Helicopter crashes into Clutha pub, Glasgow

[AberdeenBud]

Looks like the funerals have started.

 

Is it just me who thinks the police honour guard and motorcycle outriders were out of order at the pilot's funeral?

 

The lack of a mayday call means it was almost certainly pilot error, so why does the public foot the bill?

 

I do have a relevant degree, pilots experience and the literary skills to understand that when I said it was almost certainly pilot error I was being completely accurate.

 

No doubt you have much better skill and experience than me, so based on the available evidence you'll have your own far more considered opinion on the likely cause of the crash, right?

Oh dear.

[jock001]

Because you claimed that it was a state subsidised funeral without having the slightest idea what you were talking about, pretty much like every other post you've made, that's why it's ridiculous.

Well apparently there was a police officer who came into the thread and said that the police had a whip round so the cost to the taxpayer wasn't that much.

So to whatever degree, he certainly thought it was state subsidised.

Wasn't that you?

[jock001]

Oh dear.

You were meant to be showing something I was backtracking from like you claimed.

Did you get confused?

[philpy]

Seriously jock, give it a rest. It's getting a bit tiresome now.

[Ned Nederlander]

I find the lack of a mayday pretty suspicious.

It's not though, it really isn't - It's way down the priority list when something like this happens,

This is from the site linked to earlier:

THE FORCED LANDING:

ENTRY:

1. Lower collective.

2. Right Pedal.

3. Aft cyclic.

DESCENT:

1. Check:

- Rotor RPM

- Airspeed

- Balance

2. Select a suitable landing area considering the wind.

3. Set up type of auto to make landing area.

4. Mayday call.

5. Transponder 7700.

6. Passenger brief.

7. If time permits -consider the possibility of restart

-if restart not possible turn off : Fuel Cock

Master switch

Alternator.

Oh look - it's way down below trying to fly the thing !

Did I? Or did I say something like 'correct me if I'm wrong but the rotors need to be spinning to send a helicopter end over end, otherwise there's nothing to cause such a dramatic change in pitch'.

Thinking about it more, I guess a huge thermal could do that or if the aircraft fell from high enough to build angular momentum from air moving over differently angled control surfaces. From a few hundred feet altitude in glasgow, I still can't imagine a way for a helicopter to go end over end unless it started while the rotors were going.

Consider yourself corrected.

I still think the accident report is most likely to rule pilot error and one of my major reasons for thinking that is the lack of a mayday.

I think human factors are quite high up the list now but only because transmission issues were not found during the initial inspection (although something might yet be found during more in depth inspections of course !) as always I'll speculate on what we are being told.

You on the other hand simply stated from the beginning that pilot error was most likely because of the lack of a mayday call ...

Let's take another look:

ENTRY:

1. Lower collective.

2. Right Pedal.

3. Aft cyclic.

DESCENT:

1. Check:

- Rotor RPM

- Airspeed

- Balance

2. Select a suitable landing area considering the wind.

3. Set up type of auto to make landing area.

4. Mayday call.

5. Transponder 7700.

6. Passenger brief.

7. If time permits -consider the possibility of restart

-if restart not possible turn off : Fuel Cock

Master switch

Alternator.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Ned Nederlander

[Sergeant Wilson]

Turn of fuel cock.

Civility costs nothing!

[welshbairn]

So you've decided your speculation on the cause of the crash is fine but mine is clearly wrong. This despite me giving pretty decent reasons why I'm better placed to speculate than most.

I know I'm going to regret this, but what are they? The reasons why you're better placed to speculate, that is..

Edited December 11, 2013 by welshbairn

[EdgarusQPFC]

You were meant to be showing something I was backtracking from like you claimed.

Give it a rest will you? You were wrong to say what you did, accept it.

[NotThePars]

Not forgetting the absolute brass neck to try and force some shitty point about his football team in.

[EdgarusQPFC]

Not forgetting the absolute brass neck to try and force some shitty point about his football team in.

It was pretty pathetic

[Guest The Phoenix]

So you've decided your speculation on the cause of the crash is fine but mine is clearly wrong. This despite me giving pretty decent reasons why I'm better placed to speculate than most, and it seems you thinking this isn't even based on anything to do with the crash but rather my political opinion on whether police officers should automatically get a state subsidised funeral?

spec·u·late (spky-lt)

v. spec·u·lat·ed, spec·u·lat·ing, spec·u·lates

v.intr.

1. To engage in a course of reasoning often based on inconclusive evidence.

Finally Jock gets something bang on.

[thisal]

So you've decided your speculation on the cause of the crash is fine but mine is clearly wrong. This despite me giving pretty decent reasons why I'm better placed to speculate than most, and it seems you thinking this isn't even based on anything to do with the crash but rather my political opinion on whether police officers should automatically get a state subsidised funeral?

You're not any better placed than me. I've got Google as well wido

[jock001]

It's not though, it really isn't - It's way down the priority list when something like this happens,

This is from the site linked to earlier:

THE FORCED LANDING:

ENTRY:

1. Lower collective.

2. Right Pedal.

3. Aft cyclic.

DESCENT:

1. Check:

- Rotor RPM

- Airspeed

- Balance

2. Select a suitable landing area considering the wind.

3. Set up type of auto to make landing area.

4. Mayday call.

5. Transponder 7700.

6. Passenger brief.

7. If time permits -consider the possibility of restart

-if restart not possible turn off : Fuel Cock

Master switch

Alternator.

Oh look - it's way down below trying to fly the thing !

Consider yourself corrected.

I think human factors are quite high up the list now but only because transmission issues were not found during the initial inspection (although something might yet be found during more in depth inspections of course !) as always I'll speculate on what we are being told.

You on the other hand simply stated from the beginning that pilot error was most likely because of the lack of a mayday call ...

Let's take another look:

ENTRY:

1. Lower collective.

2. Right Pedal.

3. Aft cyclic.

DESCENT:

1. Check:

- Rotor RPM

- Airspeed

- Balance

2. Select a suitable landing area considering the wind.

3. Set up type of auto to make landing area.

4. Mayday call.

5. Transponder 7700.

6. Passenger brief.

7. If time permits -consider the possibility of restart

-if restart not possible turn off : Fuel Cock

Master switch

Alternator.

I just checked and I did indeed ask you, the guy who claimed to be an aeronautical engineer to confirm whether the rotors would need to be going to send an aircraft end over end rather than state it couldn't happen. You avoided the question.

So why put the effort into pretending I made a definative statement?

I've also said I still can't see any way for a helicopter to go end over end from low altitude unless the blades are going. You avoided that point having previously claimed the action of it falling out of the air would have done it.

AS for my being suspicious of there being no mayday, there are many reports of the aircraft sounding like it was in trouble before the crash. This suggests the lack of mayday wasn't due to time constraints. More likely there was another reason the pilot was unable or unwilling to make the radio call.

[MONKMAN]

 

I know I'm going to regret this, but what are they? The reasons why you're better placed to speculate, that is..

Probably in the air cadets or some pish.

[Fuctifano]

More likely there was another reason the pilot was unable or unwilling to make the radio call.

Such as?

[jock001]

Jock001 - Have a bit of fucking tact. Who knows how many relatives or close friends of the pilot could be reading this. At least let the pilot have some dignity in his death before posting your ill-timed insensitive conspiracy theory shite after barely any time has passed since the accident. You septic c**t.

Might I suggest I've displayed a helluva lot more tact in this thread than you just did.

I'm not making any conclusions, just trying to objectively look at what might have happened. I'm not trying to blame anyone. In fact if the official investigation rules pilot error I'll still not be trying to blame anyone.

People can make mistakes. All people, no matter how qualified or experienced. If the accident investigation rules mechanical failure on part of the aircraft they haven't tested yet, that will still only be what they judged the proximate cause in a chain of events which in some parts will be human beings who could have done something better.

This has been true of every major accident in history.

[EdgarusQPFC]

I just checked and I did indeed ask you, the guy who claimed to be an aeronautical engineer to confirm whether the rotors would need to be going to send an aircraft end over end rather than state it couldn't happen. You avoided the question.

So why put the effort into pretending I made a definative statement?

I've also said I still can't see any way for a helicopter to go end over end from low altitude unless the blades are going. You avoided that point having previously claimed the action of it falling out of the air would have done it.

AS for my being suspicious of there being no mayday, there are many reports of the aircraft sounding like it was in trouble before the crash. This suggests the lack of mayday wasn't due to time constraints. More likely there was another reason the pilot was unable or unwilling to make the radio call.

And what about the pilot's funeral? Or bringing Rangers tax problems into this?

[jock001]

Give it a rest will you? You were wrong to say what you did, accept it.

No.

I'll decide for myself what I think is right and wrong thanks.

[jock001]

And what about the pilot's funeral? Or bringing Rangers tax problems into this?

What about the pilots funeral? I didn't think he should get special treatment.

AS for me mentioning Rangers, it was in response to a poster who has repeatedly taken issue with Rangers tax issues who suddenly appeared not to care any longer about where tax came from or how it was spent and who apparently just came onto this thread to abuse me.

Now if you have a wee look through the thread you'll see that I've only brought up Rangers once in this thread until this post and not once have I abused anyone who hasn't already abused me first.

So you can say I'm wrong all you want. Until someone can show me a valid reason why, I'm not going to believe you.

[AberdeenBud]

Keep on digging jock, I mean it's not as if anyone already thinks you've made a monumental c**t of yourself here.