H_B Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Not really, as the financial well being of a country is best secured in the long terms by the people who have a vested interest in it prospering. That is the people who live there. So Scotland as a country should be able to govern itself, finanical security comes from a stable and representative democracy. That's nonsense really. And we already have a stable and representative democracy. Do you think for example that Wales' financial wellbeing would be better as part of the UK or Independent? Edited August 20, 2014 by H_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Not really, as the financial well being of a country is best secured in the long terms by the people who have a vested interest in it prospering. That is the people who live there. So Scotland as a country should be able to govern itself, finanical security comes from a stable and representative democracy.Some people may just believe they're better off belonging to a greater union. Whether they're right or not is open to debate, but there's a lot more to the decision than just needing to believe in democracy and recognising Scotland as a country. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Some people may just believe they're better off belonging to a greater union. Whether they're right or not is open to debate, but there's a lot more to the decision than just needing to believe in democracy and recognising Scotland as a country. The whole "country" thing is an excercise in utter stupidity. There is no definition of country. It's a completely meaningless claim. Fife can claim to be a country. So can Cornwall. Or Catalonia. Or Quebec. Scotland has no international personality, has no control over its own borders and cannot enter into treaties with any true international person. It's a region of a greater whole. No more or less important than Yorkshire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The whole "country" thing is an excercise in utter stupidity. There is no definition of country. It's a completely meaningless claim. Fife can claim to be a country. So can Cornwall. Or Catalonia. Or Quebec. Scotland has no international personality, has no control over its own borders and cannot enter into treaties with any true international person. It's a region of a greater whole. No more or less important than Yorkshire. A typical proud Scot, there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 A typical proud Scot, there. I'm certainly not proud of being a nationality. It's a completely bizarre thing to be in my view. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'm certainly not proud of being a nationality. It's a completely bizarre thing to be in my view. H_B; citizen of the world. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The whole "country" thing is an excercise in utter stupidity. There is no definition of country. It's a completely meaningless claim. Fife can claim to be a country. So can Cornwall. Or Catalonia. Or Quebec. Scotland has no international personality, has no control over its own borders and cannot enter into treaties with any true international person. It's a region of a greater whole. No more or less important than Yorkshire. Surely, what is meant goes beyond mere legal technicalities. Scotland is an idea, a mental space in people's heads based on shared experience. it doesn't matter about it's 'international personality' it matters what the people who live there think it is, and it's relative importance vis a vis Yorkshire is based entirely on how the people who live in Scotland view it. That's surely what the whole fucking debate is about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placidcasual Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'm certainly not proud of being a nationality. It's a completely bizarre thing to be in my view. Correct. It's like being proud of having blue eyes. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I get that Scotland is a 'country', but I don't see what difference it makes. It doesn't mean that the people living there need to be grouped as a whole all the time, with nationalists desperate to separate themselves as 'a people' away from everyone else. In these islands we can group ourselves any which way, from nationality, class, language, sexuality, race, political beliefs or whatever. I've just never been one to consider nationality all that important. I dislike how nationalists seeks to create divide and emphasise difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The whole "country" thing is an excercise in utter stupidity. There is no definition of country. It's a completely meaningless claim. Fife can claim to be a country. So can Cornwall. Or Catalonia. Or Quebec. Scotland has no international personality, has no control over its own borders and cannot enter into treaties with any true international person. It's a region of a greater whole. No more or less important than Yorkshire. Why? Why are you the only person on here that doesn't see Scotland as a country? If we were just a region then the UK would be the UR. JOCK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Correct. It's like being proud of having blue eyes. I am rather proud of my blue eyes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Why? Why are you the only person on here that doesn't see Scotland as a country? If we were just a region then the UK would be the UR. JOCK. I've no issues with people calling Scotland a country. It's a meaningless claim. Region, nation, country - none of them are important. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 H_B; citizen of the world. That's right. I believe in the individual, and an individual's rights and achievements. There's no achievement in having been born on a particular part of the planet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'm certainly not proud of being a nationality. It's a completely bizarre thing to be in my view. ???? You not proud to be British now then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Correct. It's like being proud of having blue eyes. Not quite, while both nationality and the colour of your eyes are by and large, accidents of birth, you as an individual and collectively can have an influence on how a nation develops, what it achieves. It's a fairly abstract level of identification but no less real or valid. The whole constituency of the islands were proud, or remains so, of the NHS - even those who aren't doctors or nurses, work there, built or administer the hospitals, becuase they felt they contributed in some way - that the NHS reflected their values. You can have that in a nation: Pride in a shared collective experience that you help shape in some small way. Same with my football team. I support the Rovers purely by accident of birth, it doesn't stop me feeling pride in it's achievements, shame in it's many shortcomings. It's a collective experience for those who support it, we as a football support, as a nation are the institutional memory of the organisations we choose to belong to. Edited August 20, 2014 by renton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 That's surely what the whole fucking debate is about. Well, speak for yourself really. this debate will be about different things to different people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 You not proud to be British now then? I've never been proud to be British. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Not quite, while both nationality and the colour of your eyes are by and large, accidents of birth, you as an individual and collectively can have an influence on how a nation develops, what it achieves. Or as how a town develops, or street, or county, or continent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I get that Scotland is a 'country', but I don't see what difference it makes. It doesn't mean that the people living there need to be grouped as a whole all the time, with nationalists desperate to separate themselves as 'a people' away from everyone else. In these islands we can group ourselves any which way, from nationality, class, language, sexuality, race, political beliefs or whatever. I've just never been one to consider nationality all that important. I dislike how nationalists seeks to create divide and emphasise difference. Would France like to be governed by Germany? Would England like to be governed by France? We want our COUNTRY to govern itself. I want my governments priority to be my country. The UK governments priority isn't Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland or even England, it's London. *uck that pal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Or as how a town develops, or street, or county, or continent. Yup, overlapping identities, some of which come across stronger than others, mostly I would think as a matter of distance, both geographical and temporal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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