Sons' sorrow

[BallochSonsFan]

5 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I'd agree with most of this but would make a couple of points. Sad to say I think Ross Forbes best days are now behind him, and we can't afford a guy who only delivers the occasional good corner or dead ball (very few so far this season). Most games have simply passed him by.
Secondly, Daniel Church is showing very little to suggest he was years at Celtic, but in fairness to the lad it must be very difficult to join a team who like to keep the ball in the air. Ditto Hamilton, Wedderburn and as you say Frizzell.
Either Jim Duffy is demanding this approach or the players are disregarding his instructions; either of these is a real problem IMO, but I tend towards the former.
An upwardly-mobile Cove come calling this Saturday. If McGeever, Crossan, Wilson and McCluskey are fit can we at least shake it up a bit, try to pass the ball and remember it's Cove Rangers and not Liverpool we're playing.

I've made my views on Forbes clear. He potentially gives you a threat from set pieces, but he's limited in other aspects of the game. He isnt going to do a lot when you're under pressure and he's slow when you're trying to transition to attack. I've previously said that I think we need to go to a back 3 as we have no real threat from wide areas. If we could get Crossan fit then there's a chance for us to go to the kind of 4-3-3 that Rangers play. 2 wide men who cut inside and support a striker. You could see a front 3 of Crossan, Wilson and Frizzell being very mobile and all 3 offering some kind of attacking threat. Swap Johnstone in there if we need a more direct option. If Hamilton really is seen as a midfielder by Hearts then a midfield 3 of Carswell, Wedderburn and Hamilton should offer us something. There's still a lack of creativity in there and I'd much rather it was Carswell and Wedderburn with a mobile, creative midfielder. Sadly we just don't have one of those. At least Hamilton may offer mobility.

The point I'd make is that we don't need to be such a horrible team to watch. I can get us playing negative football against Thistle. They were favourites for the game and that point could be valuable. I'd also expect us to play negative against Falkirk and Cove. Anything we could possibly steam from those games is a bonus if our realistic rivals can't. But thats 3 opponents in a 10 team league that we would expect to try and stifle. The other 6? I want to see us have a go against East Fife, Montrose, Clyde, Airdie, Peterhead and Forfar. I don't expect us to be challenging for 4th, but equally there's no reason why we should be worried about relegation. We should be competing with those 6 teams. We don't need to play the kind of football that'll drive fans away. It's a choice by Duffy to play negative football and I'd hope that he changes things. Expecting a manager with the longevity of Duffy to change things is possibly a big ask. Regardless of what happens this season, I'd like to see us change manager in the summer. I think we need somebody new. Somebody who's capable of playing attacking football in games where we're no worse than 50/50 to win.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I think Cedrick has nailed it above. The club doesn't have a pot to piss in so we probably haven't the money to change manager.

That said, on the evidence of what we're seeing we may face a struggle to stay in this division and I'd like to think that the DFC Board might want to keep an eye on things, managerial reputations or not.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I think Cedrick has nailed it above. The club doesn't have a pot to piss in so we probably haven't the money to change manager.

That said, on the evidence of what we're seeing we may face a struggle to stay in this division and I'd like to think that the DFC Board might want to keep an eye on things, managerial reputations or not.

Very much this.

Duffy done brilliantly in terms of getting the best out of a squad who should do better, last season we performed fairly average with his own players. This season we looked to have regressed from last season.

Duffy is fantastic at getting the best out of the players he has at his disposal but he’s a fucking nightmare when it comes to building a squad and progressing the club forward. Our current squad is probably the worst in terms of quality since we were arsing around the wrong end of the 3rd Division under Gerry McCabe. I understand the budget is tight but I also think it could be spent much better than Duffy is spending it. 

The ideal scenario is that we stay up and Duffy leaves with our best wishes. I’m absolutely desperate for someone in the mould of a freshly retired Murray or Petrie in the hot seat. We could really be doing with someone who is full of enthusiasm and fresh ideas. I just worry that John Steele and co are blinded by the fact Duffy is considered some sort of messiah amongst the Scottish football media when in reality he is a great man manager who is lazy and stale when it comes to squad building and plays an absolutely vile brand of eye bleeding football. 

Would I be gutted if Duffy decided to walk tomorrow? Absolutely not.

[FifeSons]

As I said yesterday, I still believe Duffy will see us to a good league finish this season. I think he’s a good, experienced, pragmatic manager who’s better than a lot of other potential candidates. I’m still perfectly happy with him  in charge.

[FifeSons]

Just read and enjoyed Jan’s piece with Flannery and Grindlay.

Grindlay being a bit harsh on himself to say he struggled with crosses and wasn’t a great shot stopper!

[Howlin' Wilf]

3 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I think Cedrick has nailed it above. The club doesn't have a pot to piss in so we probably haven't the money to change manager.

That said, on the evidence of what we're seeing we may face a struggle to stay in this division and I'd like to think that the DFC Board might want to keep an eye on things, managerial reputations or not.

We really don't want to be changing manager just now. We've got Jim Duffy FFS - a man with a proven record at this level. It's a tight league and were as near to a promotion play off place as we are to a relegation one having played just two home games.

If you had the pick of a manager in League 1 who would it be? 

Calm doon everyone

[optimistic]

For those of you still on the “sons of the rock “ page, pop along and give your vote on the poll please

[Jan Vojáček]

11 hours ago, FifeSons said:

Just read and enjoyed Jan’s piece with Flannery and Grindlay.

Grindlay being a bit harsh on himself to say he struggled with crosses and wasn’t a great shot stopper!

I left out the bits where he said he thought he was average and didn't ever really have a great game. I mentioned Arbroath and he was like "Everyone always says that, I thought I was okay that day - but I didn't see what the fuss was about" 

[The Moonster]

11 hours ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

If you had the pick of a manager in League 1 who would it be?

Stewart Petrie, Ian Murray or Ian McCall all ahead of Duffy if I had the choice.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

We really don't want to be changing manager just now. We've got Jim Duffy FFS - a man with a proven record at this level. It's a tight league and were as near to a promotion play off place as we are to a relegation one having played just two home games.
If you had the pick of a manager in League 1 who would it be? 
Calm doon everyone

I think I agreed about not changing the Manager, Wilf, as the club can't afford to. But what a few of us obviously want is for HIM to change our style of play, and preferably before we have slid into serious trouble. I think that's a wholly reasonable request.
And to answer your question, Stewart Petrie of Montrose. But why limit us to League 1 ?

[Jan Vojáček]

18 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Stewart Petrie, Ian Murray or Ian McCall all ahead of Duffy if I had the choice.

I know Petrie has a good job outside of football, but I'm genuinely staggered a bigger club hasn't gone for him. The work he's done at Links Park is nothing short of outstanding, and he's not exactly been splashing the cash on big names. 

I dread our games with Montrose. And that's all down to how well organised they always are and how dangerous the can be going forward. 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

11 hours ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

We really don't want to be changing manager just now. We've got Jim Duffy FFS - a man with a proven record at this level. It's a tight league and were as near to a promotion play off place as we are to a relegation one having played just two home games.

If you had the pick of a manager in League 1 who would it be? 

Calm doon everyone

Out of interest what is Duffy’s proven track record at this level? As far as I can see his only real success was scraping his way to a title with a full-time Morton side who were expected to skoosh the league. Has he done anything else of note? 

I’m in no way suggesting the club bags Duffy asap, but I think this notion that we have a wonderful manager in charge who we should be thankful for is becoming a bit boring. He’s a good man manager who has had a good career but he most definitely has his flaws. Hopefully he can keep us up and hand over the reigns to someone with some fresh ideas next season. 

[FifeSons]

2 hours ago, Jan Vojáček said:

I left out the bits where he said he thought he was average and didn't ever really have a great game. I mentioned Arbroath and he was like "Everyone always says that, I thought I was okay that day - but I didn't see what the fuss was about" 

I actually missed that game because my uni decided to have an exam on a Saturday!! I can’t remember if there was ever actually highlights of it?

[microdave]

18 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

I actually missed that game because my uni decided to have an exam on a Saturday!! I can’t remember if there was ever actually highlights of it?

 

[cameron2000]

Is Duffy the ideal manager for us? No

 

Is his football terrible to watch? Yes

 

Will he keep us up? I think so (mid-table mediocrity)

 

Is a quiet uneventful season a bad thing given the pandemic/ money issues? Not really.

 

I’m not enjoying the football one bit at the moment but I think it would be smart to stick with Duffy for now as he has a pretty settled squad (albeit devoid of attacking quality/pace) who understand how to play the way in which he demands. Long-term I’d like to see another younger manager with ambition to play a certain style of football and go further in the game. However, let’s face it we’re not exactly an attractive proposition right now with limited funds and having long lost our best part-time club status.

 

[FifeSons]

2 hours ago, Jan Vojáček said:

I left out the bits where he said he thought he was average and didn't ever really have a great game. I mentioned Arbroath and he was like "Everyone always says that, I thought I was okay that day - but I didn't see what the fuss was about" 

He actually also had a very good game against Celtic at Parkhead when we played them in the Scottish Cup. They didn't want to take any chances after being embarrassed by Clyde the year before and played a full strength team that included the likes of Nakamura, McGeady, Zurawski and Vennegoor of Hesselink. I think that alerted quite a few bigger clubs to him. I remember there was definitely a headline in the paper about how well he'd played.

I still haven't forgiven Paul McQuilken for missing a one-on-one with Boruc inside the first minute...

Edited December 7, 2020 by FifeSons

[FifeSons]

19 minutes ago, microdave said:

 

It was maybe for the best I didn't have to sit through that...

Arbroath must have felt seriously hard done by, especially since the winner in the first leg came from a hilariously bad pass-back decision.

[Howlin' Wilf]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I think I agreed about not changing the Manager, Wilf, as the club can't afford to. But what a few of us obviously want is for HIM to change our style of play, and preferably before we have slid into serious trouble. I think that's a wholly reasonable request.
And to answer your question, Stewart Petrie of Montrose. But why limit us to League 1 ?

Stewart Petrie, Like Jim Duffy would only leave that job for a club in a higher league or a club which would pay him considerably more. No need to limit to league 1 - who do you think we could realistically attract at this time?

Absolutely fine of course to have opinions on the manager's tactics but they won us a point on Saturday which I'm sure most of us would have taken pre match. Fine to say we were lucky this time, but IMHO we were pretty unlucky against East Fife and Peterhead. 

[Howlin' Wilf]

2 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Stewart Petrie, Ian Murray or Ian McCall all ahead of Duffy if I had the choice.

All of whom would only leave their current posts for a bigger club or more money. Murray failed and was sacked by St Mirren in his first season. Latterly, in his spell with us, there were plenty wanting to get rid of him. In fact I recall quite a few who were suggesting Murray go and Steve Aitken be brought in.

  McCall's side are three points ahead of us and both Montrose and Airdrie are two points ahead of us. Airdrie lost to East Fife on Saturday. There are calls on the Partick Thistle and Airdrie threads to sack McCall and Murray. Maybe they'd take a swap deal. 

 

 

[The Moonster]

38 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

I know Petrie has a good job outside of football, but I'm genuinely staggered a bigger club hasn't gone for him. The work he's done at Links Park is nothing short of outstanding, and he's not exactly been splashing the cash on big names. 

I dread our games with Montrose. And that's all down to how well organised they always are and how dangerous the can be going forward. 

The bit in bold is where the defence of Duffy falls down for me. I'd need it explained to me why our budget would be any smaller than Montrose, yet for some reason Sons fans are supposed to like it or lump it when it comes to the team of unbalanced jobbers we've got. Duffy planned a 4-4-2 this year and then went about signing players who wholly don't suit playing in a 4-4-2. He tried to keep players we all knew weren't good enough, thankfully his derisory offers to them were outbid but Lowland League teams and they moved on. We have 6 loans available to use this year and we've used 2. In a season where you might not have the cash to sign quality players, I'm sure there are young guys at Premier clubs (or even Championship clubs) who would do us a job. 

For me this sums up Duffy though - he moved on Lewis Crawford in the summer. A guy I think every Sons fan wanted to succeed given his ties with the club but after some shaky starts (and a couple of decent performances) it was clear that he was maybe playing a bit above his level. No real harm, Duffy has realised the mistake and is now looking to fix it. Except he wasn't really looking to fix it. We went weeks without signing any full back cover this year. We had Donald Morrison on trial at the start of preseason but never offered him a deal. We got an injury for the Betfred (I think to Wardrop?) and Duffy had to sign some cover. He signed Morrison because it was easy. Morrison played against Falkirk and sadly he looks even less ready for senior football than Lewis Crawford. Duffy realises this and then goes about signing Daniel Church as full back cover, who was actually available all summer long and could've been signed instead of Morrison anyway. Church has filled gaps so far but again it doesn't look like he's even up to the standard of the league. We could've just saved a whole lot of bother and kept Lewis Crawford on if we didn't have any inclination to replace him with someone better. 

We've also signed up a first choice keeper with some injuries in his history, then signed up a 34 year old guy to support him whose knees lasted 60 minutes before ending up crocked. After bringing in another 30 year old from St Rochs on a short term loan (who Duffy inexplicably gave 45 minutes of for no reason), we then decided to bring in a local 16 year old boy to sit on the bench and desperately attempted to tart it up as some sort of community work. To be clear here, I think it's great that we're getting guys in from local clubs to train with us and I even agree we should make them part of the squad when we can but none of these kids should be next in the line of fire if we get an injury, they should be there as an unrequired supplement. Dabrowski has already injured himself warming up this season, not sure it's very responsible to throw in a 16 year old boys club player against a full time professional side away from home but that's where we're at.

2 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

All of whom would only leave their current posts for a bigger club or more money. Murray failed and was sacked by St Mirren in his first season. Latterly, in his spell with us, there were plenty wanting to get rid of him. In fact I recall quite a few who were suggesting Murray go and Steve Aitken be brought in.

  McCall's side are three points ahead of us and both Montrose and Airdrie are two points ahead of us. Airdrie lost to East Fife on Saturday. There are calls on the Partick Thistle and Airdrie threads to sack McCall and Murray. Maybe they'd take a swap deal. 

That's a wee shift of the goalposts there, you asked who we would pick given the choice in the first instance and nobody has yet said Duffy should be sacked as we all realise that it would be suicide to pay him off and bring someone else in, with all the upheaval that brings squad wise.

Murray probably left at the right time with us in his first spell, and I agree that his style of football had regressed, but he's still a young manager with ambitions of winning things. Ian McCall, whilst not as young, is clearly a very driven and ambitious guy - he was a big driver behind Ayr going full time and establishing themselves in the second tier before leaving for a club he loves, where he again has ambitions of taking them higher. You can argue whether it was financially prudent of Ayr to do so, but nonetheless it shows the ambition the manager and club had. Duffy isn't any of those things. He accepts mediocrity, he rarely inspires you with signings or with his words and appears lazy in the extreme when it comes to signing players.

I'm not saying I want us to phone up Airdrie and swap managers, I'm just acknowledging that ours probably won't take us out of this league in either direction so it comes down to what you want to see the club do. This year I think most are happy to see us survive in this league and come out the other side without too much horrendous debt to deal with, but as I've said previously if the club want to keep fans onside then they'll need to start showing ambitions of getting into the second tier again. Duffy has to do a lot to convince me that he's the man to do that.