sonsanorak Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 For me Aitken has to put players in the right places and be more adventurous. full backs instead of Cb's and attacking centre mids instead of 2 holding players. Especially at home. kirky on the wing is not an option. Gibson to rm, docherty at km and Watters at lb. why that boy is staying with us to not be picked is beyond me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 However Adamson had guided a team through the play-offs (8 goals for 3 against), something Aitken failed to do last season. He (Adamson) was also having to cope with a club and team which had taken a giant step up, largely with a squad which had been signed for the second division (league 1). That squad (with a few additions) managed to survive in the higher league. Aitken came in to a club which has had three seasons at this level with a board far more generous in their backing than they had been with Adamson. I see little prospect of the current squad avoiding relegation, no matter who is in charge. The squad was assembled by Aitken specifically for the Championship. True. Although Aitken was managing a significantly smaller club, with considerably less resources and nowhere near as strong a squad as we when we came up. That's completely irrelevant, and Adamson will always be remembered for masterminding my second favourite day ever as a Sons' fan. He signed some cracking players as well, Agnew, Prunty, Graham, Kevin Nicol. Stevie may have joined us when we were in a better league position, but we had no signed players. Last season was - for the most part - woeful and our standout performers were on loan (Rogers, Findlay, Kane, Duggan ). I think all Sons fans were in agreement that whoever was at the helm, the squad needed a massive overhaul. For me Aitken has to put players in the right places and be more adventurous. full backs instead of Cb's and attacking centre mids instead of 2 holding players. Especially at home. kirky on the wing is not an option. Gibson to rm, docherty at km and Watters at lb. why that boy is staying with us to not be picked is beyond me. I've been saying since he signed that there's no way Kirkpatrick is a winger. He can't run with the ball at pace, and he can't cross to save himself. He's an excellent player, but he's a central midfielder (and a creative one at that) which is something we lack badly at the moment. I'm liking your thinking team wise, Waters was poor against Morton but with Docherty in front of him he'll have extra protection. It would be good, and brave to see something like this next week: Brown Saunders (if fit) Barr Buchanan Waters Gibson Brown Kirkpatrick Docherty Fleming Brophy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren1872 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'd go with the team but drop Fleming for Mccallum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimistic Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 No chance, drop Docherty for mccallum 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyWilsonsMoustache Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 No chance, drop Docherty for mccallum Docherty has shown himself to be a poor player 1/3 into the season. Dreadful decision making and looks at times like the championship is a level above him. Wee Donald isn't the answer obviously but I at least appreciate the dig and endeavour you get from him. Wants desperately to succeed in a Dumbarton shirt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Whilst I understand your point, a left side of McCallum and Waters is nowhere near strong enough defensively. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspy Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 How's Kevin Cawley getting on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 How's Kevin Cawley getting on? Been one of our better performers when he's not been injured. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 True. Although Aitken was managing a significantly smaller club, with considerably less resources and nowhere near as strong a squad as we when we came up. That's completely irrelevant, and Adamson will always be remembered for masterminding my second favourite day ever as a Sons' fan. He signed some cracking players as well, Agnew, Prunty, Graham, Kevin Nicol. Stevie may have joined us when we were in a better league position, but we had no signed players. Last season was - for the most part - woeful and our standout performers were on loan (Rogers, Findlay, Kane, Duggan ). I think all Sons fans were in agreement that whoever was at the helm, the squad needed a massive overhaul. I think you overstate the fewer resources thing. Even if we were to agree on that point then the corollary is that Aitken has enjoyed significantly more resources and support at Dumbarton than Adamson did. I agree that the playing staff needed an overhaul, however that would have been the case no matter who the manager was. Your list of stand out players doesn't include Andy Graham - maybe you subscribe to the amnesia fuelled year zero approach common amongst the hive mind at the CID stadium? Even in these here today, gone tomorrow days of players and clubs, it would have been prudent for Aitken to have retained a nucleus of players who had done a decent job for us. I'll keep that comment in my back pocket about last season being woeful, for the last week in January when we're facing up to possibly direct relegation but almost certainly the play offs. The Hibs and Rangers games apart, our home performances have been absolutely grim. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benito Robles Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Managers have been sacked for better stats than Aitken is serving up at Dumbarton. 10 matches, 1 win, 1 draw and 8 defeats. Plus only 7 goals scored with 21 against. Awful return. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 It's actually very difficult to see who we could prize a point from between now and new year. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong on that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I think you overstate the fewer resources thing. Even if we were to agree on that point then the corollary is that Aitken has enjoyed significantly more resources and support at Dumbarton than Adamson did. I agree that the playing staff needed an overhaul, however that would have been the case no matter who the manager was. Your list of stand out players doesn't include Andy Graham - maybe you subscribe to the amnesia fuelled year zero approach common amongst the hive mind at the CID stadium? Even in these here today, gone tomorrow days of players and clubs, it would have been prudent for Aitken to have retained a nucleus of players who had done a decent job for us. I'll keep that comment in my back pocket about last season being woeful, for the last week in January when we're facing up to possibly direct relegation but almost certainly the play offs. The Hibs and Rangers games apart, our home performances have been absolutely grim. Graham was good, aye. He's in my later list of Adamson's excellent signings. But he's been involved in some very poor defences, and was at fault for two goals in the two games he played for us under Aitken this season. I fully understand why he chucked him. You say it would've been prudent for Aitken to keep a nucleus of the squad from last season - who would that have been? Graham, but who else? Turner and Aggy left to go to bigger clubs, Mitch left to go full-time, Rogers was only on loan. Fleming, Taggart and Kirkpatrick is a decent spine, and all three were kept on. Every other position the players either weren't ours, or weren't good enough. FWIW I think we'd be in the exact same position - perhaps even worse - under Ian Murray. As miserable, negative and horrendous as it is for me to say. Perhaps we're reaching the end of this outstanding era. Or am I over-reacting? I'm genuinely not sure. But like yourself I can't see a win on the horizon anywhere close. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Graham was good, aye. He's in my later list of Adamson's excellent signings. But he's been involved in some very poor defences, and was at fault for two goals in the two games he played for us under Aitken this season. I fully understand why he chucked him. You say it would've been prudent for Aitken to keep a nucleus of the squad from last season - who would that have been? Graham, but who else? Turner and Aggy left to go to bigger clubs, Mitch left to go full-time, Rogers was only on loan. Fleming, Taggart and Kirkpatrick is a decent spine, and all three were kept on. Every other position the players either weren't ours, or weren't good enough. FWIW I think we'd be in the exact same position - perhaps even worse - under Ian Murray. As miserable, negative and horrendous as it is for me to say. Perhaps we're reaching the end of this outstanding era. Or am I over-reacting? I'm genuinely not sure. But like yourself I can't see a win on the horizon anywhere close. 'Was at fault for two goals in two games' Hmmmm. Well one of those games was against Hibs where not only the defence but the team looked pretty good. To blame Graham for an individual mistake against Queens Park when frankly, the whole team was honking, is a little unfair. If Dumbarton players were habitually punted for two mistakes in two games we'd have no players. Who would I have kept? Graham definitely. As I pause here for everyone else to piss themselves, I'd also have kept Gilhaney. Murray would have kept him too. Maybe you're right and it's the end of a natural cycle - and maybe Aitken is the fall guy for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Either way, it's hellish to witness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 If Dumbarton players were habitually punted for two mistakes in two games we'd have no players. ........after 2 games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 'Was at fault for two goals in two games' Hmmmm. Well one of those games was against Hibs where not only the defence but the team looked pretty good. To blame Graham for an individual mistake against Queens Park when frankly, the whole team was honking, is a little unfair. If Dumbarton players were habitually punted for two mistakes in two games we'd have no players. Who would I have kept? Graham definitely. As I pause here for everyone else to piss themselves, I'd also have kept Gilhaney. Murray would have kept him too. Maybe you're right and it's the end of a natural cycle - and maybe Aitken is the fall guy for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Either way, it's hellish to witness. I actually forgot about Gilhaney. Wouldn't have been averse to keeping him as back up to Cawley. The point I was making about Graham is this; Aitken wants his own players, with Graham one of the 'old guard' having to once again prove himself as we all do if we get a new manager. Being directly culpable for two goals in two starts was probably the worst possible thing that could have happened from his point of view. Arguably he wasn't fit after the pre-season injury, his head was probably in the wrong place after being stripped of the captaincy as well. But from Stevie's point of view all he sees is an unfit centre-back who he (seemingly) doesn't get on with making two blatant errors. Aye he was excellent for the rest of the Hibs match, and aye the whole team was rancid in that QP game but he still made mistakes which will be more memorable than an excellent defensive header in the 52nd minute or stonking tackle in the 73rd. Much like being a goalkeeper defenders get noticed most often when they make an error. The only positive about that mistake against QP was that he stopped it going to penalties! I don't think either team would've scored yet if that had happened Our poor form started when Darren Miller left I'm going to end on a positive note: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Quitely Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I stand to be corrected here, but didn't Andy Graham effectively remove himself from DFC when he was relieved of the captaincy ? Either way, he and a host of others are away and we are where we are, I don't see what purpose invoking the memory of Adamson, etc., serves right now. And there are few of us who didn't think Aitken had assembled a decent squad. But games aren't won on reputation and we are now finding that out in painful fashion - and it could yet become a whole lot more painful. But, hey, it's only football FFS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumbartonTheSons Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 It's still way too early to be making judgements on Aitken, and people shouting 'chuck it Aitken' and the likes is nothing short of embarrassing. I'm still happy to give Aitken and Faz time to get it right and turn this rotten run around, but having just come into the club in the summer, they've not made it easy for themselves. It was always going to be difficult to mould his own side with no players signed when he arrived, but from what I've seen of his new signings so far (and granted I've not seen all of our games) there's a fair number who haven't looked up to it so far, and we look as toothless upfront as I can remember for a long time. We're not looking like ever being dangerous and there's nobody going forward that you'd say with any confidence is due a goal or you'd expect to score when we do venture forward with the pace and directness of a snail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumbartonTheSons Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 QOS, Raith, Rangers, Alloa and St. Mirren in the next five games could be and probably will be crucial to our season, and after the delight of wins against Hibs and St. Mirren early on, Stevie and his team have pressure heaped on them and the players, that we really need to be winning at least a couple of those games. Not a good situation to be in in November. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Our bad form started in January, we're now approaching a full calendar year in which we've won SIX league games. Regardless of players, staff, management, ex players or ex management that type of form earns you only one thing. It's pointless bringing up Andy Graham etc, they are old news. If anything I was disappointed with how Andy reacted after losing the captaincy, I would have expected an experienced player and leader like him to get the head down and get on with it. Stevie was quite right to punt him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleslie99 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Early season optimism has turned to mid season panic. Start of the season we were being tipped to be the surprise package of the season, an outside bet for a playoff spot. Now we are possibly 2nd favourites for the drop. Let's not all panic though, realistically we were always going to be in a battle at this end of the table. We will drop more points than we pick up 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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