Howlin' Wilf Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 In 45 years supporting the Sons, the fans always turn against the manager - no matter if his achievements outweigh his failures. Recent examples Carson, Fairley, Chapman, Adamson and now Murray. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Nobody has turned on Murray. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 In 45 years supporting the Sons, the fans always turn against the manager - no matter if his achievements outweigh his failures. Recent examples Carson, Fairley, Chapman, Adamson and now Murray. What makes him exempt from any form of criticism? Even you must see he's been getting it drastically wrong recently. There's hardly hoardes of Sons fans foaming at the mouth shouting for his head every week. We're on an internet forum discussing what has been an absolutely shite two months worth of performances. I'd be delighted to see him turn it around asap but as long as the shiteness continues fans will criticise and quite rightly so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsanorak Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 The board done tam carson in closr season. Nothing to do with us. I dont think anyones turned against murray. Although we ve lost the last 2 home games and are on a poor run, theres not much angst directed to him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Let me tell everyone a little story. Before the Falkirk home fixture late last year, a dismal defeat for what it's worth, I was contacted by BBC Alba who covered the game live on telly. They wanted an interview, and for seven or eight minutes I took part in one in the home dressing room on the Thursday evening ahead of the match. This was subsequently edited down to around a 12-15 second broadcast - seriously. That was of no concern to me, but what DID bother me was that the entire interview was conducted around one subject, or rather one man, Ian Murray. It was pretty obvious that for BBC Alba anyway, the Manager had become the shining star in the Dumbarton FC firmament, and perhaps my growing irritation with that was eventually picked up. And my point ? Of all the Dumbarton managers in my lifetime, and by God there have been a few, no-one has quite inspired such a cult of personality as Ian Murray. That is tolerable when things are going well but when they are not then we can all have sense of disappointment and dashed expectations. For two years here Ian Murray appeared a savvy young guy in a hurry, destined to ascend the managerial ladder. The last three months however have blown away a lot of the froth and doubts have crept in. I share those doubts, but that's a long way from abuse and hounding anyone. The team is currently in some disarray and his ability to steady the ship will be crucial, that's in the here and now and that's what he'll be judged on. It's football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 What makes him exempt from any form of criticism? Even you must see he's been getting it drastically wrong recently. There's hardly hoardes of Sons fans foaming at the mouth shouting for his head every week. We're on an internet forum discussing what has been an absolutely shite two months worth of performances. I'd be delighted to see him turn it around asap but as long as the shiteness continues fans will criticise and quite rightly so. I never said that he should be exempt from criticism. I have criticised selections and formations - and not just this season. Is it not interesting though that so many Sons managers have suffered a slump after a triumph? Fairley (third place in second division) Chapman (third division champions) Adamson (Championship play off winners) and now Murray (saved from what looked like certain relegation followed by a 51 point fifth placed finish) Maybe the fans are justified in criticising and losing faith - that formed no part of my point - my point was that they always do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Let me tell everyone a little story. Before the Falkirk home fixture late last year, a dismal defeat for what it's worth, I was contacted by BBC Alba who covered the game live on telly. They wanted an interview, and for seven or eight minutes I took part in one in the home dressing room on the Thursday evening ahead of the match. This was subsequently edited down to around a 12-15 second broadcast - seriously. That was of no concern to me, but what DID bother me was that the entire interview was conducted around one subject, or rather one man, Ian Murray. It was pretty obvious that for BBC Alba anyway, the Manager had become the shining star in the Dumbarton FC firmament, and perhaps my growing irritation with that was eventually picked up. And my point ? Of all the Dumbarton managers in my lifetime, and by God there have been a few, no-one has quite inspired such a cult of personality as Ian Murray. That is tolerable when things are going well but when they are not then we can all have sense of disappointment and dashed expectations. For two years here Ian Murray appeared a savvy young guy in a hurry, destined to ascend the managerial ladder. The last three months however have blown away a lot of the froth and doubts have crept in. I share those doubts, but that's a long way from abuse and hounding anyone. The team is currently in some disarray and his ability to steady the ship will be crucial, that's in the here and now and that's what he'll be judged on. It's football. Surely you're forgetting the cult himself - Jim George? I'm sure there have been other cults in the manager's office too. I didn't say that Murray was being abused or hounded and yes the criticism has some validity. However it's not all down to the manager. The only team to overtake us from last season has been Raith Rovers - they are the most improved side in our league. Alloa and Cowden each finished last season with 40 points. Neither of these sides has any hope of achieving that this season. They will be doing very well indeed to get 30. Livi got 46 last season and even factoring in their points deduction they may only get half that this season. Dundee, Accies and Morton have become Hearts, Hibs and Rangers. We'd had ten points from Accies and Morton by this stage last season we've had two from Hearts and Hibs - not difficult to figure that out really. What I'm saying is that the task faced by Murray this season is much, much more difficult. Shortcomings in player pool, formation etc will be thrown into sharp focus. The two real disappointments were the home defeats from Livi and Cowden and the manager/team deserve the criticism for those. If we can take seven points from the four games against Alloa (H/A),Livi(A) and Cowden(A) we should avoid the play offs and stay seventh barring any freak results from Alloa or Cowden in the other games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsanorak Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I like your arguments wilf, they re far more subjective. I remember you pointing out before how our goals conceded were split between the teams at the top and the teams around us. That said, I think 7 points from those games with the teams below us might be enough to avoid the playoffs, but not stop a team finding some form and passing us. Alloa have been rotten for a huge spell, yet are only 5 points below us. In our favour is the number of teams below us, not the points gap we may have built up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) If we'd beaten Cowdenbeath in our two games at home and Livi at home we'd have more than the 7 points suggested that would keep us safe (I'm not sure that will be enough but it could be). All very winnable games and we've looked lacklustre in all of them. I think it's understandable for fans to change their tune from the last 2 seasons, it doesn't mean we want Murray out. The teams around us are all picking up points and we've not won since December, picking up 1 point from a possible 21 since that win. In that time we've scored 8 and conceded 23. Any other team would be hitting the panic button right now but I don't see that here, which suggests to me we're all behind Murray and we trust that he'll keep us up. Edited February 26, 2015 by The Moonster 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Surely you're forgetting the cult himself - Jim George? I'm sure there have been other cults in the manager's office too. I didn't say that Murray was being abused or hounded and yes the criticism has some validity. However it's not all down to the manager. The only team to overtake us from last season has been Raith Rovers - they are the most improved side in our league. Alloa and Cowden each finished last season with 40 points. Neither of these sides has any hope of achieving that this season. They will be doing very well indeed to get 30. Livi got 46 last season and even factoring in their points deduction they may only get half that this season. Dundee, Accies and Morton have become Hearts, Hibs and Rangers. We'd had ten points from Accies and Morton by this stage last season we've had two from Hearts and Hibs - not difficult to figure that out really. What I'm saying is that the task faced by Murray this season is much, much more difficult. Shortcomings in player pool, formation etc will be thrown into sharp focus. The two real disappointments were the home defeats from Livi and Cowden and the manager/team deserve the criticism for those. If we can take seven points from the four games against Alloa (H/A),Livi(A) and Cowden(A) we should avoid the play offs and stay seventh barring any freak results from Alloa or Cowden in the other games. Sorry Wilf, I simply don’t recall the Jim George thing… For me, comparisons with last season only serve to highlight how we’ve struggled to consolidate those achievements. Sure, we’ve had the ‘Big Three’ with us this term but too many key managerial decisions have been contributors in that struggle; certain players were retained who should have been let go; we failed to build a balanced squad with cover in key positions; we’ve seldom played the same line-up twice; the tactical obsessions, ie three centre-backs, the mini-man midfields, the late, late substitutions. All of that would be excusable if we were now at last heading in a positive direction, but on recent form we are decidedly not. Yet here we go again, entering hopeful ‘if we take seven points, etc.,’ territory with absolutely no evidence to suggest that we will. Unless, that is, we field a team capable of at least competing – if we can do that then we may have the beginnings of a basis with which to see out the season. From where I’m sitting only one guy can seriously influence that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza81 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 The only team to overtake us from last season has been Raith Rovers - they are the most improved side in our league. Alloa and Cowden each finished last season with 40 points. Neither of these sides has any hope of achieving that this season. They will be doing very well indeed to get 30. Livi got 46 last season and even factoring in their points deduction they may only get half that this season.As you mention the three teams that came into the fivison this season are far superior than the ones they replaced so simply comparing points achieved is a moot point. No doubt we are worse this year but our points total - factoring in the change in teams - isn't that much worse. We took 6 points off Dundee, 4 off Hamilton and 7 off Morton. Replace that with 0 off the big 3 this season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Never had a bad pint -or meal in the Glencairn. If you get a bad pint surely you refer to the bar staff? I did mention it to the wee wifie, but if the Guinness is flat then she can hardly fix it, can she? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimistic Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 What's Cowden , livi, and alloas points to games ratio since our last win in December in comparison to ours? I don't think alot of ground has been made up from them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 What's Cowden , livi, and alloas points to games ratio since our last win in December in comparison to ours? I don't think alot of ground has been made up from them? Since our last win we have picked up 1 point compared to Livi 5, Cowden 4, Alloa 5. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons FC Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) If we go back further to the start of December, the figures for each of the clubs shows what a good December we had and although the other teams have started to claw the difference back, we are still 5 points ahead of Alloa and Cowdenbeath. They have, inevitably, found this season tough as well as us. Team Dumbarton - P 10 W 3 D 1 L 6 F 14 A 25 Pts 10 Pts per game 1 Cowdenbeath P 10 W 1 D 1 L 8 F 4 A 20 Pts 4 Pts per game 0.4 Alloa P 11 W 1 D 3 L 7 F 9 A 11 Pts 6 Pts per game 0.5 Livingston P 10 W 1 D 2 L 7 F 9 A 11 Pts 5 Pts per game 0.5 Edited February 26, 2015 by Sons FC 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimistic Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 So we really shouldn't worry too much just yet, yes it's a poor spell, but i think, once we start all the new boys we'll be ok 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumbartonTerrace Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 NEW on The Dumbarton Terrace: Comment from Ian Murray ahead of this week's game - hopeful that six points from the home double header will see Sons safe: https://thedumbartonterrace.wordpress.com/2015/02/26/six-home-points-should-see-sons-safe/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Optimistic could be right with his Turner and Petrie in holding midfield going by that interview. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Optimistic for gaffer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) I like your arguments wilf, they re far more subjective. I remember you pointing out before how our goals conceded were split between the teams at the top and the teams around us. That said, I think 7 points from those games with the teams below us might be enough to avoid the playoffs, but not stop a team finding some form and passing us. Alloa have been rotten for a huge spell, yet are only 5 points below us. In our favour is the number of teams below us, not the points gap we may have built up. I can't agree with that. Our points tally certainly isn't as good as we would be like but overall we have been very competitive throughout the season in a league made up mainly of much bigger clubs and the biggest failing has been our inability to turn decent performances into points. We've lost 15 league games and 9 of those by the odd goal. We've beaten Hibs and Rangers and drawn at Ibrox and we're in a cup final. I realise that given Alloa invariably save their very worst displays for Dumbarton that your support don't rate us too highly but "rotten for a huge spell" isn't a fair description in my opinion. Indeed, but for our horrific head to head against the Sons there is very little between the league records of both teams over the last 18 months. Edited February 26, 2015 by Waspie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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