Tubbs Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 What is your position on: Trident The monarchy NATO? All you do is criticise the SNP position. What would you do different? Do different ? well vote no for a start. Are you asking for position son these things in general or after a potential yes vote? My main criticism of the SNP is based on the 'things will be different' position yet on each of the above you have political gymnastics ongoing which are same old same old politics. Evidence the ongoing NATO debate on this site where a self described nuclear alliance is being debated as no such thing . Like the EU scenario where there are doubts that somehow need to be portrayed as absolutely groundless. There is also the underlying deceit that an apparently united yes camp is putting out there when I think it would disintegrate post a yes and lead to real instability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I would happily keep the monarchy forever if we became independent. It's really not an issue for me. I doubt I would vote in a referendum on whether we retained it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Elections will take place before independence day. Vote for the greens as they are anti-nato and anti monarchy. Or, you could just stop whinging like a big lassie Might be better to stick to fact checking rather than humour perhaps? Still proves a point that a vote for yes is a vote for the SNP's indy outlook no matter what the cynical deceivers would have you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Do different ? well vote no for a start. Are you asking for position son these things in general or after a potential yes vote? My main criticism of the SNP is based on the 'things will be different' position yet on each of the above you have political gymnastics ongoing which are same old same old politics. Evidence the ongoing NATO debate on this site where a self described nuclear alliance is being debated as no such thing . Like the EU scenario where there are doubts that somehow need to be portrayed as absolutely groundless. There is also the underlying deceit that an apparently united yes camp is putting out there when I think it would disintegrate post a yes and lead to real instability. 1/NATO is a nuclear alliance where you don't need nukes to be a member. I'm not sure why you're having problems with that. 2/Any doubts are absolutely groundless. Juncker says so. 3/The Yes camp isn't united, never has been. Why would it be? It's a disparate number of groups with one common aim but many points of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 3/The Yes camp isn't united, never has been. Why would it be? It's a disparate number of groups with one common aim but many points of view. Yip i get called tory boy but the people i canvass with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Might be better to stick to fact checking rather than humour perhaps? Still proves a point that a vote for yes is a vote for the SNP's indy outlook no matter what the cynical deceivers would have you think. f**k off, the SNP have made it clear that there will be a cross-party group in charge of negotiations pre-independence and that the constitution will have input from many many groups so as to be as consensual as possible. If you're moaning about having to wait two months to vote for what ever party you want, you're a twat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact as a sovereign nation we will be able to choose our own path and elect a government which best fits views on things. I want a republic at some point in the future but I'm not in a state of perma rage over retaining the monarchy. If enough people want rid then that's what will happen. Same with NATO. I'm with you. It's called Democracy. Something the NO voters seem to dislike. They want to stick with an extremely rich royal family and their cronies the lords. They prefer to give their taxes to the rich and claw back benefits from the poor. MPs challenge tax exemptions for Prince Charles's estate The Guardian, Friday 15 February 2013 18.13 GMTPrince Charles has become embroiled in the parliamentary crusade against tax avoidance after the powerful public accounts committee demanded the government justify tax exemptions enjoyed by his £728m hereditary estate. Margaret Hodge, who chairs the Commons committee that last year investigated tax avoidance by Google and Amazon and accused Starbucks of "immoral" behaviour, has asked ministers if they can still defend an arrangement that allows the Duchy of Cornwall not to pay corporation tax or capital gains tax on trading that last year provided Prince Charles with an £18.3m private income. The public accounts committee (PAC) said it made the move after more than 30 MPs and members of the public complained about the duchy's arrangements. A full inquiry is likely to be launched into the matter, a committee source said. The PAC is also likely to investigate the wider royal finances including public spending on the Queen and Prince Charles's travel and official homes. ............... That b*****d sent his lackey in July 2013 to meet a bunch of MP's to explain why he shouldn't pay tax. THAT was the same week the government started to claw back benefits from the poor. This is happening just now. Vote Tory, Labour, Liberal and these sods will always get away with it. .......... Vote YES and they will be history. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Do different ? well vote no for a start. Are you asking for position son these things in general or after a potential yes vote? My main criticism of the SNP is based on the 'things will be different' position yet on each of the above you have political gymnastics ongoing which are same old same old politics. Evidence the ongoing NATO debate on this site where a self described nuclear alliance is being debated as no such thing . Like the EU scenario where there are doubts that somehow need to be portrayed as absolutely groundless. There is also the underlying deceit that an apparently united yes camp is putting out there when I think it would disintegrate post a yes and lead to real instability. Yeah, it's a military alliance where some members have nuclear weapons. Being actively hostile to nuclear weapons does not mean being actively hostile to NATO's principles, particularly where it's principles are based around collective defence, not the owning and sharing of nuclear technology. Therefore there is no moral or legal reason for NATO not to admit Scotland and there certainly is no practical reason not to. This is consistent and not some form of 'gymnastics'. Personally I'm in favour of NATO membership and EU memberhsip while being opposed to continuing the monarchy. Not everything can or will change at once. You have trotted that argument out for so long. Independence is not the end of the line, it's the scaffolding about which we can build the nation we want. Want rid of the monarchy? Never gonna happen in the UK, better chance of it in an indy Scotland, same goes with staying in the EU or removing oursleve sif necessery from NATO, or even a future Scotland building it's own H-bomb if it so wished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 f**k off, the SNP have made it clear that there will be a cross-party group in charge of negotiations pre-independence and that the constitution will have input from many many groups so as to be as consensual as possible. If you're moaning about having to wait two months to vote for what ever party you want, you're a twat. Yes, that cross party consensus stuff looks realistic with attitude's like yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yes, that cross party consensus stuff looks realistic with attitude's like yours. Lucky he's not on the cross party group then, isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yes, that cross party consensus stuff looks realistic with attitude's like yours. Holy cow, what have I got to do with it? What irrelevant bullshit are you going to come up with next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Holy cow, what have I got to do with it? What irrelevant bullshit are you going to come up with next? Lucky he's not on the cross party group then, isn't it. He is very cross right enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 He is very cross right enough. No fucking wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 He is very cross right enough. I imagine the intellectual fallacy of conflating his opinion with that of a civic and political cross party group, that he has nothing to do with, has likely never met or will meet and has no influence over probably got him that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact as a sovereign nation we will be able to choose our own path and elect a government which best fits views on things. I want a republic at some point in the future but I'm not in a state of perma rage over retaining the monarchy. If enough people want rid then that's what will happen. Same with NATO. We're not going to be a sovereign nation according to the proposed interim constitution from the SNP. It preserves the Royal prerogative. Where's that coming from then, the people? Don't think so pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tio Pepe Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Lucky he's not on the cross party group then, isn't it. Perhaps. Unfortunately the SNP would be on it. Their behaviour on Holyrood committees suggests that cross-party consensus may not be a realistic outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I imagine the intellectual fallacy of conflating his opinion with that of a civic and political cross party group, that he has nothing to do with, has likely never met or will meet and has no influence over probably got him that way. I couldn't resist it; talk of consensus alongside abuse in the same post just got my sense of irony. Is there any actual detail of what this cross party group will look like, what powers or responsibilities it will have, who will appoint it etc ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Perhaps. Unfortunately the SNP would be on it. Their behaviour on Holyrood committees suggests that cross-party consensus may not be a realistic outcome. Really? They did well enough in managing the parlimaent as a minority government from 07-11, so they must have some skills of compromise and persuasion, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I couldn't resist it; talk of consensus alongside abuse in the same post just got my sense of irony. Is there any actual detail of what this cross party group will look like, what powers or responsibilities it will have, who will appoint it etc ? It's been a while since I read the white paper, so couldn't say. No doubt representatives of the other parties for a start, depending on who from those parties would want to be involved. members of 'civic' scotland, and all that bullshit. Pre-eminant lawyers, lots of them, I'd imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Might be better to stick to fact checking rather than humour perhaps? Still proves a point that a vote for yes is a vote for the SNP's indy outlook no matter what the cynical deceivers would have you think. Nope, sorry, you are talking pish. A yes vote isn't a vote for the SNP no matter how many times you say it is. I'll leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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