Sons' sorrow

[Howlin' Wilf]

When was that?

Page 68 of The Sons of the Rock by Jim McAllister "When (Ian) Fearn resigned, the board advertised for a replacement, leaving John Hosie in charge until the appointment of ex Scotland international Willie Toner a month later"

[Howlin' Wilf]

Lads, all I ever wanted to do was provide a wee bit of perspective here and say that the proposed project was perhaps worthy of consideration, albeit on a sceptical basis. I'm neither a proponent of nor a cheerleader for the proposed move - indeed I have many questions I would like answered. I have limited knowledge of the issues involved but tried to point out a few salient facts within that limited knowledge.

However I didn't realise that there is such a body of expertise here on everything from flood patterns at Dalmoak to market research in the retail, wedding, hospitality, sporting and fitness fields (sic) in Dumbarton. Nor did I know what depth of knowledge of the local housing and commercial property market existed on this forum. I didn't realise that the fact that the two prime movers in this proposal, with a track record between them of something like a century of supporting the club counted for hee haw.

Who knew that Dumbarton/Vale would be possibly the only centre of population of its size in Scotland where no sporting, commercial, retail or hospitality development can be successful on a 120 acre green field site despite being on the main west coast tourist route north, on a site with historical value, bordering a National Park and 20 minutes from the airport?

Thanks everyone for pointing it out. I might have been foolish enough to consider the possibilities further if you hadn't intervened.

I'm out of this topic.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Howlin' Wilf

[Sweet Pete]

Lads, all I ever wanted to do was provide a wee bit of perspective here and say that the proposed project was perhaps worthy of consideration, albeit on a sceptical basis. I'm neither a proponent of nor a cheerleader for the proposed move - indeed I have many questions I would like answered. I have limited knowledge of the issues involved but tried to point out a few salient facts within that limited knowledge.

However I didn't realise that there is such a body of expertise here on everything from flood patterns at Dalmoak to market research in the retail, wedding, hospitality, sporting and fitness fields (sic) in Dumbarton. Nor did I know what depth of knowledge of the local housing and commercial property market existed on this forum. I didn't realise that the fact that the two prime movers in this proposal, with a track record between them of something like a century of supporting the club counted for hee haw.

Who knew that Dumbarton/Vale would be possibly the only centre of population of its size in Scotland where no commercial, retail or hospitality development can be successful on a 120 acre green field site despite being on the main west coast tourist route north, on a site with historical value, bordering a National Park and 20 minutes from the airport.

Thanks everyone for pointing it out. I might have been foolish enough to consider the possibilities further if you hadn't intervened.

I'm out of this topic.

#headsgone

[Silverton End]

For what its worth, I don't believe for a second that Gilbert or Alan Jardine would sell us 'down the river'.

Under their stewardship Sons have progressed to where we are now. Considering how small a core support we have, its pretty remarkable. The new site ain't my preferred location, but if its in the best interests of our Club, fair enough. Time will tell and there's no point in fans getting at each other, over nothing more than speculation at this stage.

[The Moonster]

Lads, all I ever wanted to do was provide a wee bit of perspective here and say that the proposed project was perhaps worthy of consideration, albeit on a sceptical basis. I'm neither a proponent of nor a cheerleader for the proposed move - indeed I have many questions I would like answered. I have limited knowledge of the issues involved but tried to point out a few salient facts within that limited knowledge.

However I didn't realise that there is such a body of expertise here on everything from flood patterns at Dalmoak to market research in the retail, wedding, hospitality, sporting and fitness fields (sic) in Dumbarton. Nor did I know what depth of knowledge of the local housing and commercial property market existed on this forum. I didn't realise that the fact that the two prime movers in this proposal, with a track record between them of something like a century of supporting the club counted for hee haw.

Who knew that Dumbarton/Vale would be possibly the only centre of population of its size in Scotland where no commercial, retail or hospitality development can be successful on a 120 acre green field site despite being on the main west coast tourist route north, on a site with historical value, bordering a National Park and 20 minutes from the airport.

Thanks everyone for pointing it out. I might have been foolish enough to consider the possibilities further if you hadn't intervened.

I'm out of this topic.

It's a forum, Wilf, if people disagree they will say - where would the fun be without different points of view?

I don't see anyone claiming to be an expert on here, I see people raising doubts over the very limited and at times flimsy info we've been given. You say you're not a cheerleader of the proposal but you've defended it at almost every turn and from your 3rd paragraph it seems clear that you think the commercial/hospitality side will be a success and so far the only "evidence" we've had of that is that Gilbert says we will hold 52 weddings a year (which sounds extremely ambitious).

We need sensible debates, we actually have a fair share of Sons fans on here and I don't doubt there are many who read and don't post. I would hope that the people who do support the proposal won't throw the toys out the pram when someone doubts some very loose info they've been given.

And SilvertonEnd, I've said before and I'll say it again - success on the pitch does not mean we have to blindly trust them off it.

[Sweet Pete]

For what its worth, I don't believe for a second that Gilbert or Alan Jardine would sell us 'down the river'.

Under their stewardship Sons have progressed to where we are now. Considering how small a core support we have, its pretty remarkable. The new site ain't my preferred location, but if its in the best interests of our Club, fair enough. Time will tell and there's no point in fans getting at each other, over nothing more than speculation at this stage.

There's no need to bring Moonster's height into this.

[Howlin' Wilf]

It's a forum, Wilf, if people disagree they will say - where would the fun be without different points of view?

I don't see anyone claiming to be an expert on here, I see people raising doubts over the very limited and at times flimsy info we've been given. You say you're not a cheerleader of the proposal but you've defended it at almost every turn and from your 3rd paragraph it seems clear that you think the commercial/hospitality side will be a success and so far the only "evidence" we've had of that is that Gilbert says we will hold 52 weddings a year (which sounds extremely ambitious).

We need sensible debates, we actually have a fair share of Sons fans on here and I don't doubt there are many who read and don't post. I would hope that the people who do support the proposal won't throw the toys out the pram when someone doubts some very loose info they've been given.

And SilvertonEnd, I've said before and I'll say it again - success on the pitch does not mean we have to blindly trust them off it.

Fair enough Moonster. I just realised that this isn't a good use of my time.

[squeezeboxson]

FWIW, I don't reckon 52 weddings a year is that ambitious. There is probably scope for having over 100 functions a year if your add in the young farmers - who book the function suite on numerous occasions throughout the year - and any other functions (birthdays etc). A lot of people are also getting married on days other than Saturdays. It would all probably depend on the suitability of the hall(s) and the prices. It is definitely a realistic target though.

Edited November 17, 2014 by squeezeboxson

[sjc]

So this proposed new stadium? Will it be 1 main stand with terracing or what?

[Sweet Pete]

So this proposed new stadium? Will it be 1 main stand with terracing or what?

The full proposed stadium will be two stands either side of the length of the pitch, both holding 1500 seats, and a terrace behind each goal holding 500 each. It would be built in stages though, so initially the stadium would only be one 1500 seater stand, or one 1500 seater and one 500 capacity terrace, depending on which story the club tell to which person. And at weekends and midweek the ground will be filled with gym users, 3G pitch users, weddings (even on matchdays), conferences, hotel guests, shops and restaurants and golden shillings will fall from the sky as the collective wealth of one of the 3 most impoverished regions of Scotland is tossed at DFC with fervour. A pointless, unneccessary pipedream.

[sjc]

The full proposed stadium will be two stands either side of the length of the pitch, both holding 1500 seats, and a terrace behind each goal holding 500 each. It would be built in stages though, so initially the stadium would only be one 1500 seater stand, or one 1500 seater and one 500 capacity terrace, depending on which story the club tell to which person. And at weekends and midweek the ground will be filled with gym users, 3G pitch users, weddings (even on matchdays), conferences, hotel guests, shops and restaurants and golden shillings will fall from the sky as the collective wealth of one of the 3 most impoverished regions of Scotland is tossed at DFC with fervour. A pointless, unneccessary pipedream.

Is this not come about because the current ground is in a nice area for housing? If so, I can see the Clubs desire for doing this....although I don't know about the proposed location.

[Nowhereman]

Is this not come about because the current ground is in a nice area for housing? If so, I can see the Clubs desire for doing this....although I don't know about the proposed location.

It's come about because the only reason that the current owners bought the club was to sell on the land for housing and they obviously feel it's about time they cashed in.

[sjc]

It's come about because the only reason that the current owners bought the club was to sell on the land for housing and they obviously feel it's about time they cashed in.

The proposed new stadium sounds like it would offer a lot more in terms of facilities, and therefore revenue for the Club aside from matchdays (not to mention a bigger capacity)......that doesn't sound too bad or is the location that bad?

[Sweet Pete]

The proposed new stadium sounds like it would offer a lot more in terms of facilities, and therefore revenue for the Club aside from matchdays (not to mention a bigger capacity)......that doesn't sound too bad or is the location that bad?

The point is that we simply don't need to move. Profiteering for the owners is not reason enough to uproot the club. But, yes, in answer to your final point, the location isn't a good one for transport or local amenities and the proposed multi-purpose facility is frankly laughable. Dumbarton as a town struggles to support its existing commercial enterprises, so shoehorning some more in there and parking them out of the way from the town itself is a one way ticket to a white elephant of Darlington proportions.

[Frank Quitely]

Nowhereman and Sweet Pete have nailed it; the raison d’etre of the majority shareholder Brabco has always been to relocate the club and profit from the sale of the current site – everyone has always been aware of that. What has become problematic however for some of us is that we run a grave risk of DFC moving to a much inferior location in terms of transport and accessibility with a real possibility that the initially-planned modest facility may remain just that, permanently.

Much has been made of the current proposals being an outline plan; maybe but read that first sentence again. Much has also been made of the perceived benefits, financial and otherwise, which may accrue. I’d be happier if those perceived benefits and some degree of research-led certainty about potential commercial neighbours was the driver behind all of this, but it appears that we have a decision leading to a justification instead of the other way round - again we must return to that first sentence.

There is also the not inconsiderable matter of Neil Rankine claiming to be owed £200K as an overhang from the purchase of DFC, presumably if that is valid it will have some sort of detrimental impact on finances.

[sjc]

The point is that we simply don't need to move. Profiteering for the owners is not reason enough to uproot the club. But, yes, in answer to your final point, the location isn't a good one for transport or local amenities and the proposed multi-purpose facility is frankly laughable. Dumbarton as a town struggles to support its existing commercial enterprises, so shoehorning some more in there and parking them out of the way from the town itself is a one way ticket to a white elephant of Darlington proportions.

Fair enough mate. Just wasn't aware of the local issues with the proposal.

I'm already looking forward to coming back to the Rock in January

[Nowhereman]

Nowhereman and Sweet Pete have nailed it; the raison d’etre of the majority shareholder Brabco has always been to relocate the club and profit from the sale of the current site – everyone has always been aware of that. What has become problematic however for some of us is that we run a grave risk of DFC moving to a much inferior location in terms of transport and accessibility with a real possibility that the initially-planned modest facility may remain just that, permanently.

Much has been made of the current proposals being an outline plan; maybe but read that first sentence again. Much has also been made of the perceived benefits, financial and otherwise, which may accrue. I’d be happier if those perceived benefits and some degree of research-led certainty about potential commercial neighbours was the driver behind all of this, but it appears that we have a decision leading to a justification instead of the other way round - again we must return to that first sentence.

There is also the not inconsiderable matter of Neil Rankine claiming to be owed £200K as an overhang from the purchase of DFC, presumably if that is valid it will have some sort of detrimental impact on finances.

While agreeing with a lot of the concerns I wouldn't say the proposed site is worse for transport. For cars it is a far better site, for trains it is probably about the same. It's not so good if you walk to the ground mind you.

[Thechicogibsonexperience]

While agreeing with a lot of the concerns I wouldn't say the proposed site is worse for transport. For cars it is a far better site, for trains it is probably about the same. It's not so good if you walk to the ground mind you.

Yip. If you live in the Bellsmyre/Garshake/North-East Dumbarton as the crow flies it's not that much of a distance to walk. But if those folk do fancy a walk and a couple of pints in the lavish new Supporters bar it's a hell of a round trip (unless you want to run the gauntlet along the side of the A82). Any of that been factored into the proposals?

[The Moonster]

The proposed new stadium sounds like it would offer a lot more in terms of facilities, and therefore revenue for the Club aside from matchdays (not to mention a bigger capacity)......that doesn't sound too bad or is the location that bad?

It wouldn't be too bad if there was a demand for that stuff, it also wouldn't be too bad if we knew we could afford it all. Both of which is up in the air at the minute.

Yip. If you live in the Bellsmyre/Garshake/North-East Dumbarton as the crow flies it's not that much of a distance to walk. But if those folk do fancy a walk and a couple of pints in the lavish new Supporters bar it's a hell of a round trip (unless you want to run the gauntlet along the side of the A82). Any of that been factored into the proposals?

With the profits from the weddings we can run a Dial-A-Bus type service for folk who now live too far away to walk.

[Third Son from the Rock]

Stay on your knees everyone!

We're just too wee too poor and too stupid.

Everybody knows that.