Sons' sorrow

[Nowhereman]

Whilst it's a pretty pish draw, we've beaten Hibs at home before so shouldn't rule it out again, however unlikely. 

If only we could throw up another 3,000 seats before the tie and coin it in, we could go full time next year.

I'd actually reckon a tie at home to Hibs is more winnable than a tie against a league one or two side

[Dudu Dahan pal]

I'd actually reckon a tie at home to Hibs is more winnable than a tie against a league one or two side

I think you're talking shite.

[George Parr]

26 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

I'd actually reckon a tie at home to Hibs is more winnable than a tie against a league one or two side

You'd take Hibs before, say, Montrose?

[Silverton End]

On 11/27/2016 at 23:54, Yoda8 said:

 

 

[Silverton End]

[Jan Vojáček]

"This is really simple, it's a question of trust. You either believe that we are doing this for the benefit of the club or you don't"

Sorry Ian, I don't believe you are. I doubt I'm the only one either.

[BallochSonsFan]

I thought at the time that Wilson had misjudged his delivery. The whole thing about those against the move lacking ambition was brave. To be so bold in challenging the fans to buy into what he was selling or condemn the club to a life of poverty was a badly calculated move. As OK3 has pointed out - if meaningful survival is dependent on the club being in the Championship then why aren't we seeing any investment to keep us in the division? It's a long time to wait for the new stadium and money-making schemes in such a perilous state that Wilson pitched to the assembled fans if we're on the edge of the precipice and staring at the abyss. Back my ideas or watch the club suffer Ian? With all due respects, what have you guys actually done for Dumbarton with a view to keeping us in the Championship?

I can't get past the issue of stadium ownership. If, and it's a big if (as big as Dumbarton rock), they could deliver us close to what they've pitched then I'd still be exceptionally worried by the prospect of not owning our own stadium.

For a Coventry fan to want a club to not own it's own stadium, and conveniently ignore the fact that his other team spent years playing in Northampton in front of a handful of fans because they fell out with the Ricoh Arena's owners, is bizarre. What justifiable reason is there for the club to not own the stadium? What use would the ownership vehicle have to own the stadium separately from owning the club?

Thats a massive red flag. It isnt working for Clyde. It isnt working for Livingston. It isnt really working for Airdrie. It was an abject failure for Coventry and has been a major factor in their recent troubles.

Edited November 29, 2016 by BallochSonsFan

[George Parr]

I'd like to understand more about the 'license in perpetuity'. Perhaps something got lost in translation between Wilson and the reporter but licenses generally offer less protection than long leases. The don't give the tenant a 'real right' to the land. They're more easily revocable and, depending on wording, don't necessarily grant exclusive possession. 

Lack of outright ownership is genuinely concerning, no matter the rent-free carrots being dangled by Drabco. At least we can have confidence the Trust will fine tooth comb all detail as much as possible.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

It still astounds me that a man like Ian Wilson, who hasn't shown his face until a month or two ago, now wants and expects us all to trust him. Why should any of us trust anything about Brabco when they have been so secretive until now? Why would you only show your face when there's a profit to be made and then expect our trust? This is something I asked on my feedback form so hopefully he responds.

Not only that but he displays an awful basic knowledge of our club in general. "A couple of years in the Championship", "only part-time club in the league" are a couple of the crackers he spouted last Wednesday.

Someone drop this clown in the sea pronto. Preferably whilst wearing his pathetic little tie scarf.

[The Moonster]

"My own team is Coventry and they don't even have a ground and the club is in a right mess".

"Brabco will own the new stadium".

Do Sons fans think that someone who said both of these things within a matter of 10 minutes of each other (and couldn't comprehend the hypocrisy that Sons fans in attendance pointed out) is fit to run a project like this? Does anyone on this board trust him?

It's hard to see how they recover from that, if Wilson goes back on what he's said now it looks like he's just telling the fans what they want to hear. If he stays true to that position then the backing of the support (and I would hope the other DFC board members) will be withdrawn. 

[DumbartonTheSons]

I want to see us play in as high a division as possible, as I presume the vast majority if not all of us do, but is there any mileage in the thought that should we be relegated this year, the proposed stadium move being driven by Brabco would be much more difficult to implement?

[pleslie99]

I want to see us play in as high a division as possible, as I presume the vast majority if not all of us do, but is there any mileage in the thought that should we be relegated this year, the proposed stadium move being driven by Brabco would be much more difficult to implement?

I'm sure they would manage to manipulate it somehow

[BallochSonsFan]

It wouldn;t be any more difficult to implement.

Relegation won't see us lose home fans. Away crowds will be down, but the home gate will be consistent. The argument promoted by Ian Wilson was that whilst we're probably short on £30,000 a year through our inability to accomodate more Hibs and Dundee United fans, the real money is to be made from non-matchday activities. Relegation would only really strengthen their resolve as they'd push the increased revenue line more strongly.

They believe that their plans can be achieved through the sale of the 4 plots of land for housing at Youngs Farm. The sale of the current site at the rock is of no consequence. The barriers to their plans are planning permission for the new site and raising enough money through selling plots to housing developers. Those will be the major factors regardless of what league we're playing in.

[The Moonster]

21 minutes ago, DumbartonTheSons said:

I want to see us play in as high a division as possible, as I presume the vast majority if not all of us do, but is there any mileage in the thought that should we be relegated this year, the proposed stadium move being driven by Brabco would be much more difficult to implement?

If they are funding it by selling plots of land next to the new stadium then our current league status won't have much, if any, effect on that. Us being relegated this year would blow a hole in their assumption that we'll coin in extra £30K a year from ticket sales though.

[DumbartonTheSons]

I'm in agreement with pretty much all that has been said in reply to the above articles being posted.

I really don't believe that Ian, a reportedly 'successful businessman' genuinely thinks we would trust him having him just appeared on the scene a comparative five minutes ago.

And the nerve to say that if we don't support it we don't have any ambition still seriously rankles with me.

As I've said, I'd like us to play in as high a division as possible, but not at the cost or risk of putting the club in jeopardy. If for the rest of my days we scramble around League One and Two with the likes of Montrose, Elgin and Annan then so be it. At least we'd all have the club to support still. That's a far better proposition than the club's future potentially being in jeopardy.

[DumbartonTheSons]

If they are funding it by selling plots of land next to the new stadium then our current league status won't have much, if any, effect on that. Us being relegated this year would blow a hole in their assumption that we'll coin in extra £30K a year from ticket sales though.

Yeah that's a good point.

So what relevance does Ian's point about 'playing at the highest level possible, ambition' etc have? Little as far as I'm concerned, lip service only?

[BallochSonsFan]

1 hour ago, DumbartonTheSons said:

 

Yeah that's a good point.

So what relevance does Ian's point about 'playing at the highest level possible, ambition' etc have? Little as far as I'm concerned, lip service only?

The argument is that we're struggling to compete for the calibre of player required to keep us in this division and at various points of the year we are constrained by cash flow. Pumping an extra £300k a year, every year, into the club is the difference between being a comfortable fixture of this division and living with the risk of relegation - or of actually succumbing to the threat of going down.

Which is an argument that has some degree of merit to it. Lets be honest - cash is king in football. The more money we have to spend on players then the stronger our squad will be and the better our chances will be.

Where it falls down is our ability to actually generate the money that Ian Wilson is promoting that we can. A lot of the revenue would be from hospitality - As Wilf pointed out it would take significant turnover to generate that kind of profit - and Wilson stated that it was net profit from the likes of weddings and funeral bun fights. You could throw in the use of the club as a conference facility for meetings, training events etc. You could also throw in the long term use of facilities by sports physios, chiropractors etc. Then there's the pitches.

Ultimately they haven't shown us the figures. They can project income of £300k net all they want. Unless they can show us proper business plans, with properly costed proposals, and market research that shows what the local demand would be and what price it could support, any claims about the amount of money Dumbarton would make year on year is rampant speculation.

You can't pay bills with good intentions. Show us the properly costed plans and the in depth revenue projections and its something that fans can scrutinise and then potentially take seriously. Until then? It's fag packet maths and blind faith.

Edited November 29, 2016 by BallochSonsFan

[Nowhereman]

3 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

I thought at the time that Wilson had misjudged his delivery. The whole thing about those against the move lacking ambition was brave. To be so bold in challenging the fans to buy into what he was selling or condemn the club to a life of poverty was a badly calculated move. As OK3 has pointed out - if meaningful survival is dependent on the club being in the Championship then why aren't we seeing any investment to keep us in the division? It's a long time to wait for the new stadium and money-making schemes in such a perilous state that Wilson pitched to the assembled fans if we're on the edge of the precipice and staring at the abyss. Back my ideas or watch the club suffer Ian? With all due respects, what have you guys actually done for Dumbarton with a view to keeping us in the Championship?

I can't get past the issue of stadium ownership. If, and it's a big if (as big as Dumbarton rock), they could deliver us close to what they've pitched then I'd still be exceptionally worried by the prospect of not owning our own stadium.

For a Coventry fan to want a club to not own it's own stadium, and conveniently ignore the fact that his other team spent years playing in Northampton in front of a handful of fans because they fell out with the Ricoh Arena's owners, is bizarre. What justifiable reason is there for the club to not own the stadium? What use would the ownership vehicle have to own the stadium separately from owning the club?

Thats a massive red flag. It isnt working for Clyde. It isnt working for Livingston. It isnt really working for Airdrie. It was an abject failure for Coventry and has been a major factor in their recent troubles.

I raised that point a couple of pages back and the only benefit to them can be if they see a situation where they can sell the stadium in the future. As for doing it for the benefit of the club ? Lets face it if it was for the benefit of the club there would be no need to separate Brabco and DFC. 

[Nowhereman]

14 hours ago, Consolidate said:

You'd take Hibs before, say, Montrose?

Given our league cup and challenge cup results this season yes I would.

[Silverton End]

Wonder who the 'foreign striker' is?