Independence - how would you vote?

[H_B]

1. Was Gavin Hamilton's single test appearance for England more than 4 years after his previous Scotland appearance? If not, you are talking nonsense.

It's actually the other way around.

Scots are eligible to play for England and Wales Cricket Board, as Scotland are an associate nation, not a test playing nation. Like Ireland. So as logn as you meet nationality requirements you can switch from Scotland or Ireland to England and Wales.

Once you have played for E&W you cant go back to your associate country until 4 years have passed since your last appearance for E&W.

[lichtgilphead]

Because in Cricket, England and Wales have their own cricket team, Scotland has its own, and in Tennis the only sense in which you formally represent any national team is at the Olympics or Davis Cup, where there is a British team. This norm permeates throughout the respective sports.

Also anyone who dislikes cricket should be added to the list of people not allowed to vote, alongside those with IQs less than 120.

First mention of tennis today, I believe

Which tells you all you need to know about the event. Jamie Murray isn't one of the top 1000 singles players in the world. Maybe not even 2000.

I'm not sure why tennis was brought up by the simpleton above.

You two are normally so close.

[xbl]

Oh look, once again we have a Unionist (and his bestest apologist pal) in full deflection mode. Nothing to say about the MoD story today?

[H_B]

First mention of tennis today, I believe

Whilst I can understand your perfectly understandable wish to pretend that the contributions of Road to Eternity don't exist, it was he or she who intriduced tennis to the page.

[Saor Alba]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/trident-fleet-may-be-cut-to-two-subs-in-new-lib-dem-plan-8708328.html

Why does England's Con-Dem government fear a "pre-emptive attack" upon England by a nuclear power? Is there something that they are hiding from the people of England apart from The Military Industrial Establishment that they have stocks/shares in?

[lichtgilphead]

It's actually the other way around.

Scots are eligible to play for England and Wales Cricket Board, as Scotland are an associate nation, not a test playing nation. Like Ireland. So as logn as you meet nationality requirements you can switch from Scotland or Ireland to England and Wales.

Once you have played for E&W you cant go back to your associate country until 4 years have passed since your last appearance for E&W.

Well done. You've just repeated the point I made above in a slightly different way.

Now, how does this fit in with Ad Lib's original point that E&W and Scotland are separate cricketing nations?

Ad Lib, on 14 Jul 2013 - 21:56, said:

1. Because in Cricket, England and Wales have their own cricket team, Scotland has its own

[Ad Lib]

Oh look, once again we have a Unionist (and his bestest apologist pal) in full deflection mode. Nothing to say about the MoD story today?

Haven't read the article so can't comment. Good news for all if the cost of moving Trident is less prohibitive, though, as it presumably means in terms of timescale it will also be quicker, which is good news as it means any sovereign retainer or leaseback would be shorter, which is best for all involved.

[H_B]

Well done. You've just repeated the point I made above in a slightly different way.

Now, how does this fit in with Ad Lib's original point that E&W and Scotland are separate cricketing nations?

Ad Lib, on 14 Jul 2013 - 21:56, said:

1. Because in Cricket, England and Wales have their own cricket team, Scotland has its own

I don't agree with Ad Lib's point here to be honest. Yes, Scotland has its own cricket side, but Scots can also represent England and Wales CB.

England are the representative side for Great Britain though. The England side is the best 11 cricketers in the British Isles. Scots who play for Scotland do so because they aren't good enough to be selected for England. Likewise the Irish.

I've got no real idea why Andy Murray was brought up. Could just as easily have been Justin Rose.

[lichtgilphead]

Whilst I can understand your perfectly understandable wish to pretend that the contributions of Road to Eternity don't exist, it was he or she who intriduced tennis to the page.

To be pedantic, I would point out that RtE mentioned Andy Murray.

Ad Lib was the first to mention the "British" tennis team and make the incorrect assertion that Scotland didn't compete in international competition.

Anyway, are you planning on responding to the MoD story any time soon?

[xbl]

England are the representative side for Great Britain though.

Isn't that partly because in the eyes of the world, England and Britain are interchangeable terms?

[Ad Lib]

Well done. You've just repeated the point I made above in a slightly different way.

Now, how does this fit in with Ad Lib's original point that E&W and Scotland are separate cricketing nations?

Ad Lib, on 14 Jul 2013 - 21:56, said:

1. Because in Cricket, England and Wales have their own cricket team, Scotland has its own

They are separate cricketing nations. They play each other in international competitions. They are ranked in world rankings alongside each other. One day international cricket, especially the World Cup, is real cricket in a way that the Commonwealth Games isn't real athletics, swimming or [insert other sport here].

Eligibility to play for a national team is based on citizenship and the ICC membership tier criteria. Cricket Scotland is not a subsidiary of the EWCB.

[H_B]

To be pedantic, I would point out that RtE mentioned Andy Murray.

Ad Lib was the first to mention the "British" tennis team and make the incorrect assertion that Scotland didn't compete in international competition.

Anyway, are you planning on responding to the MoD story any time soon?

Andy Murray is a tennis player, in case you hadn't noticed. The OP on this subject bemoaned why England didn't play as Great Britain. It's because it's the England and Wales Cricket Board. He also bizarrely suggested Andy Murray had to "share" his glory. I'm not sure who he's suggesting he shared it with. Did Justin Rose share the glory for his major win?

I made no comment on the Trident stuff at all last week. I don't have any knowledge of, or interest in, nuclear weapons. I have no problem with them being in Faslane, and remaining here.

[wirez]

Are we arguing cricket now? Seriously? Who gives a flying fug for that absolute abomination of a sport

I'd rather watch womens curling....at least Scotland are decent at it

[Saor Alba]

TORIES’ PLEDGE BROKEN

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/325926/?

DAVID CAMERON has failed to deliver on his promise of a “bonfire of the quangos”.

Fewer than one in 10 of the taxpayer-funded public bodies have been axed, despite the Prime Minister pledging a cull in 2010 before he came into power.

But researchers found that out of 900 quangos, just 80 have been binned completely with others being merged or reformed. Ten await consideration.

Prof Chris Skelcher from the University of Birmingham said: “The promise to abolish quangos is far more complex than many commentators and politicians recognise.”

[lichtgilphead]

They are separate cricketing nations. They play each other in international competitions. They are ranked in world rankings alongside each other. One day international cricket, especially the World Cup, is real cricket in a way that the Commonwealth Games isn't real athletics, swimming or [insert other sport here].

Eligibility to play for a national team is based on citizenship and the ICC membership tier criteria. Cricket Scotland is not a subsidiary of the EWCB.

When did Scotland ever play a full 5 day test series against anyone, never mind England?

Technically, under the current system you could have 22 Scots playing in an England (and Wales) vs Scotland 1 day international.

As HB has already stated, the "E & W" team is effectively the British Isles 1st XI. As such, the OP was entirely correct to question why it is commonly known as "England"

[Saor Alba]

Are we arguing cricket now? Seriously? Who gives a flying fug for that absolute abomination of a sport

I'd rather watch womens curling....at least Scotland are decent at it

The Pro-Union shills and trolls love their cricket and taking the thread off-topic with any and every bit of shoite imaginable at every opportunity.

[H_B]

As HB has already stated, the "E & W" team is effectively the British Isles 1st XI. As such, the OP was entirely correct to question why it is commonly known as "England"

Well, you could argue that it should be England and Wales Cricket Board, but that's it really.

It shouldn't be the British Isles, because there are Irish and Scottish sides also. Scots are eligible to play for EWCB, but then so are South Africans that meet residence requirements.

[Saor Alba]

How England's civil servants are spending millions of taxpayers' money on foreign trips, fast food and ukuleles

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362938/How-civil-servants-spending-millions-taxpayers-money-foreign-trips-fast-food-ukuleles.html

Civil servants spent £7.5million on council credit cards, paying for parking tickets, KFC takeaways and even ukuleles with taxpayers' money.

Items bought on the council cards also included garden patio sets, a bowler hat and SpongeBob SquarePants cushions.

One local authority officer spent £423 on a tour of Arsenal's Emirates Stadium, while others paid off parking tickets dished out by their own employers.

Staff from five local authorities in the West Midlands racked up the £7.5million total using 1,500 'purchase' or 'procurement' cards.

The cards paid for travel to Paris and Venice as well as hotel stays and dozens of lunches from Marks and Spencer.

Dudley Council was the biggest spender, racking up £5.5million over 50,407 transactions on 862 cards.

Council staff made 147 taxpayer-funded visits to KFC and McDonald's in the 2011 to 2012 tax year.

Walsall Council's 183 cards bought items including eight ukuleles totalling £159.92 and edible printer ink costing £75.75.

The council spent £1,116,545.87 from April 2010 to April 2013, including the purchase of a £129.99 trampoline by a senior administrator.

Records also showed the Walsall council cards were used for £640 on two patio furniture sets, £137 on an ice cube maker and £11.97 for three SpongeBob SquarePants cushions.

Wolverhampton City Council has spent £4,547,851.48 in four years on its cards, although it could not produce detailed figures on its day-to-day expenditure.

Sandwell Council has 12 active credit cards, spending £145,232.36 in the past four financial years.

Wyre Forest Council in Worcestershire has 13 procurement cards and spent £66,370.79 in 607 transactions in the past financial year.

The councils say they had not paid any interest on the items bought as they paid off monthly statements on time.

John Polychronakis, chief executive of Dudley Council said: 'Purchase cards are a modern, efficient way of dealing with and managing local authority transactions to improve efficiency and reduce unnecessary paper trails and bureaucracy.'

Matthew Sinclair, of the TaxPayers' Alliance, said: 'Councils should publish bills for their taxpayer-funded purchase cards automatically.

'That way residents can scrutinise how their cash is spent and hold wasteful bureaucrats to account.

'Town halls have a duty to keep this spending down, some are blowing a fortune unnecessarily and putting the cards in the hands of too many staff.'

[H_B]

I'm still curious as to who Andy Murray and Justin Rose "shared" their glory with...?

[Ad Lib]

When did Scotland ever play a full 5 day test series against anyone, never mind England?

Technically, under the current system you could have 22 Scots playing in an England (and Wales) vs Scotland 1 day international.

As HB has already stated, the "E & W" team is effectively the British Isles 1st XI. As such, the OP was entirely correct to question why it is commonly known as "England"

Test Cricket isn't the barometer of whether or not you are a cricketing nation. Next you'll be telling me that Eoin Morgan is evidence that Ireland just play for Britain in cricket.

Scotland are an ICC member and play international level cricket in their own right, and are ranked by the ICC in one day forms of the game. If they become good enough consistently and seek to become a Test nation, there is a clear set of criteria and a clear pathway through which they can become one. The eligibility of Scots to play in the English and Welsh Cricket team is entirely an accident of citizenship law, and really just a more prevalent manifestation of the reason Trott, Pietersen, Morgan, Strauss and others have been able to play for England. Cricket Scotland is not a subsidiary of the England and Wales Cricket Board, but a member in its own right of the ICC, the international body that regulates non-domestic cricket across the globe. Scottish cricket has evolved autonomously from England's cricketing institutions in the way, for example, Welsh cricket hasn't, hence Wales do not have their own cricket team despite having (probably) as many if not more good cricketers than we do.

Technically you could have an England team full of people with South African citizenship, or Dutch citizenship. It doesn't mean that South Africa or the Netherlands are just part of the b*****d English Crown. Scottish eligibility is entirely citizenship driven, and in the event Scotland becomes an independent country, the gradual loss of UK citizenship would mean fewer and fewer Scots would be eligible to play for the England and Wales team.