me. He’s a deluded old fool and a total yes man for our dodgy owners. He consistently peddles utter shite and expects us to take it in like soup. This is just one in a long line of daft statements he’s made that are an insult to supporters intelligence. 

[Clarko_son]

"Leverage cutting-edge technology" just what the f**k is that all about. It's league 2 not cyber warfare. Fairly sure Stirling won the league by having a better and more consistent team than us, rather than a massive R&D advantage.

Technology, internet and fan engagement being so close together absolutely stinks of NFTs as well. I'm fairly sure it won't be that... Well hoping anyway. 

[THE CHOSEN SON]

1 hour ago, Silverton End said:

Basically a Loans Company 

https://www.jpmcapital.co.uk/

https://thenewsfront.com/sme-loans-has-been-acquired-by-jpm-capital-limited-as-both-businesses-look-to-consolidate-strengths-and-provide-business-finance-across-the-uk/

 

I could be jumping to conclusions here but a loans company appearing at the same time as promises of an artificial pitch is dodgy… I seriously hope we’re not borrowing money from this lot. 

An artificial pitch should absolutely be a target for us but not if it means borrowing money - we should be looking at grants and community funding.

[BallochSonsFan]

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Hosie has brought him in to try and help find a buyer. I wouldn't be shocked to see him try to cut and run if his planning application is refused.

[Dawnda62859]

"developing our Castle Road home"  whilst an application sits with WDC planning for building houses.  

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Dawnda62859

[Sweet Pete]

Buzzing for our new fly by night invisible temporary overlords.

[Deputy Keeper]

1 hour ago, Clarko_son said:

"Leverage cutting-edge technology" just what the f**k is that all about. It's league 2 not cyber warfare. Fairly sure Stirling won the league by having a better and more consistent team than us, rather than a massive R&D advantage.

Technology, internet and fan engagement being so close together absolutely stinks of NFTs as well. I'm fairly sure it won't be that... Well hoping anyway. 

Mr McPherson is also a Director of a Company called Sure Bets Pro Ltd.  A company that tells you how to beat the bookies through the best arbitrage and matched betting software....................now hang on a minute, I seem to recall a former company offering something similar,  Bet Waiter maybe,  or was it  Bet Butler?

[Paul Mc]

Hi All,

First time poster. Paul McPherson here from JPM. I’ve spent a lot of time reading the history of this forum the last few weeks as I waited for the announcement.

Obviously I totally understand the reaction and wasn’t expecting anything different. 
To answer a few comments JPM is literally Jamie, Paul, Mike - the founders. Nothing to do with JP Morgan although I’ve heard that comment before so it did make me laugh.  
We are indeed just a loans company, but a fairly successful one and one thing we do is we compete against much bigger banks and finance houses with what resources we have. I’ve always loved fighting the big boys and maximising everywhere we can with our vastly smaller resources. Hopefully that mentality transfers across.
 

To be clear I’m no saviour. We are minor investors and I’ll be a junior member of the board. I’m no oligarch or oil Barron I’m afraid!
But my intentions are good and it’s a long term project I’m interested in.

I notice a few comments about the stadium. As far as I am concerned the stadium move is off the table for now. Not saying it wouldn’t be revisited in the future but all efforts in the short-medium term will be directed towards improving current ground. And no, JPM will not be funding that project. 
 

I know there is a lot of distrust and probably some good reasons for that. You don’t build those bridges over night. But I’m an open book, I’ll pop in here when I can but also feel free to drop me an email Paul@jpmcapital.co.uk 

Will be sorting an @dumbarton email soon I’ll update you with that shortly. 
Feel free to email any time, I am finding my feet but I will communicate where and when I can. 
Popping up to the game on Saturday too, so hopefully meet some of you then.

Paul

[pleslie99]

37 minutes ago, Paul Mc said:

Hi All,

First time poster. Paul McPherson here from JPM. I’ve spent a lot of time reading the history of this forum the last few weeks as I waited for the announcement.

Obviously I totally understand the reaction and wasn’t expecting anything different. 
To answer a few comments JPM is literally Jamie, Paul, Mike - the founders. Nothing to do with JP Morgan although I’ve heard that comment before so it did make me laugh.  
We are indeed just a loans company, but a fairly successful one and one thing we do is we compete against much bigger banks and finance houses with what resources we have. I’ve always loved fighting the big boys and maximising everywhere we can with our vastly smaller resources. Hopefully that mentality transfers across.
 

To be clear I’m no saviour. We are minor investors and I’ll be a junior member of the board. I’m no oligarch or oil Barron I’m afraid!
But my intentions are good and it’s a long term project I’m interested in.

I notice a few comments about the stadium. As far as I am concerned the stadium move is off the table for now. Not saying it wouldn’t be revisited in the future but all efforts in the short-medium term will be directed towards improving current ground. And no, JPM will not be funding that project. 
 

I know there is a lot of distrust and probably some good reasons for that. You don’t build those bridges over night. But I’m an open book, I’ll pop in here when I can but also feel free to drop me an email Paul@jpmcapital.co.uk 

Will be sorting an @dumbarton email soon I’ll update you with that shortly. 
Feel free to email any time, I am finding my feet but I will communicate where and when I can. 
Popping up to the game on Saturday too, so hopefully meet some of you then.

Paul

Forgive us, but until you prove you are not another charlatan wanting a quick buck I for one will be holding you in the same contempt as the rest of our useless board! Feel free to prove me wrong. 

[Paul Mc]

23 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

Forgive us, but until you prove you are not another charlatan wanting a quick buck I for one will be holding you in the same contempt as the rest of our useless board! Feel free to prove me wrong. 

Nothing to forgive and I’m here for the long haul. 

I dont know yet how competent the board are in the same way that they don’t know how competent I am. But I can only say they have been welcoming, friendly and warm and I believe they are open to the idea of progressive change. 
Ps. If you figure out how to make a quick buck out of a Scottish div2 team let me know…

[Frank Quitely]

1 hour ago, Paul Mc said:

Hi All,

First time poster. Paul McPherson here from JPM. I’ve spent a lot of time reading the history of this forum the last few weeks as I waited for the announcement.

Obviously I totally understand the reaction and wasn’t expecting anything different. 
To answer a few comments JPM is literally Jamie, Paul, Mike - the founders. Nothing to do with JP Morgan although I’ve heard that comment before so it did make me laugh.  
We are indeed just a loans company, but a fairly successful one and one thing we do is we compete against much bigger banks and finance houses with what resources we have. I’ve always loved fighting the big boys and maximising everywhere we can with our vastly smaller resources. Hopefully that mentality transfers across.
 

To be clear I’m no saviour. We are minor investors and I’ll be a junior member of the board. I’m no oligarch or oil Barron I’m afraid!
But my intentions are good and it’s a long term project I’m interested in.

I notice a few comments about the stadium. As far as I am concerned the stadium move is off the table for now. Not saying it wouldn’t be revisited in the future but all efforts in the short-medium term will be directed towards improving current ground. And no, JPM will not be funding that project. 
 

I know there is a lot of distrust and probably some good reasons for that. You don’t build those bridges over night. But I’m an open book, I’ll pop in here when I can but also feel free to drop me an email Paul@jpmcapital.co.uk 

Will be sorting an @dumbarton email soon I’ll update you with that shortly. 
Feel free to email any time, I am finding my feet but I will communicate where and when I can. 
Popping up to the game on Saturday too, so hopefully meet some of you then.

Paul

Welcome Paul to Pie & Bovril, and the Sons Sorrow thread.  The last Director who took to the keyboard here lasted about as long as a Usain Bolt sprint, so you have a very low bar.

Two quick questions to get us going; who and what attracted a Chester-based businessman to a small football club over 200 miles away, and secondly, what exactly do we need 'saved' from ?

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, Paul Mc said:

Hi All,

First time poster. Paul McPherson here from JPM. I’ve spent a lot of time reading the history of this forum the last few weeks as I waited for the announcement.

Obviously I totally understand the reaction and wasn’t expecting anything different. 
To answer a few comments JPM is literally Jamie, Paul, Mike - the founders. Nothing to do with JP Morgan although I’ve heard that comment before so it did make me laugh.  
We are indeed just a loans company, but a fairly successful one and one thing we do is we compete against much bigger banks and finance houses with what resources we have. I’ve always loved fighting the big boys and maximising everywhere we can with our vastly smaller resources. Hopefully that mentality transfers across.
 

To be clear I’m no saviour. We are minor investors and I’ll be a junior member of the board. I’m no oligarch or oil Barron I’m afraid!
But my intentions are good and it’s a long term project I’m interested in.

I notice a few comments about the stadium. As far as I am concerned the stadium move is off the table for now. Not saying it wouldn’t be revisited in the future but all efforts in the short-medium term will be directed towards improving current ground. And no, JPM will not be funding that project. 
 

I know there is a lot of distrust and probably some good reasons for that. You don’t build those bridges over night. But I’m an open book, I’ll pop in here when I can but also feel free to drop me an email Paul@jpmcapital.co.uk 

Will be sorting an @dumbarton email soon I’ll update you with that shortly. 
Feel free to email any time, I am finding my feet but I will communicate where and when I can. 
Popping up to the game on Saturday too, so hopefully meet some of you then.

Paul

Hello Paul, thank you very much for engaging with us, I have a lot of respect for that. If you know about the hsitory of the club and indeed this thread then you'll know that we've been passed around various dodgy businessmen for the best part of 15 years now so automatically we view anything new with extreme caution. 

I have similar questions to Frank before me, what exactly brings you north of the border to invest in Dumbarton FC? You also say you're here for the long haul and the stadium move is off the table, so with that in mind can you outline what you would like to achieve with Dumbarton?

[the snudge]

13 minutes ago, Paul Mc said:

Nothing to forgive and I’m here for the long haul. 

I dont know yet how competent the board are in the same way that they don’t know how competent I am. But I can only say they have been welcoming, friendly and warm and I believe they are open to the idea of progressive change. 
Ps. If you figure out how to make a quick buck out of a Scottish div2 team let me know…

Quick buck? Probably sell the ground, possibly to a housing development company, with promises of a new ground in Renton. 

Sounds all too familiar. 

How are you funding the astro? What will you be adding to the playing budget? Why have you decided to connect with DFC when as far as I know you have no connection. What relationship do you have with Mr Hosie?

Edited August 6, 2023 by the snudge

[Paul Mc]

24 minutes ago, Frank Quitely said:

Welcome Paul to Pie & Bovril, and the Sons Sorrow thread.  The last Director who took to the keyboard here lasted about as long as a Usain Bolt sprint, so you have a very low bar.

Two quick questions to get us going; who and what attracted a Chester-based businessman to a small football club over 200 miles away, and secondly, what exactly do we need 'saved' from ?

Thanks for the welcome.

Can’t say I made it far enough back in the chat to see that a former director had engaged like this. Here’s me thinking I’m being different!

I am based in Chester but I am born and bred Scottish. I studied sports at Liverpool John Moores Uni and I ended up working and having a family down south. But I’m a passionate Scottish football fan. Travel with the Tartan Army with my dad & from a personal perspective it’s nice for me to build some roots back in Scotland for my kids who grow up with this weird hybrid Chester accent! 
Football is in my blood and I always intended on working in football when I sold my company. This came along earlier than I planned but the more I looked at it the more I felt I could really add something here.

As for the saviour comment. Fair enough, maybe badly phrased. I don’t think the club needs to be saved as such, but it is more to say I am aware of false dawns, or lofty promises in this club and others. I don’t want to do that, I’m realistic that I’m here to help and hopefully improve some areas along the way. 

[Paul Mc]

26 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Hello Paul, thank you very much for engaging with us, I have a lot of respect for that. If you know about the hsitory of the club and indeed this thread then you'll know that we've been passed around various dodgy businessmen for the best part of 15 years now so automatically we view anything new with extreme caution. 

I have similar questions to Frank before me, what exactly brings you north of the border to invest in Dumbarton FC? You also say you're here for the long haul and the stadium move is off the table, so with that in mind can you outline what you would like to achieve with Dumbarton?

Hopefully I answered a lot of that already. 
In terms of what I want to achieve. Stable, championship club. 
How to do it is the bigger question. For me the goal is getting at least a core of a full time team. In order to get there you need to get the commercials right and in order to get the commercials right the club philosophy & strategy need be in place and align. I want all aspects of the club to work in conjunction with one another, that includes the fans pulling in the same direction.

But how can the fans pull in the direction of the club if they either (a) don’t know what the direction is or (b) vehemently disagree with the direction? ( I hear you say). Those are problems I want to tackle…

[Paul Mc]

32 minutes ago, the snudge said:

Quick buck? Probably sell the ground, possibly to a housing development company, with promises of a new ground in Renton. 

Sounds all too familiar. 

How are you funding the astro? What will you be adding to the playing budget? Why have you decided to connect with DFC when as far as I know you have no connection. What relationship do you have with Mr Hosie?

I think the proposed artificial surface is proof positive that we are committed to the current ground. But again I understand the unease about this hopefully that confidence is built over time. 
 

The artificial surface honestly merits its own announcement separate to this discussion. Im not being evasive just not my place to say. This is a project which benefits the entire community but as much as I can say now is JPM are not funding it. I will commit to returning to that question when I have authority to do so. 
Not been involved in playing budget but I suspect the signing at the weekend wouldn’t have happened without our investment. Don’t know that for sure I haven’t been involved. I can say that all the investment monies went straight into Dumbarton for operation funds. How they are allocated I don’t know yet.

No relationship with any Hosie I had not heard of the Hosies a month ago. Everyone I have met has been first class and seem to absolutely have the best interests of the club at heart. I wouldn’t have gotten involved if I thought otherwise.

[Frank Quitely]

Thanks for your replies thus far Paul, we appreciate them. 

Whilst I welcome your interest and of course investment in a Scottish club, and ours in particular, it doesn't really answer my first question above.  So, rephrasing, did you approach DFC or were you approached to come on board ?

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Frank Quitely

[Boghead ranter]

11 minutes ago, Paul Mc said:

I think the proposed artificial surface is proof positive that we are committed to the current ground. But again I understand the unease about this hopefully that confidence is built over time. 
 

The artificial surface honestly merits its own announcement separate to this discussion. Im not being evasive just not my place to say. This is a project which benefits the entire community but as much as I can say now is JPM are not funding it. I will commit to returning to that question when I have authority to do so. 
Not been involved in playing budget but I suspect the signing at the weekend wouldn’t have happened without our investment. Don’t know that for sure I haven’t been involved. I can say that all the investment monies went straight into Dumbarton for operation funds. How they are allocated I don’t know yet.

No relationship with any Hosie I had not heard of the Hosies a month ago. Everyone I have met has been first class and seem to absolutely have the best interests of the club at heart. I wouldn’t have gotten involved if I thought otherwise.

Hi Paul, I'd echo the previous thanks to you for actually engaging with us ordinary fans in a public forum.

To take your final paragraph 1st, if that's true, and you're as honest and decent a guy as you're portraying yourself to be, then I really really hope that you haven't been rope-a-doped into something that works out poorly for you.

You also said you didn't read far enough back to see that a previous director engaged on here for a short while, if you had done (and maybe even further back), you'd see that promises like today's release have been made, and not delivered on, many, many times.

Us fans want success, stability and security for the club even more than you do, we really do, and there's nothing we'd like more than this vision to be delivered.

BUT

Every time a promise dissipates into the void, only to be remembered in this thread, our belief in the next promise is lessened. Then that promise isn't delivered, so belief drops more. You seem an intelligent guy, so I'm not going to labour the point, you know what I mean. I appreciate this post may come across as "GTF, we've heard all this before", but it isn't meant that way, honestly.

Words typed on the club website or on here are exactly that, just words. The only thing that will get fans believing, and sharing your vision, is actual tangible progress towards it. Seeing confirmation of an all-weather pitch* (particularly if we're working on a groundshare model of financing) would be a great start, imo.

*PS I see the fans Facebook group comments seem to be mostly settling on "f**k astro, keep the grass" but please don't take too much stock in that group - a high percentage of them are absolute knickerwetting roasters.

[Paul Mc]

Just now, Frank Quitely said:

Thanks for your replies thus far Paul, we appreciate them. 

Whilst I welcome your interest and of course investment in a Scottish club, and ours in particular, it doesn't really answer my first question above.  So, rephrasing, did you approach DFC or were you approached to come on board ?

If it's the latter then I really hope you have conducted due diligence on the club ownership.

Neither really. Mutual friends mentioned the opportunity, made an introduction. Conversations were balanced it had to be right for both sides. 

Yes I have done thorough due diligence and I have sought certain reassurances along the way. 
 

Not to bore you but I analyse businesses for my day job. And I’m fairly good at it. I write credit policies for lending operations so I know what to look for in terms of red flags. And there are plenty of them I am not naive.

This is much more of a heart than head investment, but I wouldn’t have got involved if I believed the background issues were legally or morally problematic.

[The Moonster]

27 minutes ago, Paul Mc said:

Hopefully I answered a lot of that already. 
In terms of what I want to achieve. Stable, championship club. 
How to do it is the bigger question. For me the goal is getting at least a core of a full time team. In order to get there you need to get the commercials right and in order to get the commercials right the club philosophy & strategy need be in place and align. I want all aspects of the club to work in conjunction with one another, that includes the fans pulling in the same direction.

But how can the fans pull in the direction of the club if they either (a) don’t know what the direction is or (b) vehemently disagree with the direction? ( I hear you say). Those are problems I want to tackle…

I admire your ambition and perhaps we are missing something commercially that would help boost funds but going to even a hybrid full time/part time side would require a huge investment and an organisation level we probably haven't seen in my life time of 34 years. For years now we have been run by one or two people at any given time and to get to the level you are talking we need more than what we have. How much do you plan on being involved, with it noted you've said you'll be a junior member of the board?

One final question, are you aware of the situation with the clubs land and are you comfortable with our liabilities in that respect?