Independence - how would you vote?

[H_B]

A wee birdy who works in Brussels

I think your source is talking utter pish.

[BerwickMad]

Poll results:

Yes - 76%

No - 18%

Seems to be one side making a good job of it.

I don't think Pie and Bovril can be used as a snapshot of the nation tbh.

[Mr Rational]

A wee birdy who works in Brussels

I think your source is talking utter pish.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. We will find out soon enough.

[Wee Bully]

I don't think Pie and Bovril can be used as a snapshot of the nation tbh.

I'm sure you're right. However, the independence vote is more than 10% higher than on the old thread. I wonder if that reflects a groundswell change.

[ArabianKnight]

I think your source is talking utter pish.

Its not that far fetched, I wouldn't go as far as what the previous poster said but I know the aide of a MEP who has pretty much said the same thing, the noises are positive from Brussels but only time will tell!

[xbl]

Don't really see why there needs to be a positive case for the status quo. It's already here so people can judge on what they already have. Its up to the separatists to persuade people of their cause, and from the outside, they don't seem to be doing a very good job at it.

What is the status quo? I mean the Scotland Act was pushed through without the consent of the people, and even then, it was beefed up when the SNP came to power. A bunch of proposals originally in Calman/proposed by the Lib Dems were suggested by the SNP, and they were refused. However, the three Unionist parties tell us that if we vote no, we will get more powers, something different. But what? What will we get? The Lib Dems have indicated that they will push for further federalism, including the addition of powers suggested by the SNP that the Lib Dems rejected, however, they are a joke party now, who had near 10 years in power in Scotland and 2 years in Scotland, but have done nothing.

The Tories have said Jam Tomorrow, as have Labour, but neither has laid out what we will get.

So I ask, what is this "status quo" that makes up the alternative to voting Yes?

[xbl]

Energy watchdog Ofgem chief warns of bill rises

Consumers are being warned they face higher energy bills as the UK becomes more reliant on energy imports. In a speech, Ofgem chief executive Alistair Buchanan will say that falls in Britain's power production capacity are likely to lead to more energy imports and customers paying more.

The energy watchdog predicts power station closures could mean a 10% fall in capacity by April alone.

Meanwhile, in Scotland, we'll be hit with higher bills despite being a net exporter of energy. Better Together!

[BerwickMad]

Don't really see why there needs to be a positive case for the status quo. It's already here so people can judge on what they already have. Its up to the separatists to persuade people of their cause, and from the outside, they don't seem to be doing a very good job at it.

What is the status quo? I mean the Scotland Act was pushed through without the consent of the people, and even then, it was beefed up when the SNP came to power. A bunch of proposals originally in Calman/proposed by the Lib Dems were suggested by the SNP, and they were refused. However, the three Unionist parties tell us that if we vote no, we will get more powers, something different. But what? What will we get? The Lib Dems have indicated that they will push for further federalism, including the addition of powers suggested by the SNP that the Lib Dems rejected, however, they are a joke party now, who had near 10 years in power in Scotland and 2 years in Scotland, but have done nothing.

The Tories have said Jam Tomorrow, as have Labour, but neither has laid out what we will get.

So I ask, what is this "status quo" that makes up the alternative to voting Yes?

Status quo as in Scotland stays part of the UK. Those little changes you're on about arnt that interesting in the grand scheme of things. As a separatist, you're better just pushing your case for independence positively rather than negative digs at the 3 major parties. Not that you're the type of person anyone would listen to anyway. No offence.

[xbl]

Status quo as in Scotland stays part of the UK. Those little changes you're on about arnt that interesting in the grand scheme of things. As a separatist, you're better just pushing your case for independence positively rather than negative digs at the 3 major parties. Not that you're the type of person anyone would listen to anyway. No offence.

So why is it that what people consistently want are more powers and devo max? What you're saying is that the independence side should lay out the precise detail of what will happen post independence, but the Unionists, who have ALL said that there will be change, don't have to bother with it.

As for positivity, yes, I frequently push positivity. However, that doesn't mean I'm not going to have a go at the Unionist campaign when they present such delicious targets.

[BerwickMad]

Yes, it's up to the separatists to tell people what changes they would bring in if they won the vote. Everyone can see what we have at the moment. I don't see much point in complicating it further. Whatever happens, I doubt my life will change much. If anything it will be good for Berwick. x

[xbl]

Yes, it's up to the separatists to tell people what changes they would bring in if they won the vote. Everyone can see what we have at the moment. I don't see much point in complicating it further. Whatever happens, I doubt my life will change much. If anything it will be good for Berwick. x

But the Unionists keep telling us that they will give us something different if we vote no. Not one party is saying that things will be the same if a No vote happens. If anything, there is more certainty in the Yes campaign. For a start, we know that we will be in the EU.

[invergowrie arab]

Yes, it's up to the separatists to tell people what changes they would bring in if they won the vote. Everyone can see what we have at the moment. I don't see much point in complicating it further. Whatever happens, I doubt my life will change much. If anything it will be good for Berwick. x

It certainly will be when our territorial ambitions in Northumbria are realised.

Now Sark rins o'er Solways sands

And tweed rins tae the ocean

Tae mark whaur England's province stands

[speckled tangerine]

That's the rub exactly XBL. We don't know what the extra 'powers' would be. They can offer up vague implications of this and that, but nothing concrete. We've been here before of course with Alec Douglas-home encouraging Scots to vote against the '79 assembly referendum, with uncanny parellels of today. Vote no and you'll get something better.

We know how that turned out.

[renton]

Yes, it's up to the separatists to tell people what changes they would bring in if they won the vote. Everyone can see what we have at the moment. I don't see much point in complicating it further. Whatever happens, I doubt my life will change much. If anything it will be good for Berwick. x

Yes, but what will the Union look like in 5 years?

[Enigma]

My first question for your brother-in-law would be "why, if you think the UK is so great, wouldn't you just move to somewhere else in the UK?" The French mother excuse is a bit weak. Do France hand out passports to anyone who has a French granny? Hope not, it would f**k up his little plan. Your brother-in-law is the type of no voter I despise; the type that thinks Scottish people are so incapable of running their own country that they'd sooner clear off than stay and try and make it a better country. Self-hating Scotsmen, f**k them.

The self haters are the worst, the worst of the worst. I got involved on another forum with a couple of ex-pat Scots peddling shite about how you can't safely walk the streets at night and all sorts of nonsense. f**k them.

Yes, it's up to the separatists to tell people what changes they would bring in if they won the vote. Everyone can see what we have at the moment. I don't see much point in complicating it further. Whatever happens, I doubt my life will change much. If anything it will be good for Berwick. x

Why are so against it then? Separatists

[BerwickMad]

The self haters are the worst, the worst of the worst. I got involved on another forum with a couple of ex-pat Scots peddling shite about how you can't safely walk the streets at night and all sorts of nonsense. f**k them.

Why are so against it then? Separatists

Wouldn't say I'm massively against it. I don't see much point in it, don't think enough people want it, and don't think it will happen though. It totally depends on what effect it will have on me personally as to whether I think separation would be a good idea or not. At the moment, more chance of a Tory government in England would be a bit shit, but I don't think being a border town next to an independent nation would be a bad thing for the town.

Separatists, unionists....meh.

Hopefully if Scotland were to become independent, there would maybe be something we could do about Scottish fascists crossing the border and disrupting the whole town marching every few years.

[Enigma]

Wouldn't say I'm massively against it. I don't see much point in it, don't think enough people want it, and don't think it will happen though. It totally depends on what effect it will have on me personally as to whether I think separation would be a good idea or not. At the moment, more chance of a Tory government in England would be a bit shit, but I don't think being a border town next to an independent nation would be a bad thing for the town.

Separatists, unionists....meh.

Hopefully if Scotland were to become independent, there would maybe be something we could do about Scottish fascists crossing the border and disrupting the whole town marching every few years.

I think Berwick should hold a plebiscite, the result presumable in favour of remaining in the UK, and then we can let sleeping dog lie. I don't like or agree with those who wish to enforce their will on the people of Berwick and hopefully, for your sake, a vote for the union would stop their shite. From my encounters with people from Berwick I know most identify more with England.

As for your use of separatist... meh, I don't care either, but you're only using it to get a reaction.

Anyway, after independence maybe we can finally punt your team into the northern counties league and get a new ambitious Scottish team in the SFL. The seethe from the OF by allowing a 'Scottish' team to move to England would be worth doing this alone.

[xbl]

I find it very interesting that there are so few people now willing to admit to being staunch no voters. Of the arch Unionists on the thread, HB has claimed he's not all that bothered, Reynard has claimed that he is voting yes, and Berwick Mad has indicated that he's not "that" against it.

Is the No vote softening?

[Mushroom]

An undecided chooses, interesting and a wake up call for both YesScotland and Better Together. Don't be put off by the host, his thought processes are perfectly rational.

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/picking-a-side/

That's a fantastic article, thanks for sharing that.

[~~~]

I find it very interesting that there are so few people now willing to admit to being staunch no voters. Of the arch Unionists on the thread, HB has claimed he's not all that bothered, Reynard has claimed that he is voting yes, and Berwick Mad has indicated that he's not "that" against it.

Is the No vote softening?

I don't think Berwick mad gets a vote tbh