Burma Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Really depends on how you define Staus quo Technically, the status quo will not remain even if the Unionist parties offer nowt, as the full powers of the Scotland Act don;t kick in until 2016. If you're taking a broader, more gernic defintion of status quo as "devoltuion (however defined) within the UK" then yeah, technically the status que is the most popular option When offered the choice between.the status quo, further devolution, and full Independence then the status quo is the least popular option. Regardless, change is coming. If we vote NO then I agree with Andrew Neil, powers will be stripped from the SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 That's nonsense, just about every poll conducted showed voters want more powers. If that was just an obsession with the political chattering classes the polling wouldn't be so high. The Scottish parliament is becoming more and more relevant to the people of Scotland and in my view Westminster is becoming more detached. Do a poll to ascertain how much Scots actually know about what powers and responsibilities Holyrood has and you'll probably find most of them don't know what powers it has already. They could probably tell you a handful of very broad areas that the Scottish Parliament covers but they probably couldn't tell you what proportion of public spending in Scotland it is responsible for raising and spending respectively. This was exploited by the SNP when they kicked up a fuss about the Energy Bill down in Westminster, where a particular scheme involved the capacity to issue a certain type of closure order, which, separately from the Scotland Act, since energy is a reserved matter, the Westminster Government had given the Scottish Government limited control over. The entire scheme was being replaced with something else, rendering these orders redundant, so the power didn't exist in the new scheme. SNP cry foul about powers being taken away from the Scottish Government and Parliament when a) the Parliament never had any power and b) the power the Government had was only ever discretionary and not a power that was relevant to the new scheme's framework in what was a reserved matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 When offered the choice between.the status quo, further devolution, and full Independence then the status quo is the least popular option. Regardless, change is coming. If we vote NO then I agree with Andrew Neil, powers will be stripped from the SG. And as i said "further devo" can be seen as an extension of the status quo within the context of "devolution within the UK" Andrew Neil the BBC presenter? What did he say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Do a poll to ascertain how much Scots actually know about what powers and responsibilities Holyrood has and you'll probably find most of them don't know what powers it has already. They could probably tell you a handful of very broad areas that the Scottish Parliament covers but they probably couldn't tell you what proportion of public spending in Scotland it is responsible for raising and spending respectively. Such a poll has already been done. "When asked about which areas were currently devolved to the Scottish parliament, only 50% of voters were aware that education is already a devolved power, 47% mentioned healthcare and 35% free care for the elderly, with 34% indicating that transport was a devolved power" I don't think that's any sort of failure on the part of the electorate of Holyrood fwiw, many people also won't be aware of how much responsibilty local councils have for public services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 And as i said "further devo" can be seen as an extension of the status quo within the context of "devolution within the UK" Andrew Neil the BBC presenter? What did he say? Yes it can be, but im not sure that isnt already factored in to the status quo perception and is either not widely understood or seen as "negligible". Yes Andrew Neil the BBC presenter. He effectively said that voting NO would alter the mindest of the unionist parties and provide them with the balance of power which will allow them to remove powers from Holyrood, and that they would then do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Such a poll has already been done. "When asked about which areas were currently devolved to the Scottish parliament, only 50% of voters were aware that education is already a devolved power, 47% mentioned healthcare and 35% free care for the elderly, with 34% indicating that transport was a devolved power" I don't think that's any sort of failure on the part of the electorate of Holyrood fwiw, many people also won't be aware of how much responsibilty local councils have for public services. See this is the interesting thing. The population don't even understand what it means to have powers devolved if they are saying "free care for the elderly". That's a policy, not a power. They seem to be conflating what Holyrood has specifically done with what it has the power to do. This is problematic when further devolution is quite firmly about the latter not the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yes it can be, but im not sure that isnt already factored in to the status quo perception and is either not widely understood or seen as "negligible". Yes Andrew Neil the BBC presenter. He effectively said that voting NO would alter the mindest of the unionist parties and provide them with the balance of power which will allow them to remove powers from Holyrood, and that they would then do so. Where did he say that? interesting,I didn;t think Neill made statemenst like that (as in predictions about future behaviour for parties) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 See this is the interesting thing. The population don't even understand what it means to have powers devolved if they are saying "free care for the elderly". That's a policy, not a power. They seem to be conflating what Holyrood has specifically done with what it has the power to do. This is problematic when further devolution is quite firmly about the latter not the former. Yeah. So that's why I'm a tad skeptical when poll after poll talk about further powers - are people thinking about health, education and transport in these scenarios? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Where did he say that? interesting,I didn;t think Neill made statemenst like that (as in predictions about future behaviour for parties) You've clearly never watched This Week, where he does it every single, err, week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Where did he say that? interesting,I didn;t think Neill made statemenst like that (as in predictions about future behaviour for parties) He regularly speaks at unionist fundraising events organised by UKOK and disguised as "charity dinners". I believe it was at one of these events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 You've clearly never watched This Week, where he does it every single, err, week. I haven;t weatched this week in a looong time - Alan Johnson's horrible shirts put me off. My point is, when he says things like that, is he not playing devil;s advocate to provoke a response form his guest? He regularly speaks at unionist fundraising events organised by UKOK and disguised as "charity dinners". I believe it was at one of these events. I did not know that. What is UKOK? is this a seperate thing from BT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 And as i said "further devo" can be seen as an extension of the status quo within the context of "devolution within the UK" Andrew Neil the BBC presenter? What did he say? “Devolution, the Calman Commission, the Scotland Bill, the Edinburgh Agreement, all of this and more you have, is because Westminster parties are scared of the SNP. If you vote ‘No’ you massively change the balance of power and they will not only give you nothing, but will probably take powers away from the Scottish Parliament”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I did not know that. What is UKOK? is this a seperate thing from BT?I was attempting to be facetious and label the unionist movement with UKOK ( as in U KOK) but it was obviously a shite joke so wont be doing that again. I thought it was particularly insightful from him. He recognised that what powers Scotland has secured are the result of an attempt to placate the Independence movement, and once this fear is removed from the equation (a NO vote) then the desire to provide more powers, or even to sustain the current ones, will cease to exist and that the political pressure will be to move in the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 “Devolution, the Calman Commission, the Scotland Bill, the Edinburgh Agreement, all of this and more you have, is because Westminster parties are scared of the SNP. If you vote ‘No’ you massively change the balance of power and they will not only give you nothing, but will probably take powers away from the Scottish Parliament”. Who said that? Neil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Who said that? Neil?Yes. Cheers Baxter. This is the statement Andrew Neil made that I was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Who said that? Neil? Fucking hell. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yes. Cheers Baxter. This is the statement Andrew Neil made that I was referring to. Fucking hell. Yes. thanks chaps - i ggoled it but got nothing back - is there a source? Not denying it, although i find the language used interesting - it appears to be him addressing a pro-indy audience, or at least members of the Scottish electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I see pro-independence website Wings Over Scotland are crowd-funding an appeal to raise £53k over the next 35 days. They have nearly raised £40k already in a matter of hours!!! That's quite incredible! http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-finish-the-job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I see pro-independence website Wings Over Scotland are crowd-funding an appeal to raise £53k over the next 35 days. They have nearly raised £40k already in a matter of hours!!! That's quite incredible! http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-finish-the-job Does the guy need a new conservatory or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Does the guy need a new conservatory or something? Looks like he'll get to his target of £53k in one day! To quote Lamont "I'm astonished!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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