Sons' sorrow

[The Moonster]

10 hours ago, Frank Quitely said:

Are things becoming clearer ?  Keep watching this space.

To be honest, no. The club has been on life support and could flatline at any minute pretty much since Brabco took over. These accounts don't signify a material change in how we've been run for the last 10 years. What is new? 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

8 hours ago, George Parr said:

My thoughts on the accounts are the same as last year:

1. I hope Cognitive Capital never draw down any monies against that development loan. If they do then I pray they repay it.

2. I'm curious about who it is that is committing to underwrite any cash shortfall at the club, season-by-season. 

 

 

 

 

You are 100% spot-on with point 1., and the Trust is hugely concerned about the presence of charge/security 1333 6192 0002 in favour of Pendragon Group which is listed against More Homes DFC on Companies House.  People should look it up, and as for Moonster's point this is a whole lot more threatening than the Brabco years.

For over two years the Trust has communicated our concerns to both the club Board and Cognitive Capital on this charge and we have been told that there was an issue in the drafting which would be corrected.  That hasn't happened and we worry that there may be a compelling reason for that, one that may contradict the last sentence of Note 15 on the recently-filed accounts.

[microdave]

https://x.com/KieranMaguire/status/1836521787074711913?t=a2IkibrOuZoCg7u6lQzs3g&s=19

[The Moonster]

44 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

You are 100% spot-on with point 1., and the Trust is hugely concerned about the presence of charge/security 1333 6192 0002 in favour of Pendragon Group which is listed against More Homes DFC on Companies House.  People should look it up, and as for Moonster's point this is a whole lot more threatening than the Brabco years.

For over two years the Trust has communicated our concerns to both the club Board and Cognitive Capital on this charge and we have been told that there was an issue in the drafting which would be corrected.  That hasn't happened and we worry that there may be a compelling reason for that, one that may contradict the last sentence of Note 15 on the recently-filed accounts.

That charge has been on the accounts since Cognitive Capital took over. I repeat, what is new?

[O'Kelly Isley III]

17 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

That charge has been on the accounts since Cognitive Capital took over. I repeat, what is new?

You mentioned Brabco, and what is new is that the threat to the club is now much greater under the current ownership.  What is also new is that you and everyone else now knows is that the charge has been challenged and action which was promised has never materialised.  As such it carries a heightened threat level.

We also now know a great deal more across several other aspects, none of which I'm prepared to share on a public forum.

[The Moonster]

38 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

You mentioned Brabco, and what is new is that the threat to the club is now much greater under the current ownership.  What is also new is that you and everyone else now knows is that the charge has been challenged and action which was promised has never materialised.  As such it carries a heightened threat level.

We also now know a great deal more across several other aspects, none of which I'm prepared to share on a public forum.

I mentioned Brabco because the club has been on a knife edge for over a decade now. The club was always heading this way under Andy Hosies ownership. I appreciate there is a heightened threat level but without a proper change of ownership that was always going to be the end result. 

If fans know stuff they won't or can't share that's completely fine, I wouldn't expect people to share confidential stuff but there seems to be an expectation that fans not aware of this mysterious info that they should read between lines or deduce it themselves from cryptic messages. 

[George Parr]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

That charge has been on the accounts since Cognitive Capital took over. I repeat, what is new?

To my mind it's more like a creeping deterioration in the financial health of the club as opposed to a hugely significant change. 

Barring some unforeseen significant investment we appear to be becoming almost completely dependent on the successful sale of large hooses on the sold tranche of land. And with Cognitive/More Homes/Hosie spearheading that development, who really holds any confidence in DFC being paid the proceeds of sale of the land?

If the council refuse planning permission for residential development then I'd be really curious to see what happens next.

[the snudge]

Surely the 6188th best team in the WORLD (!!!) should have a queue of investors? 

[Silverton End]

1 hour ago, the snudge said:

Surely the 6188th best team in the WORLD (!!!) should have a queue of investors? 

At least we are above Annan Athletic in that Table.

Every cloud & all that

[Sweet Pete]

Afternoon all

[O'Kelly Isley III]

3 hours ago, The Moonster said:

I mentioned Brabco because the club has been on a knife edge for over a decade now. The club was always heading this way under Andy Hosies ownership. I appreciate there is a heightened threat level but without a proper change of ownership that was always going to be the end result. 

If fans know stuff they won't or can't share that's completely fine, I wouldn't expect people to share confidential stuff but there seems to be an expectation that fans not aware of this mysterious info that they should read between lines or deduce it themselves from cryptic messages. 

There's no expectation on my part, all I'm trying to do is impart some information to DFC supporters.  Enough years on the Trust Board however has taught me that we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.  

[The Moonster]

7 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

There's no expectation on my part, all I'm trying to do is impart some information to DFC supporters.  Enough years on the Trust Board however has taught me that we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.  

For the record I'm not damning anyone here, I appreciate the sensitivity of a lot of the information involved here. We all want the same thing here, the club in safe hands. 

[super-son]

There was some talk a while back about the trust having some plans in place should the panic button be pressed.

Is this still the case and have they developed any?

[Nowhereman]

It got worse when Cognitive took over as it appears that they got the football club to grant a security over the car park for money which Cognitive could borrow . So if Cognitive use that borrowing and then don’t pay it back the club will lose a huge chunk of its assets

[George Parr]

10 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

I’m not sure I follow note 15. It says DFC has granted securities in respect of a loan. It then goes on to say that Cognitive Capital are the borrower. Surely the borrower is the party who grants the security?

Yeah that's where it becomes quite murky and circular to my mind. I'll assume that DFC has granted the security because it is effectively owned by Cognitive, who themselves don't hold any assets which can be used as collateral.

But I question any member of the DFC board who felt they were acting in the best interests of the football club by agreeing to the granting of that charge. I'd have resigned personally.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

2 hours ago, George Parr said:

Yeah that's where it becomes quite murky and circular to my mind. I'll assume that DFC has granted the security because it is effectively owned by Cognitive, who themselves don't hold any assets which can be used as collateral.

But I question any member of the DFC board who felt they were acting in the best interests of the football club by agreeing to the granting of that charge. I'd have resigned personally.

Under the Dumbarton Football Club entry on Companies House, charge SC00 9005 0012 is listed in favour of Pendragon Group Ltd, the subjects being the entire site at The Rock.  The pdf document list the DFC signatories as Directors Henning Kristoffersen and Neil Dermott.

And therein lies a key to what happened in April 2021.  There wasn't so much a buyout/takeover/purchase of DFC as a coup in which the club Board of the time had no direct knowledge never mind participation in the process.

A short time later the Trust requested a meeting with the BOD to discuss the matter and we were informed that by the time the football club Board learned of what had happened the situation was a 'fait accompli' (direct quote).

In fairness to the BOD we understand that strenuous efforts were made at that time to hold the principal actor in Cognitive to account but these came to very little.  As a result, the then Chairman, Finance Director and two Associate Directors resigned their positions.

In short, there appears to have been very little by way of involvement by the BOD as Cognitive arranged the pieces on the board to facilitate their gameplan, including the setting up of More Homes DFC Ltd as the vehicle for housebuilding, whilst leveraging DFC assets as collateral.

[Eadie is God]

24 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Under the Dumbarton Football Club entry on Companies House, charge SC00 9005 0012 is listed in favour of Pendragon Group Ltd, the subjects being the entire site at The Rock.  The pdf document list the DFC signatories as Directors Henning Kristoffersen and Neil Dermott.

And therein lies a key to what happened in April 2021.  There wasn't so much a buyout/takeover/purchase of DFC as a coup in which the club Board of the time had no direct knowledge never mind participation in the process.

A short time later the Trust requested a meeting with the BOD to discuss the matter and we were informed that by the time the football club Board learned of what had happened the situation was a 'fait accompli' (direct quote).

In fairness to the BOD we understand that strenuous efforts were made at that time to hold the principal actor in Cognitive to account but these came to very little.  As a result, the then Chairman, Finance Director and two Associate Directors resigned their positions.

In short, there appears to have been very little by way of involvement by the BOD as Cognitive arranged the pieces on the board to facilitate their gameplan, including the setting up of More Homes DFC Ltd as the vehicle for housebuilding, whilst leveraging DFC assets as collateral.

What do you think the end game is for these people?

[The Moonster]

26 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Under the Dumbarton Football Club entry on Companies House, charge SC00 9005 0012 is listed in favour of Pendragon Group Ltd, the subjects being the entire site at The Rock.  The pdf document list the DFC signatories as Directors Henning Kristoffersen and Neil Dermott.

And therein lies a key to what happened in April 2021.  There wasn't so much a buyout/takeover/purchase of DFC as a coup in which the club Board of the time had no direct knowledge never mind participation in the process.

A short time later the Trust requested a meeting with the BOD to discuss the matter and we were informed that by the time the football club Board learned of what had happened the situation was a 'fait accompli' (direct quote).

In fairness to the BOD we understand that strenuous efforts were made at that time to hold the principal actor in Cognitive to account but these came to very little.  As a result, the then Chairman, Finance Director and two Associate Directors resigned their positions.

In short, there appears to have been very little by way of involvement by the BOD as Cognitive arranged the pieces on the board to facilitate their gameplan, including the setting up of More Homes DFC Ltd as the vehicle for housebuilding, whilst leveraging DFC assets as collateral.

I cannot for the life of me understand how this is legal. 

[George Parr]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Under the Dumbarton Football Club entry on Companies House, charge SC00 9005 0012 is listed in favour of Pendragon Group Ltd, the subjects being the entire site at The Rock.  The pdf document list the DFC signatories as Directors Henning Kristoffersen and Neil Dermott.

And therein lies a key to what happened in April 2021.  There wasn't so much a buyout/takeover/purchase of DFC as a coup in which the club Board of the time had no direct knowledge never mind participation in the process.

A short time later the Trust requested a meeting with the BOD to discuss the matter and we were informed that by the time the football club Board learned of what had happened the situation was a 'fait accompli' (direct quote).

In fairness to the BOD we understand that strenuous efforts were made at that time to hold the principal actor in Cognitive to account but these came to very little.  As a result, the then Chairman, Finance Director and two Associate Directors resigned their positions.

In short, there appears to have been very little by way of involvement by the BOD as Cognitive arranged the pieces on the board to facilitate their gameplan, including the setting up of More Homes DFC Ltd as the vehicle for housebuilding, whilst leveraging DFC assets as collateral.

Ah, that’s a helpful summary thanks. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Eadie is God said:

What do you think the end game is for these people?

To make £

[pleslie99]

So in short, we’re skint (no surprise there) we have dodgy owners who won’t invest and are draining the life out the club (no surprise there)

but apparently next season we will be putting down a fancy new artificial playing surface………. Anyone else see the flaw here? Yes we may get a grant due to the recent acquisitions of some youth teams, but unless there’s a magic money tree growing somewhere in the grounds I fail to see how this is possible!