VincentGuerin Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Nobody is showering Milne with praise. I think the initial response was to him being referred to as a drain on the club. Not a fair accusation to level at him as for all his failings he did a hell of a lot in keeping our heads above water when things were desperate for just about everyone. And he did care about the club. Lucky re relegation is just a cheap one, clubs suffer luck and bad luck as a result of circumstances all the time in football. Hearts were ‘unlucky’ in their most recent relegation but it matters not. They were relegated. The post I replied to mentioned as a defence of Milne's record Aberdeen's avoidance of administration and relegation on his watch. It's quite reasonable to point out that both of these can be put down to Act of God stuff. You're right that that's just the way it goes. But it's also right that neither of those arguments are accurate representations of Milne's tenure. Had the money to clear the debt not landed on his lap from an outside source, I feel your view on him today would be wildly different. Would James Anderson turning up in 2004 have made the Pieman a success (or even just less bad?)? I'd argue no. That's the way it goes sometimes. Edited January 9 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 35 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: Only because you lucked out with someone happy to bail you out. Aberdeen were in the same boat as the clubs you mention. Milne's tenure should have included a relegation in 2000 and could well have included an administration. He got jammy twice. Giving him credit for avoiding relegation and administration is like giving Rishi Sunak credit for cutting inflation. We didn’t need our debt paid off to survive. It’s brilliant that it was paid off as it lets us use money for more productive things. But it’s disingenuous to call it a bailout. I wasn’t suggesting that Milne deserves praise for his running of the club , just less hate. 25 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: You finished bottom of the league; you deserved relegation. We'll never know whether you'd have got what you deserved. Milne was a lucky guy who only escaped being known as the guy who ran Aberdeen into the ground (and the second tier) due to a couple of fortunate events. Had Hearts had someone prepared to pay off our debts in the early 2000s, it's likely neither of our subsequent relegations would have happened either. A James Anderson figure, if you will. Milne caught a huge break. A lot of folk seem to forget that. Who paid our debts in the early 00s? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 2 minutes ago, coprolite said: We didn’t need our debt paid off to survive. It’s brilliant that it was paid off as it lets us use money for more productive things. But it’s disingenuous to call it a bailout. I wasn’t suggesting that Milne deserves praise for his running of the club , just less hate. Who paid our debts in the early 00s? I was referring to Hearts. As mentioned above, if we'd had our debts cleared out of the blue, we'd not have been vulnerable to Romanov and all that went with it. Aberdeen were mired in deby in 2014, with a stadium that is a financial black hole. Your assertion that Aberdeen would just have beem fine without the deby being cleared is a bold one. Edited January 9 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: The post I replied to mentioned as a defence of Milne's record Aberdeen's avoidance of administration and relegation on his watch. It's quite reasonable to point out that both of these can be put down to Act of God stuff. You're right that that's just the way it goes. But it's also right that neither of those arguments are accurate representations of Milne's tenure. Had the money to clear the debt not landed on his lap from an outside source, I feel your view on him today would be wildly different. Would James Anderson turning up in 2004 have made the Pieman a success (or even just less bad?)? I'd argue no. That's the way it goes sometimes. The ‘bailout’ I.e. paying off the debt, occurred while mcinnes was in charge and there was no imminent threat to the club. It was just a millstone off the back. Milne had helped the club service the debt for years. But he does have to take his share of blame for building the debt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afc_blockhead Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 19 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: What a poor post. Good day to you. The truth clearly hurts. You can't dispute any of it. Nicely deflected. Remember you don't care about football anymore ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Just now, afc_blockhead said: The truth clearly hurts. You can't dispute any of it. Nicely deflected. Remember you don't care about football anymore ... Mate. I've given you time. But you're boring. The same reply to every post is dull. You offer nothing to any discussion. You're my first ever poster to be put on ignore. May God go with you, my friend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I'm sorry, when were we close to admin? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1GregStewart Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Hertz fans not handling it well that they are in fact a yo-yo club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarapoa Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 The Donalds contribution was welcome and generous, but we were also helped by the banks being open to take a fraction of the overall debt for a cash settlement due to so much football debt across the country being regarded as likely bad debt. From those ITK, I hear it was around £3-4M. It wasn't a bailout - but it certainly helped us klondyke the 'best of the rest' mantle for several seasons in a row. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said: I'm sorry, when were we close to admin? 2014 apparently, after we'd weathered Setanta collapsing, the credit crunch and the worst recession since the depression, started making an operating profit and significantly increased turnover. Dark times. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 27 minutes ago, tarapoa said: The Donalds contribution was welcome and generous, but we were also helped by the banks being open to take a fraction of the overall debt for a cash settlement due to so much football debt across the country being regarded as likely bad debt. From those ITK, I hear it was around £3-4M. It wasn't a bailout - but it certainly helped us klondyke the 'best of the rest' mantle for several seasons in a row. I don't think the exact terms of the deal were ever made public but what's in the public domain is that the Donalds bought ~£9.5m of debt from BoS for an undisclosed sum, released £6.5m and got £3.5m in shares (presumably worth far less). That's consistent with the Donalds paying £3.5m for the debt, and effectively getting shares for what they put in. At the same time SMG capitalised loans of £4.4m. It's not exactly Milne putting his hand in his pocket but it's a transfer of value out of a company he owns. 1 hour ago, afc_blockhead said: Hearts fans are hilarious. Nearly went bust (same as your Sevconian cousins) due to years of proper cheating. James Anderson (the massive Jambo.. apparently) didn't even get involved when you were going bust post Romanov. You screwed over creditors. We paid ours properly. As for relegations. You've had plenty of them. You have had more seasons in the Championship than finishing above Aberdeen in the past decade. Outwith your Romanov cheating years you have won 1 trophy since 1963. That is your level. You can try deflect with nonsense about us being "bailed out" (i.e. paying off debts) / "deserved relegation") it's all just bollocks Apart from the fact relegation was not happening for finishing bottom (decided pre that season starting) we also knew months before the end of the season we wouldn't be in a play off so started playing youngsters instead. For someone who was banging on about not caring about football anymore not so long ago the anger and seeth you have for Aberdeen / Hibs and other teams is very funny There's a lot to like about this post but the bolded bit is not accurate. As above, we didn't pay any of our debt "properly". We "paid" our bank debt of £9.5 m with £3.5m of worthless shares and got let off the rest. We "paid" SMG in full, but also with worthless shares. We've probably paid our staff, incuding players, and suppliers though. I've no sympathy for BoS being out of pocket. The main difference between a negotiated settlement and admin is that we stayed in control of the situation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thenorthernlight Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, VincentGuerin said: Only because you lucked out with someone happy to bail you out. Aberdeen were in the same boat as the clubs you mention. Milne's tenure should have included a relegation in 2000 and could well have included an administration. He got jammy twice. Giving him credit for avoiding relegation and administration is like giving Rishi Sunak credit for cutting inflation. “Relegation” Maybe you should try again? This time with facts, not some peddled myth? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afc_blockhead Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 5 minutes ago, Thenorthernlight said: “Relegation” Maybe you should try again? This time with facts, not some peddled myth? He is a strange man. He floods this board with his mix of trolling and stupidity. Even his own supporters think he's a prat 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDONisSheep Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, DukDukGoose said: I'm sorry, when were we close to admin? This is a tale I've told on here many times. Back in 2000/2001 (?). I spoke to Dave Cormack (yes that Dave Cormack). I was moaning about David Rowson going to Stoke. Dayta-Dave explained that we'd been put on a very short leash by the banks and that we had to take immediate steps to a) Get back within a previously agreed debt/equity ratio (If I remember rightly oor-Wiggy stumped up circa £3m from a rights issue around that time) [This was in addition to the 1995 share issue]. b) Take immediate steps to cut our recurring losses and cash drain (I think we were losing between £1.5 & £3m p.a. but I might be wrong) This was all before we stopped being publicly listed. As a side note, one of the weird things AFC had to (as a listed company) was to make a public statement denying the rumour that Fergie was about to be recruited. I don't think people really appreciated at the time, how close we came to 'doing an Old-Rangers'. Yours aDONis Edited January 9 by aDONisSheep 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afc_blockhead Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said: Mate. I've given you time. But you're boring. The same reply to every post is dull. You offer nothing to any discussion. You're my first ever poster to be put on ignore. May God go with you, my friend. Again, fantastic comeback to the points within my post. I know you can't actually refute any of the facts but you usually try. I have never seen you respond to any poster on here who questions your bullshit with any intelligence or success in arguing the point. As I said you spend your days on here being angry at Aberdeen / Hibs / Dundee / St Mirren and god knows who else. Yet, you like to say how much you don't care about football. I suggest deleting your account and maybe continue to let your long suffering friends (if you have any) hear your repeated shite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 hours ago, 1GregStewart said: Hertz fans not handling it well that they are in fact a yo-yo club. Well, one Hearts fan in particular... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, aDONisSheep said: This is a tale I've told on here many times. Back in 2000/2001 (?). I spoke to Dave Cormack (yes that Dave Cormack). I was moaning about David Rowson going to Stoke. Dayta-Dave explained that we'd been put on a very short leash by the banks and that we had to take immediate steps to a) Get back within a previously agreed debt/equity ratio (If I remember rightly oor-Wiggy stumped up circa £3m from a rights issue around that time) [This was in addition to the 1995 share issue]. b) Take immediate steps to cut our recurring losses and cash drain (I think we were losing between £1.5 & £3m p.a. but I might be wrong) This was all before we stopped being publicly listed. As a side note, one of the weird things AFC had to (as a listed company) was to make a public statement denying the rumour that Fergie was about to be recruited. I don't think people really appreciated at the time, how close we came to 'doing an Old-Rangers'. Yours aDONis Yeah I'm aware we were struggling in the early 2000's but we cut out cloth, played youngsters (who at times weren't near the standard) and recruited from the old League One. As far as I'm aware, nobody chucked money in to keep us going. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasda2 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) I’m not actually sure how it’s a problem that someone “chucked money” at us anyway. Is it not basically the job of club owners to chuck money or, even better, get someone else to. Basically that’s the difference between dealing with financial hits or failing to do so and in extreme mismanagement cases going into admin. Edited January 9 by fasda2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betting competition Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 5 hours ago, aDONisSheep said: This is a tale I've told on here many times. Back in 2000/2001 (?). I spoke to Dave Cormack (yes that Dave Cormack). I was moaning about David Rowson going to Stoke. Dayta-Dave explained that we'd been put on a very short leash by the banks and that we had to take immediate steps to a) Get back within a previously agreed debt/equity ratio (If I remember rightly oor-Wiggy stumped up circa £3m from a rights issue around that time) [This was in addition to the 1995 share issue]. b) Take immediate steps to cut our recurring losses and cash drain (I think we were losing between £1.5 & £3m p.a. but I might be wrong) This was all before we stopped being publicly listed. As a side note, one of the weird things AFC had to (as a listed company) was to make a public statement denying the rumour that Fergie was about to be recruited. I don't think people really appreciated at the time, how close we came to 'doing an Old-Rangers'. Yours aDONis In 2001, Aberdeen witnessed a significant transformation as Keith Burkinshaw stepped down from the position of Executive Director of Football to assume the role of a non-executive director. Jim Cummings attempted to unseat Stewart Milne but was unsuccessful, leading to his resignation in March. Cormark also resigned in July, and Keith Wyness was appointed as the Chief Executive. It is believed that Rowson departed for Stoke City on a free transfer, and his wages were likely not excessively high. As of 2001, our debt situation was not as severe as it would become in the subsequent years. In fact, the club faced substantial losses in the following years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 8 hours ago, VincentGuerin said: Only because you lucked out with someone happy to bail you out. Aberdeen were in the same boat as the clubs you mention. Milne's tenure should have included a relegation in 2000 and could well have included an administration. He got jammy twice. Giving him credit for avoiding relegation and administration is like giving Rishi Sunak credit for cutting inflation. Wow, he’s off on one again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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