Wile E Coyote Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You never did anyway. Pysh supports compared to through here. Fair enough. We think the same about the east in the west but thats for Scottish Cup ties when people are more inclined to travel. How much worse will they be for a normal league game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 So ... meeting held? When do we start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So ... meeting held? When do we start? It's Junior fitba, so it should be sometime around 1953 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutralfan80 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The cooperative could maybe sponsor it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 It's Junior fitba, so it should be sometime around 1953 Touche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I don't agree with the assertion that things have got worse since 2002 in the West. A place in the top division has much more value, there are bigger matches on a more regular basis, it has coincided IMO with a greater media presence and the entry of the bigger sides into the Scottish Cup. I do think though that crowds have been affected, but only by the 2pm kick off. We still clash with a lunchtime kick off on TV and until that is altered, crowds will be affected. What I would say though that any team that suddenly gains financial backing can have a greater detrimental effect on everyone else because of the small market the clubs operate in, as the ambitious clubs try to play catch up without the revenue or funds to do so. If a team did that in a smaller regional league, it would perhaps be a bit easier to ignore as they'd not be a direct competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 As with most things we don't develop - rather just take a leap into the darkness and calling it progression The original super leagues were simply the 6 regions amalgamating into 3 rather than taking an opportunity to redraw the map. This would have been a logical step - providing fresh opponents. Now we are talking about another change - a change which clearly divides the paying public (that suggests a problem right from the start). Not to mention possible additional costs to clubs who aren't awash with money - without a sponsor to add attraction. Personally for me the natural progression given our current product was a round robin play-off between the 3 Super League winners on a home and away basis. At the end of the day the majority of junior clubs ambitions are playing locally against their local rivals and the Scottish Cup as a yearly challenge against the rest. The paying punters probably largely want the same - yes you will always have the few who dream on pyramids and playing above the reality of their situation. But the harsh reality is junior football is largely about locality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Personally for me the natural progression given our current product was a round robin play-off between the 3 Super League winners on a home and away basis. But that's already been done - the Supercup. It was a fiasco because it was played in pre-season and clubs had to use signed players. With no need to get players signed in great number until a month later it was on a hiding to nothing. So when would you do this kind of thing? No time in June and once you get into September the ship has sailed IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 As with most things we don't develop - rather just take a leap into the darkness and calling it progression The original super leagues were simply the 6 regions amalgamating into 3 rather than taking an opportunity to redraw the map. This would have been a logical step - providing fresh opponents. Now we are talking about another change - a change which clearly divides the paying public (that suggests a problem right from the start). Not to mention possible additional costs to clubs who aren't awash with money - without a sponsor to add attraction. Personally for me the natural progression given our current product was a round robin play-off between the 3 Super League winners on a home and away basis. At the end of the day the majority of junior clubs ambitions are playing locally against their local rivals and the Scottish Cup as a yearly challenge against the rest. The paying punters probably largely want the same - yes you will always have the few who dream on pyramids and playing above the reality of their situation. But the harsh reality is junior football is largely about locality Junior football isn't about anything - never mind locality. It's a meaningless, outdated concept from another era. There are any number of opportunities for clubs to play locally. And the pyramid isn't a dream - it's a reality in almost every other developed football culture. Only in Scotland could we find folk who would prevent the genuinely capable from playing at the best level open to them. Playing locally is not contingent on not being in a pyramid. Playing locally would be open to any team playing at the right level. Are you in favour or against the concept of an East/West league given that Montrose is "local" in the league below us right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 But that's already been done - the Supercup. It was a fiasco because it was played in pre-season and clubs had to use signed players. With no need to get players signed in great number until a month later it was on a hiding to nothing. So when would you do this kind of thing? No time in June and once you get into September the ship has sailed IMO. Perfectly correct - the only realistic time would be in the current season as the following season is normally a different squad. The real point - is the current product is far from perfect in many ways. So to suggest a new format just because you have largely made a pigs ear of the current one isn't a solution. The first step is to work at getting the current product working properly as intended A scheduled fixture card would be a start - not knowing to a Sunday the following weeks fixture is unacceptable. The league and Scottish will always be any teams main priority - concentrate on getting these competitions played first. The other cups then just need to fit into the season and their formats could be tinkered with to suit the overall current requirements. Teams could in exceptional circumstances opt out. Just my view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Junior football isn't about anything - never mind locality. It's a meaningless, outdated concept from another era. There are any number of opportunities for clubs to play locally. And the pyramid isn't a dream - it's a reality in almost every other developed football culture. Only in Scotland could we find folk who would prevent the genuinely capable from playing at the best level open to them. Playing locally is not contingent on not being in a pyramid. Playing locally would be open to any team playing at the right level. Are you in favour or against the concept of an East/West league given that Montrose is "local" in the league below us right now? Totally against at present - the real problem with the current situation was it wasn't fully thought out at the start. I don't see a solution being where you move from one badly run idea to another. Surely you need to concentrate on getting the current product working - before moving to an idea not fully supported. I am not against the idea/concept of a pyramid - I'm against diluting a p*ss poor product further. We seem hell bent on giving up on the current product and moving on because we failed to make it work properly by poor management and organisation. All that does is give you a new product with the same poor management and organisation. We should be concentrating on getting people through the gates in the first instance. If they don't come now they aint't going to come because you play different teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 But the current product has been in place for more than 10 years now. It's not something new that just needs the snagging sorted. If it were capable of being fixed then it would have been done long before now. I don't think there is anything wrong with it actually. The concept of having teams from the Lothians, Fife and Tayside in the same division is perfectly acceptable. But to determine the true champions of Junior football, you need to brigade the strongest teams in the top division with the next strongest set of teams underneath them - whether you go back to a more local level at that point or the point below that is up for grabs. A super cup semi final and final never tested anything nor would it ever be seen as a benchmark of the best. I'd be happy to sign up to that but would take it a step further and bring in the best of the Lowland League. You can see where that takes us ... Anyway the points you are raising - fixtures and primacy of competitions - are nothing really to do with the structure of the regional leagues. They are problems which have existed in Junior football since Adam was a boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 We should be concentrating on getting people through the gates in the first instance. If they don't come now they aint't going to come because you play different teams. What will get people through the gates in this day and age then? If the attraction of best v best doesn't do it then what does? Do you think getting a decent sponsor stands more chance of success if the sponsor knows that the set up is best v best or if it's back to old East Region? Not that there is a cat's chance we'll ever go back to old East Region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyzone Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 There are people on this thread in favour of going back to an Ayrshire league but are the same ones who criticise the Ardagh Cup and don't even give the Ayrshire Cup a mention. How about a half season local league, with the top few from each section battling it out for a West Championship in the second half of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clash city rocker Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 There are people on this thread in favour of going back to an Ayrshire league but are the same ones who criticise the Ardagh Cup and don't even give the Ayrshire Cup a mention. How about a half season local league, with the top few from each section battling it out for a West Championship in the second half of the season? The Ardagh is a waste of time and the Ayrshire Cup is a worthless tinpot trophy.The numpties that disbanded the AJFA not only retained the most useless of competitions but also chucked out one of the oldest cups in fitba..the Ayrshire Junior Challenge Cup as well as the Irvine and District Cup replacing them with a new totally pointless( why should there be an Ayrshire Cup when there is no Ayrshire region anyway ?)piece of silverware that has no history behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tell_me_more Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Outcome of the meeting anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseyposey Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 It was decided at the meeting that Ayrshire clubs are all the bees knees and they should just form a new super duper league themselves as they are better then the rest of us put together............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowie Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Great - sense at last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Probably best to just crack on with the integrated structure, pop the Ayrshire boys into their District league so they can play local games and if they change their minds they can work their way back up to the top flight. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marconi Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 yes please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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