Sons' sorrow

[FifeSons]

Some absolute cretins and dafties amongst the comments on the trust post  Worth a read.

Edited February 21 by FifeSons

[Silverton End]

28 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Some absolute cretins and dafties amongst the comments on the trust post  Worth a read.

Screenshot for the non-FB'ers please FifeSons.

[FifeSons]

9 minutes ago, Silverton End said:

Screenshot for the non-FB'ers please FifeSons.

They’ll prob issue another statement and have me banned from games if I post them… so I guess I should!

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

Neil Mackay can shove that statement up his farter. One wee steaming guy shouting something personal is not representative of us a fan base and that statement make us sound like a collective group of animals. It’s now getting firmly into “blown well out of proportion” territory. A word in the culprits ear, an apology and lets move on. I’d be confident he wouldn’t be doing it again. As I suspected, this incident would used to deflect from our complete shiteness all round. The Trust wading in with statements on social media is not necessary IMHO. 

Funnily enough, the Trust has been previously approached on several occasions with comments/complaints on the behaviour of fellow fans, so obviously some people think the Trust has a relevance here.  None of these previous instances resulted in any form of Trust statement, but such was the content of what was reported to us about Saturday's incident that it was felt necessary on this occasion. 

If that is 'wading in', then guilty as charged.

[BallochSonsFan]

Everything around the club is incredibly frustrating right now. Frustrating and worrying.

We've got an ownership group who are less transparent than the last shower. Brabco, and this is the only shred of credit I'll give them, were keen to engage with the fans and saw the value in being transparent with their plans for Youngs Farm. Those plans may well have been bat shit crazy, but at least Brabco were transparent. They had regular meetings with the trust, eventually provided the evidence we pushed them on and were generally eager to meet with fans in order to try to generate some local good PR. Ian Wilson was a liability and some of his private comments would have had him run out of town, but Chris Stainton was generally a far better person to deal with and it's a major worry that the previous owners seem to have been better than the current ones. The trust pushed for some time to get in a room with Andy Hosie and eventually made it happen. The conversation was frank and neither side pulled any punches. Tellingly, Cognitive seem to have become even more guarded than they were previously. When guys like Clive Hymen are going public then you know something is amiss because Hymen is the type who doesnt like to be front and centre in deals like this. It'll be interesting to see what happens going forward between Cognitive and the trust. We're certainly willing to engage with them but it has to be in a spirit of transparency and there has to be a genuine willingness from the owners to demonstrate that their plans won't screw Dumbarton over.

That we were even able to have a meeting with Cognitive came as something of a surprise because we'd been raising that exact prospect with the club board and getting absolutely nowhere with it. Eventually we had to approach Andy Hosie directly. I'm not convinced that the club board were particularly happy with that. My own view has always been that the club board would much rather not have to deal with fans if people like the SLO and the trust can do it for them. Which highlights my biggest concern right now as far as Dumbarton goes.

The biggest concern isn't the garbage football we're witnessing under Stevie Farrell. I'll say flat out that any personal abuse of Farrell is unacceptable. Maybe it was only one or two idiots. Alcohol, or worse, was probably involved. I'm sure that if those fans met Farrell and had the chance to discuss things with him then they wouldn't abuse him directly. I don't think that the club making a statement reminding fans that abuse won't be tolerated is a terrible idea. Abuse is unacceptable and the club are right to challenge that, as are the trust. I think the club's statement in this case is a little poor. The basic message is fine, but a lot of the actual content oversteps the mark. Moderate, considered criticism is not only justified but it's also deserved. Abusing people connected to the club, including making personal comments about their families, oversteps whats acceptable. it's entirely wrong. We have to tackle abuse when it happens because it's unacceptable and because it cant be allowed to take the focus away from any of the very justified concerns and criticisms that fans have.

There are perfectly reasonable grounds to criticise Farrell and his players. We're playing poorly. We've won 2 league games since the start of December. If we lose or draw on Saturday then it'll be 2 wins in 3 months. That's simply not good enough. We've also seen Ryan Wallace leave the club today. The timing of that announcement is really frustrating. If he was unhappy and wanted to retire earlier than the end of the season then he should have done it last month and we could perhaps have signed a replacement using his wages from the budget? That said, Spartans were able to sign Marc McNulty today. As much as he's not a world beater, he'd have been a potentially capable replacement for Wallace at our level. The club effectively has 1 striker now and a supporting cast of wide players and attacking midfielders. A team that is already struggling for goals is now that bit weaker. I  do respect Wallace for actually retiring and not simply picking up his wages from now until May. I do wonder if he's entirely happy stepping out like this? If we'd been challenging for a title or playing well and looking good for the play-offs then would he have stuck things out until the end of the season? The whole mood around our football right now is incredibly low.

And thats the big issue I have with the club board. We've got huge concerns about our owners and their plans. We're performing particularly poorly on the park and have been for almost 3 months now. We struggled to attract a shirt sponsor until we mysteriously found one ahead of the Rangers game. The mood amongst the support is rock bottom and yet the club board has only broken cover when  they've felt personally attacked by an article in the local press. That the club was the subject of comments in Holyrood during a debate about the need for an independent regulator for football seemed not to upset our club board. Suggestions that the board in general, and chairman in particular, were less than dogged in their pursuit of answers from the owners saw the chairman break cover and go on the offensive. And whilst I've said that the club are correct to address any abuse directed towards Farrell before the problem escalates, their refusal to address the very genuine and well founded concerns that the wider support has just doesnt sit right with me. We're long past the stage where the club board can sit in their bubble and simply try to ride out the storm. It's naive to think that they can't address the concerns that fans have. Perhaps they have limited pull with the owners, but there will be very real consequences to the club from whatever eventually happens with Cognitive and their land deal - we need to be 100% sure that the club board are pushing to protect the club's interests and to know exactly where we stand under the various scenarios that Cognitive may ultimately pursue.. The club may well be operating in a difficult financial climate and the oft used description that our finances are "grim" is almost certainly well deserved. That doesnt mean that we can blame an air of negativity for that poor financial climate. If we're struggling to raise income through sponsorship, hospitality and other avenues then its for the club board to find out why and to try to address those challenges. Footballing matters? We've seen crowds fall since Covid restrictions ended and yet the club seems unwilling to take action to try to arrest the decline. If our financial situation is preventing us from making changes then the decision to extend the manager's contract without some kind of review clause seems even more rash. As does extending the contract of crocked players like Mark Durnan, who looks no closer to a return to first team football than he did before Christmas. We don't even know what our pre-season targets were for this campaign and what Farrell's performance is being judged against? Or if it's being judged at all by anybody in a position of influence within the club.

The ownership issue is of major concern. The club's performance on and off the park appears to be in free fall. We have a board at the club who go public regarding criticism they take personally, but who seem completely unwilling to address the very real and deserved criticisms that can be made of the past couple of years. This lack of leadership from the board can't continue - the only thing that's sure to guarantee is falling crowds, lower season ticket renewals, a more challenging environment in which to sell sponsorship and hospitality and our ever increasing progress through a cycle off decline.

This has to change. The board needs to step up and show some actual leadership. Doing nothing risks consigning us to a very dangerous future.

Edited February 21 by BallochSonsFan

[C'mon_the_Sons]

37 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Funnily enough, the Trust has been previously approached on several occasions with comments/complaints on the behaviour of fellow fans, so obviously some people think the Trust has a relevance here.  None of these previous instances resulted in any form of Trust statement, but such was the content of what was reported to us about Saturday's incident that it was felt necessary on this occasion. 

If that is 'wading in', then guilty as charged.

I’m beginning to get the feeling that what it is alleged was said and what was actually said may be somewhat different. The comment that was made was ‘offside’ but I think the reaction of a certain individual to what was said made things worse. Felt like the comment ‘touched a nerve’ with said individual.

[Sweet Pete]

This season is a shambles. Can't wait for it to be over.

[FifeSons]

55 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

but such was the content of what was reported to us about Saturday's incident that it was felt necessary on this occasion. 

Wow. Presumably what was said was discriminatory, rather than just a nasty insult then.

[DFCTTFM]

19 minutes ago, C'mon_the_Sons said:

I’m beginning to get the feeling that what it is alleged was said and what was actually said may be somewhat different. The comment that was made was ‘offside’ but I think the reaction of a certain individual to what was said made things worse. Felt like the comment ‘touched a nerve’ with said individual.

Watching this all unfold and I am getting the same feeling, the comment was certainly over the line but from what I heard of the reaction of the big guy it seems to have made it a bigger thing. Personally I do feel like it should be a word to the supporter, apology & move on but I feel that may not happen. The lad is a regular and from my limited interaction with the group of lads im thinking of, they are actually decent boys. Hopefully it doesn't boil over to be something that it doesn't have to be.

Edited February 21 by DFCTTFM

[C'mon_the_Sons]

12 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Wow. Presumably what was said was discriminatory, rather than just a nasty insult then.

It wasn’t discriminatory.

[FifeSons]

Right, who’s chipping in for a “No Way, Hosie! ” banner to fly over the rock.

Jan, I’ll let you use it as a headline for the Lennox for free since I’m so nice.

 

Edited February 21 by FifeSons

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

56 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Funnily enough, the Trust has been previously approached on several occasions with comments/complaints on the behaviour of fellow fans, so obviously some people think the Trust has a relevance here.  None of these previous instances resulted in any form of Trust statement, but such was the content of what was reported to us about Saturday's incident that it was felt necessary on this occasion. 

If that is 'wading in', then guilty as charged.

If it’s purely off the back of Saturday’s incident involving one invidual then I think a statement from the club and the Trust is OTT. I’ve been told what the comment was, it was in very poor taste and something I certainly wouldn’t condone nor have I heard shouted before. Surely speaking to the individual in question and taking the necessary action against them would be a more suitable way to deal with it? The rest of us don’t need two different statements telling us how to behave at the fitba’ and it reads like it was a stand full of Dumbarton fans shouting personal abuse rather than one guy.

If this is off the back of numerous incidents involving other supporters as well then neither statement actually mentions that, they only mention Saturday.

[Sweet Pete]

Without all the cloak and dagger, what was actually said? And by whom?

[The Moonster]

9 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Everything around the club is incredibly frustrating right now. Frustrating and worrying.

We've got an ownership group who are less transparent than the last shower. Brabco, and this is the only shred of credit I'll give them, were keen to engage with the fans and saw the value in being transparent with their plans for Youngs Farm. Those plans may well have been bat shit crazy, but at least Brabco were transparent. They had regular meetings with the trust, eventually provided the evidence we pushed them on and were generally eager to meet with fans in order to try to generate some local good PR. Ian Wilson was a liability and some of his private comments would have had him run out of town, but Chris Stainton was generally a far better person to deal with and it's a major worry that the previous owners seem to have been better than the current ones. The trust pushed for some time to get in a room with Andy Hosie and eventually made it happen. The conversation was frank and neither side pulled any punches. Tellingly, Cognitive seem to have become even more guarded than they were previously. When guys like Clive Hymen are going public then you know something is amiss because Hymen is the type who doesnt like to be front and centre in deals like this. It'll be interesting to see what happens going forward between Cognitive and the trust. We're certainly willing to engage with them but it has to be in a spirit of transparency and there has to be a genuine willingness from the owners to demonstrate that their plans won't screw Dumbarton over.

That we were even able to have a meeting with Cognitive came as something of a surprise because we'd been raising that exact prospect with the club board and getting absolutely nowhere with it. Eventually we had to approach Andy Hosie directly. I'm not convinced that the club board were particularly happy with that. My own view has always been that the club board would much rather not have to deal with fans if people like the SLO and the trust can do it for them. Which highlights my biggest concern right now as far as Dumbarton goes.

The biggest concern isn't the garbage football we're witnessing under Stevie Farrell. I'll say flat out that any personal abuse of Farrell is unacceptable. Maybe it was only one or two idiots. Alcohol, or worse, was probably involved. I'm sure that if those fans met Farrell and had the chance to discuss things with him then they wouldn't abuse him directly. I don't think that the club making a statement reminding fans that abuse won't be tolerated is a terrible idea. Abuse is unacceptable and the club are right to challenge that, as are the trust. I think the club's statement in this case is a little poor. The basic message is fine, but a lot of the actual content oversteps the mark. Moderate, considered criticism is not only justified but it's also deserved. Abusing people connected to the club, including making personal comments about their families, oversteps whats acceptable. it's entirely wrong. We have to tackle abuse when it happens because it's unacceptable and because it cant be allowed to take the focus away from any of the very justified concerns and criticisms that fans have.

There are perfectly reasonable grounds to criticise Farrell and his players. We're playing poorly. We've won 2 league games since the start of December. If we lose or draw on Saturday then it'll be 2 wins in 3 months. That's simply not good enough. We've also seen Ryan Wallace leave the club today. The timing of that announcement is really frustrating. If he was unhappy and wanted to retire earlier than the end of the season then he should have done it last month and we could perhaps have signed a replacement using his wages from the budget? That said, Spartans were able to sign Marc McNulty today. As much as he's not a world beater, he'd have been a potentially capable replacement for Wallace at our level. The club effectively has 1 striker now and a supporting cast of wide players and attacking midfielders. A team that is already struggling for goals is now that bit weaker. I  do respect Wallace for actually retiring and not simply picking up his wages from now until May. I do wonder if he's entirely happy stepping out like this? If we'd been challenging for a title or playing well and looking good for the play-offs then would he have stuck things out until the end of the season? The whole mood around our football right now is incredibly low.

And thats the big issue I have with the club board. We've got huge concerns about our owners and their plans. We're performing particularly poorly on the park and have been for almost 3 months now. We struggled to attract a shirt sponsor until we mysteriously found one ahead of the Rangers game. The mood amongst the support is rock bottom and yet the club board has only broken cover when  they've felt personally attacked by an article in the local press. That the club was the subject of comments in Holyrood during a debate about the need for an independent regulator for football seemed not to upset our club board. Suggestions that the board in general, and chairman in particular, were less than dogged in their pursuit of answers from the owners saw the chairman break cover and go on the offensive. And whilst I've said that the club are correct to address any abuse directed towards Farrell before the problem escalates, their refusal to address the very genuine and well founded concerns that the wider support has just doesnt sit right with me. We're long past the stage where the club board can sit in their bubble and simply try to ride out the storm. It's naive to think that they can't address the concerns that fans have. Perhaps they have limited pull with the owners, but there will be very real consequences to the club from whatever eventually happens with Cognitive and their land deal - we need to be 100% sure that the club board are pushing to protect the club's interests and to know exactly where we stand under the various scenarios that Cognitive may ultimately pursue.. The club may well be operating in a difficult financial climate and the oft used description that our finances are "grim" is almost certainly well deserved. That doesnt mean that we can blame an air of negativity for that poor financial climate. If we're struggling to raise income through sponsorship, hospitality and other avenues then its for the club board to find out why and to try to address those challenges. Footballing matters? We've seen crowds fall since Covid restrictions ended and yet the club seems unwilling to take action to try to arrest the decline. If our financial situation is preventing us from making changes then the decision to extend the manager's contract without some kind of review clause seems even more rash. As does extending the contract of crocked players like Mark Durnan, who looks no closer to a return to first team football than he did before Christmas. We don't even know what our pre-season targets were for this campaign and what Farrell's performance is being judged against? Or if it's being judged at all by anybody in a position of influence within the club.

The ownership issue is of major concern. The club's performance on and off the park appears to be in free fall. We have a board at the club who go public regarding criticism they take personally, but who seem completely unwilling to address the very real and deserved criticisms that can be made of the past couple of years. This lack of leadership from the board can't continue - the only thing that's sure to guarantee is falling crowds, lower season ticket renewals, a more challenging environment in which to sell sponsorship and hospitality and our ever increasing progress through a cycle off decline.

This has to change. The board needs to step up and show some actual leadership. Doing nothing risks consigning us to a very dangerous future.

Agree with all of this, BSF, but your closing two paragraphs are the real worry. From what I know about Neil MacKay and his actions so far, he genuinely believes we have a good manager, that nothing is wrong with the club and that fans are a nuisance he could do without. How does a board who believes all that about themselves change? 

MacKay needs punted. We can't punt him, Cognitice can, but they won't. We are fucked. Well and truly fucked. And this road MacKay is taking himself down is only dividing the fans and the club even more. Nothing changes until the owners are bought out. Thats it. All fan energy, IMO, needs to be focussed on that end goal. 

[FifeSons]

8 hours ago, Sweet Pete said:

Without all the cloak and dagger, what was actually said? And by whom?

[Sons fan 1872]

Does McKay attend all home games? Would be interesting if we were to do some sort of protest or give him abuse  but I don’t think anything we do will make a difference 

[FifeSons]

24 minutes ago, Sons fan 1872 said:

Does McKay attend all home games? Would be interesting if we were to do some sort of protest or give him abuse  but I don’t think anything we do will make a difference 

I said earlier that I hope he gets abuse, but to clarify, I'd only want that to extend to "sack the board" chants and boos etc. Nothing along the lines of whatever the Farrell incident was. He certainly deserves to be questioned and have the spotlight shone on him, but within reason. 

I think we do need some kind of protest. Whether it's a complete boycott of a game or walking out after a certain number of minutes. Something along those lines needs to happen IMO. It isn't going to be the panacea we need (as Moonster said, only the fans buying out the club will do that), but it might at least force them to sack Farrell or do something other than cunty little club statements digging out the fans. As a short-term aim, I think that's a reasonable one.

Edited February 22 by FifeSons

[DFCTTFM]

13 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

I said earlier that I hope he gets abuse, but to clarify, I'd only want that to extend to "sack the board" chants and boos etc. Nothing along the lines of whatever the Farrell incident was. He certainly deserves to be questioned and have the spotlight shone on him, but within reason. 

I think we do need some kind of protest. Whether it's a complete boycott of a game or walking out after a certain number of minutes. Something along those lines needs to happen IMO. It isn't going to be the panacea we need (as Moonster said, only the fans buying out the club will do that), but it might at least force them to sack Farrell or do something other than cunty little club statements digging out the fans. As a short-term aim, I think that's a reasonable one.

This. There has to he some sort of visible reaction from fans that shows they have simply had enough, I've been down most weeks regardless of form but its coming to the point of not going until a change happens. 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Ryan Wallace retiring mid season is a really odd one. I’ve always found him to be one of our better players and would be one of the first names on the teamsheet for me. For a guy who has had such a good career in the Scottish lower leagues it seems a shame to bow out mid season with a few lines on the OS and nothing more. 

I think it has already been well established that the guy who has replaced him in the squad the last few weeks is not the answer, certainly not in his position anyway. It’s some buzz having our squad weakened in mid February, in a key position with nobody having a clue how we plug the gap.

[OKsons2020]

There were shouts for Farrel to quit , walk, usual disgruntled comments followed by a shout for a change and bring on a particular  player , which was then followed by  " is said player shagging your wife , what has he done wrong " or words to that effect  . That was the comment in its entirety   . 

Iv been given more abuse at the breakfast table .   Personally I think it's gone way over the top and has now created a smoke screen for how poor Saturdays result was .

What happened to sticks n stones , sure if it were the big two and everytime there was something aimed at the managers  ..they're would be empty stadiums . But because we're in such a small number it's easy to pin point folk and put blame.  

Again we are living in the time of snowflake generation. 

On the park , we're maybe about to see a team fight for their lives and watch the great escape........ failing that it could be far worse and keep sinking. 

There are players in there , we need to go back to the style of play we witnessed at the beginning of the season .