Sons' sorrow

[Howlin' Wilf]

We were third in the playoff season, Airdrie were 4th.

Completely agree with the rest of your post.

Regardless we got promoted convincingly and on merit under the rules. I'm not certain what point OK3 was trying to make here.

[Sweet Pete]

Regardless we got promoted convincingly and on merit under the rules. I'm not certain what point OK3 was trying to make here.

It's pretty clear what point he's trying to make, and he made it well. The chief exec may well have been appointed by Brabco, but Brabco, by the chairman's own admission, have contributed nothing, not a penny, to DFC. Therefore, as OKIII points out, the work of the people who run the club day to day, the chief exec, the chairman, the board, the manager, coaches and players are to be credited with the relative current success we are enjoying. At most you could say that Brabco deserve credit for appointing a steward under whom we have enjoyed a good period.

[The Moonster]

And yet their time at the Rock has coincided with the club's highest standing in the game in 30 years. Or maybe folk preferred Neil Rankine?

I think you're missing the point a bit Wilf. I've said before that we cannot assume that success on the pitch means that they've got a clue what they're doing with regards to a stadium move. Saying " aye but what about Rankine" is neither here nor there. And when stories come out about their other businesses going down the tubes (when it could have been saved) it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

You've said Gilbert is paid by Brabco, so he'll do what his employers ask of him with regards to any move, yes? If he won't, then why would they pay him? Again, it doesn't fill me with confidence.

"What was the alternative?" was something trotted out by Jardine at the meeting and in all honesty, I don't care what the alternative was. I don't care that Jardine thought we got the better of two shite deals at that time. We need to deal with what we've got now and looking back saying "things could be worse" won't help anything.

[Howlin' Wilf]

It's pretty clear what point he's trying to make, and he made it well. The chief exec may well have been appointed by Brabco, but Brabco, by the chairman's own admission, have contributed nothing, not a penny, to DFC. Therefore, as OKIII points out, the work of the people who run the club day to day, the chief exec, the chairman, the board, the manager, coaches and players are to be credited with the relative current success we are enjoying. At most you could say that Brabco deserve credit for appointing a steward under whom we have enjoyed a good period.

They have contributed nothing, not a penny to DFC?

I understand that Brabco pick up the tab for the chief exec's salary.....

Of course we have a hard working board, manager and players. All I ask is, would our current relative success have happened under Rankine's stewardship? Or without the input of our chief exec?

I think not.

[Howlin' Wilf]

I think you're missing the point a bit Wilf. I've said before that we cannot assume that success on the pitch means that they've got a clue what they're doing with regards to a stadium move. Saying " aye but what about Rankine" is neither here nor there. And when stories come out about their other businesses going down the tubes (when it could have been saved) it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

You've said Gilbert is paid by Brabco, so he'll do what his employers ask of him with regards to any move, yes? If he won't, then why would they pay him? Again, it doesn't fill me with confidence.

"What was the alternative?" was something trotted out by Jardine at the meeting and in all honesty, I don't care what the alternative was. I don't care that Jardine thought we got the better of two shite deals at that time. We need to deal with what we've got now and looking back saying "things could be worse" won't help anything.

'What about Rankine' is absolutely key. Rankine had the club advertised for sale for more than 5 years. He wanted out and one choice for him was to simply sell the ground. By there being no interested party in the club, the chance of Rankine taking the latter option increased as time went by. You clearly don't know Gilbert Lawrie as the idea of him being told what to do is quite amusing. I have misgivings about Brabco, particularly in light of Bet Butler's demise, I'm also uncertain about the stadium move.

However not everything fits the idea that the club's improved status has spontaneously happened because of dedication and hard work. We had hard working dedicated local people involved before.

What's changed?

[The Moonster]

'What about Rankine' is absolutely key. Rankine had the club advertised for sale for more than 5 years. He wanted out and one choice for him was to simply sell the ground. By there being no interested party in the club, the chance of Rankine taking the latter option increased as time went by. You clearly don't know Gilbert Lawrie as the idea of him being told what to do is quite amusing. I have misgivings about Brabco, particularly in light of Bet Butler's demise, I'm also uncertain about the stadium move.

However not everything fits the idea that the club's improved status has spontaneously happened because of dedication and hard work. We had hard working dedicated local people involved before.

What's changed?

I don't know Gilbert, you're right. Perhaps you knowing him so well is why you're always jumping to the defence on here. So, Gilbert is happily going to tell the guys paying him directly X amount each year "sorry guys, I don't like that part of the plan, let's call this off, sorry you won't make your profit that you expected to make 3 years ago"? If he does fair enough but if I did that with my employer I'd be out the door in a shot and I'm struggling to see why Brabco (who our CHAIRMAN HASN'T EVEN MET) would think any different.

What's changed? Quite a lot in the last 5 years of Scottish football. Clubs go through peaks and troughs, we're going through a peak because we made a couple of good appointments and things worked out for us, also while some other bigger clubs have gone through some problems. Yes, we've done well to almost rid ourselves of debt and we've done well to get a team on the park that is playing well but I'm afraid that doesn't exempt them from scrutiny.

I honestly don't feel we need a full-time CEO at this club. I'm willing to be proved wrong, but I'm not even sure what he does. I appreciate he's Sons fan, I appreciate he wants the club to do well but the folk paying him have a different agenda and if they feel he's blocking them getting profit, why wouldn't they bump him?

EDIT - What is Brabco's option if Gilbert and the board do block a move? Sell our land? Just like Rankine?

Edited January 15, 2015 by The Moonster

[Nowhereman]

And yet their time at the Rock has coincided with the club's highest standing in the game in 30 years. Or maybe folk preferred Neil Rankine?

It was the same when Robertson was chairman. No-one liked him either

[Boghead ranter]

Two pics from a Dumbarton 1979 yearbook

My first thoughts in the second picture were, apart from Tam Carson and Mike Rankin were who, who, who and who?

ETA ok, Roddy MacDonald too.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Boghead ranter

[Nowhereman]

Two pics from a Dumbarton 1979 yearbook

dfc1979 2.JPG

dfc1979.JPG

My first thoughts in the second picture were, apart from Tam Carson and Mike Rankin were who, who, who and who?

ETA ok, Roddy MacDonald too.

Remember Anderson,O 'Donnell and Findlay. Not so sure about the other ones

[lionel wickson]

Didn't Jackson play a number of first team games under Sean Fallon's season in charge?

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Didn't Jackson play a number of first team games under Sean Fallon's season in charge?

He certainly played in a 0-6 mauling from Coventry in a pre-season friendly.

[johnny graham]

Bit worried we are.half way through January and despite losing 4 players have signed no one. The squad is down to 18 with three of them goalies and another with a long term injury.

What.are the.brabco 6 doing about it. Nothing.

A couple of suspensions and we are in real trouble.

Come on Gilbert . Time to empty.the piggy bank.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Bit worried we are.half way through January and despite losing 4 players have signed no one. The squad is down to 18 with three of them goalies and another with a long term injury.

What.are the.brabco 6 doing about it. Nothing.

A couple of suspensions and we are in real trouble.

Come on Gilbert . Time to empty.the piggy bank.

Have patience.

Murray wont be rushing into it, his January loan signing record is very good. McGinn and Kane spring to mind.

[Howlin' Wilf]

I don't know Gilbert, you're right. Perhaps you knowing him so well is why you're always jumping to the defence on here. So, Gilbert is happily going to tell the guys paying him directly X amount each year "sorry guys, I don't like that part of the plan, let's call this off, sorry you won't make your profit that you expected to make 3 years ago"? If he does fair enough but if I did that with my employer I'd be out the door in a shot and I'm struggling to see why Brabco (who our CHAIRMAN HASN'T EVEN MET) would think any different.

What's changed? Quite a lot in the last 5 years of Scottish football. Clubs go through peaks and troughs, we're going through a peak because we made a couple of good appointments and things worked out for us, also while some other bigger clubs have gone through some problems. Yes, we've done well to almost rid ourselves of debt and we've done well to get a team on the park that is playing well but I'm afraid that doesn't exempt them from scrutiny.

I honestly don't feel we need a full-time CEO at this club. I'm willing to be proved wrong, but I'm not even sure what he does. I appreciate he's Sons fan, I appreciate he wants the club to do well but the folk paying him have a different agenda and if they feel he's blocking them getting profit, why wouldn't they bump him?

EDIT - What is Brabco's option if Gilbert and the board do block a move? Sell our land? Just like Rankine?

I'm not privvy to Gilbert Lawrie's arrangements with Brabco or DFC. However just as his role at DFC is down to his expertise in football administration matters going back to the 80s, I'd be surprised if his role at Brabco is not that of chief executive due to his expertise in land and property matters. I won't always jump to Gilbert's defence, I've had many differences of opinion with him over the years. I think sometimes his PR could be better for example.

However I will defend him from what is sometimes unjustified criticism because knowing him well over 30 years I have no doubt of his credentials as a Sons fan.

You're right clubs go through peaks and troughs. Our most recent trough lasted for around a quarter of a century, the only bright spots in that were times where Rankine wasn't involved - eg the Murdo promotion season when he was serving his time as a bankrupt.

"EDIT - What is Brabco's option if Gilbert and the board do block a move? Sell our land? Just like Rankine?"

I have no idea but I'd suggest Brabco's stewardship compares very favourably with Rankine's. It might have all just happened despite them and by some fluke. That is of course a possibility.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Howlin' Wilf

[Howlin' Wilf]

David Jackson was a couple of years ahead of me at Hermitage. He later played in the highlands - I think for Brora Rangers. He was a bit of a lad and could certainly handle himself.

ETA It doesn't look like David Jackson in that photo btw. I just checked and it was Brora he ended up at http://www.northern-times.co.uk/Sport/Football/Brora-Legends-top-the-bill-29032012.htm

Edited January 15, 2015 by Howlin' Wilf

[The Moonster]

I've said countless times I agree and acknowledge that Gilbert is a Sons fan and has been a Sons fan for a long time. From where I see it, if this plan doesn't go through Brabco will have a choice to make and the choices I see for them perhaps don't end well for the club, no matter who the CEO is.

You'll have to enlighten me as to what Brabco's stewardship has been? Buying land and leaving us to it? I'm honestly not on trying to have a go at everyone, I understand Gilbert wants the best for the club but he doesn't own the club.

We've been left to run the club ourselves and done quite well. Wouldn't it be nice to cut out the uninterested owner and just carry on with full control?

[Laurie Williams Loyal]

David Jackson was a couple of years ahead of me at Hermitage. He later played in the highlands - I think for Brora Rangers. He was a bit of a lad and could certainly handle himself.

Wilf, the David Jackson in the picture was born and stayed in Milton, I played along side him during our years at Dumbarton Academy, very good old fashioned centre half.

[Howlin' Wilf]

David Jackson was a couple of years ahead of me at Hermitage. He later played in the highlands - I think for Brora Rangers. He was a bit of a lad and could certainly handle himself.

Wilf, the David Jackson in the picture was born and stayed in Milton, I played along side him during our years at Dumbarton Academy, very good old fashioned centre half.

That explains it! The David Jackson I knew definitely signed for Sons but wasn't there long.

[Howlin' Wilf]

I've said countless times I agree and acknowledge that Gilbert is a Sons fan and has been a Sons fan for a long time. From where I see it, if this plan doesn't go through Brabco will have a choice to make and the choices I see for them perhaps don't end well for the club, no matter who the CEO is.

You'll have to enlighten me as to what Brabco's stewardship has been? Buying land and leaving us to it? I'm honestly not on trying to have a go at everyone, I understand Gilbert wants the best for the club but he doesn't own the club.

We've been left to run the club ourselves and done quite well. Wouldn't it be nice to cut out the uninterested owner and just carry on with full control?

OK then, all we need is someone to buy them out.

Simple.

[The Moonster]

OK then, all we need is someone to buy them out.

Simple.

Indeed. It would be nice to know if they were willing to sell, or how much they would want for it, or what their plans for the club are after we move.