NFL General Discussion

[AmericanFan]

1 hour ago, Boo Khaki said:

It's not really the fans inside the stadium part of it that I don't get, it's easy enough to spread 16k people out inside a stadium that holds over 70k. It's the fact you're attracting 16K people +hangers on into the parking lot, tailgaiting etc. Surely it's just yet another thing they're going to have to police, but then, if family groups are going to be able to stand and drink and eat together outside the stadium, what's the point in separating them inside?

Seems a bit daft that some teams will have fans inside their stadia, other not. Ok, I get that rules are different from State to State, but then the NFL holds collectivism as sacred, you'd think they'd have a one size fits all policy for the sake of unity and the appearance of solidarity if nothing else.

Yup, can only be about money. Which is baffling.

I'm not sure tailgating will be allowed. As to the highlighted part, not when it comes to the NFL. As Puff Daddy once said, "It's all about the Benjamins."

[AmericanFan]

2 minutes ago, Brummie Clyde said:

I think LT was the best RB in the 20 years I've been watching NFL.

A cracking player.

Yep. Was unreal in college as well. Good dude, too.

[lichtie23]

Yep. Was unreal in college as well. Good dude, too.

Over 500 yards rushing for TCU in a single game IIRC

[GNU_Linux]

Over 500 yards rushing for TCU in a single game IIRC

406 against UTEP. Was an NCAA FBS rushing record until 2014 when broken by Melvin Gordon.

[Boo Khaki]

4 hours ago, Brummie Clyde said:

I think LT was the best RB in the 20 years I've been watching NFL.

A cracking player.

I think he's the most complete back to play in the past 20 years. Marshall Faulk had a similar skillset, but I think LT was a better pure runner than Faulk, more of a goalline threat, and better at chugging it between the tackles.

Of the RB's I've seen play, I'd only put Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, and Adrian Peterson in the same tier, but Peterson doesn't really measure up as a receiving threat compared to Sanders, LT, and Faulk. Smith was a competent receiver out of the backfield but not much more. They probably didn't throw the ball at him as much as other teams would have because they were absolutely loaded with WR and TE threats for most of his career. Sanders really was a complete back. Most people remember him for the amazing agility, shedding and dodging tackles everywhere, but he had really soft hands, was a real threat after the catch, and he wasn't afraid to step up and take on blitzers in pass pro either. If you pushed me, I'd probably say that overall -

Sanders > Tomlinson > Smith > Faulk > Peterson

Not much in it and probably a few guys I've missed. Curtis Martin maybe deserves a mention, though he was really just a good all-around back who was consistent, long-lived, and didn't miss many games, rather than being a mega-talented player. A bit like a poor mans Emmitt Smith.

Thurman Thomas was a fantastic all-around back, Jerome Bettis was a great power-runner, Marcus Allen was another guy who could do it all. Terrell Davis was talented and tough, but a bit one-dimensional and didn't play for long enough. Eddie George definitely merits a mention, and Jamal Lewis was a bit of a thumper. None of these guys really merit being in the same tier with the other five though.

I only just vaguely remember the very tail-end of Walter Payton and Tony Dorsett's careers, so I don't really feel qualified to judge them against players from the late 80's onward. One guy I've always had a huge softspot for was Herschel Walker. He doesn't have huge career numbers, and his reputation is really sullied by that stupid trade, but in terms of what he could actually do on the field I can't recall a player that was so gifted at so many things. He could play Tail, Fullback, TE, WR, return punts, return kicks, and play kick coverage, and he did it all at a really high level. He was an absolute beast of a blocker as well. They used to line him up at WR and TE, and he'd absolutely pancake DB's and LB's. He was really fun to watch.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Boo Khaki

[Brummie Clyde]

If we're talking all round backs, Fortè deserves a mention. Good rusher, blocker and was like a WR out of the backfield. First player to catch over 100 passes in a season.

Too young to remember Sweetness, although I know that he threw a number of TD passes, as well as blocking, catching and rushing exceptionally well.

Do think Sanders would have beaten his rushing record if he'd have carried on for a bit longer.

[Boo Khaki]

Quote

First player to catch over 100 passes in a season.

 Larry Centers did that way back in 1995, though he lined up mainly at FB and not Tail, although teams used a lot more Pro sets and Offset twin backs in that era, so your FB wasn't always lining up as the "up"back anyway. LT also caught 100 exactly in 2003

The obvious guy I forgot is Gore. It's amazing he still produces despite the age and mileage on his body. I remember Eric Dickerson in a Colts uni, but they didn't get a lot of coverage prior to the Manning era so I don't really recall much about him. Tiki Barber was really talented and well-rounded, but he had real issues holding on to the ball.

[lichtie23]

Teams cancelling practices today in protest of the boy getting shot the other day

[steelmen]

I’m biased but Terrell Davis was something special, the 2000 yard season was epic considering he was getting pulled before the end of most games, just a shame he blew his knee out. His yards in playoffs was off the charts, Elway doesn’t finish his career with 2 rings without Davis.

I really want to hate Tomlinson, playing for a rival, but he was really something.

Been watching the America’s game programs on sky and the one I caught this morning was the steelers Bettis was a monster.

[AmericanFan]

Priest Holmes also deserves some love.

LT has been the best back since the turn of the century, no doubt. Sanders was the best back in the 90s and the best running back I've ever seen. Too bad he went to an awful franchise like the Lions and never played with anything but an average quarterback.

I always thought Smith was a touch overrated. He played behind some of the best offensive lines in history and had Aikman in his prime at QB. I'm not saying he sucks, but he wouldn't have had nearly the numbers he did if he played elsewhere. 

[Boo Khaki]

2 hours ago, steelmen said:

I’m biased but Terrell Davis was something special, the 2000 yard season was epic considering he was getting pulled before the end of most games, just a shame he blew his knee out. His yards in playoffs was off the charts, Elway doesn’t finish his career with 2 rings without Davis.

I really want to hate Tomlinson, playing for a rival, but he was really something.

Been watching the America’s game programs on sky and the one I caught this morning was the steelers Bettis was a monster.

See, the reason I don't rate Davis a lot higher is he played in a one-cut zone system that umpteen total no-mark backs have also completely over-achieved in. It's not that I think he wasn't talented, and you could argue that all players are the product of a system to an extent, but he played the entirety of his short career in a system that couldn't be more RB numbers friendly. If he'd played a few more years, possibly in a more traditional system, and flourished there as well, then I think he'd merit being considered in more exalted company.

Holmes was talented, no doubt, but he really only had three seasons of any note. The rest of his career was meh. He's the Kurt Warner of RB's.

Totally accept the arguments about Smith's OL and supporting cast. For me his biggest flaw was a lack of outright speed. He wasn't an RB who ever ran away from anybody, but he was remarkably adept at hitting the right crease every single time and getting everything that was there to be taken. I also think his sheer longevity is to his credit as well. It's not as if he was a modern type RB who maybe gets 15 touches most games, and they didn't shy away from using him just because they had a really efficient passing game. They pounded him a lot and he just kept trucking.

Ricky Watters was a really effective and well-rounded back who always gets forgotten about. Edgerrin James as well.

[Boo Khaki]

3 hours ago, steelmen said:

Been watching the America’s game programs on sky and the one I caught this morning was the steelers Bettis was a monster.

If you like watching power backs, there are a couple of Natrone Means highlights videos on youtube that are worth a watch. He was ridiculously talented but couldn't stay healthy. He did have a couple of years though where he was totally outrageous. He was the size of Jerome Bettis and had no trouble at all running straight through and over people, but he was also as quick and agile as a 200llb scatback. It was fun watching him run through a linebacker, juke a safety out of his shoes, and then outsprint a cornerback down the sideline. He was like Christian Okoye or Marion Butts the way he went after tacklers, but he was a hell of a lot faster and shiftier than either of those guys.

 

First three or four minutes are mostly from his rookie season, when he wasn't starting most games and was listed third on the depth-chart!

Keep an eye out for a Ryan Leaf sighting around the 10min mark 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Boo Khaki

[Fuctifano]

The Bills are all about that (Tyler) Bass as veteran K Stephen Hauschka doesn't make the cut. 

 

[strichener]

8 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

 Larry Centers did that way back in 1995, though he lined up mainly at FB and not Tail, although teams used a lot more Pro sets and Offset twin backs in that era, so your FB wasn't always lining up as the "up"back anyway. LT also caught 100 exactly in 2003

The obvious guy I forgot is Gore. It's amazing he still produces despite the age and mileage on his body. I remember Eric Dickerson in a Colts uni, but they didn't get a lot of coverage prior to the Manning era so I don't really recall much about him. Tiki Barber was really talented and well-rounded, but he had real issues holding on to the ball.

Edgerrin James was a better back than Dickerson for the colts

[steelmen]

See, the reason I don't rate Davis a lot higher is he played in a one-cut zone system that umpteen total no-mark backs have also completely over-achieved in. It's not that I think he wasn't talented, and you could argue that all players are the product of a system to an extent, but he played the entirety of his short career in a system that couldn't be more RB numbers friendly. If he'd played a few more years, possibly in a more traditional system, and flourished there as well, then I think he'd merit being considered in more exalted company.

Hey I have my orange and blue tinted specs on but you can’t blame Davis for the system. He took it and ran with it (literally) there was backs playing in the same scheme not nearly as successfully.

He is in the hall of fame for the 2000 yard season and his play off figures 8 games 204 attempts 12 td’s and 1140 yards (5.59 yards a carry)

That’s impressive no matter the scheme. At times teams knew exactly what Denver were going to do but just couldn’t stop it.

Not saying he’s the best ever but definitely in the top 5/10. Always had a soft spot for Barry Saunders and Marshall falk.

[Boo Khaki]

Top 10 of players of RB's of the past 25 years maybe, but all-time, no, I don't think he's really in that bracket at all. However, I think much of the argument about Davis is often repeated about Gale Sayers, similar lengths and shapes of career. If you contend that Sayers is top 10 all-time, then fair enough doing the same with Davis. I never saw Sayers play, but it's quite simple for me in that no matter the inherent talent, a player who is only effective for 5 or so years can't credibly be considered alongside players who did the same thing for twice as long in a lot of cases.

I suppose you can argue that point to an extent about Barry Sanders and Jim Brown as well though, although I'd counter that by saying that both of those players quit on their terms rather than having to give the game up. I think both could have easily played and remained highly effective for at least 2-3 more years, although I have a suspicion that Brown was always a hell of a lot more injured than he ever let on.

[AmericanFan]

On 23/08/2020 at 11:11, lichtie23 said:

Earl Thomas on his way out of Baltimore after a fight on the field in practice. Cowboys bound

Don't be so sure on this. Thomas is reportedly very out of shape, and by all accounts was a pretty poor teammate in Baltimore (the players council voted to get rid of him). He wasn't very good last year, and he's 31 years old. We're a long ways from Thomas being one of the best safeties in the league. At this pace, Thomas will be out of the league by 2022.

[Brummie Clyde]

Edgerrin James was a better back than Dickerson for the colts

I loved it when James signed for the Arizona Cardinals and said he was "excited to be moving to a team that played by the ocean" or something like that [emoji23]

[Brummie Clyde]

Getting my Fortè facts wrong. Think he got the most ever catches in a season (not sure if most hy RB, or just most full stop), which has now been broken by by the Panthers RB.

[Brummie Clyde]

Oh and Kevin "Glass" White has signed for the 49ers