FAO No Voters

[Blaven]

There is no depth to any independance arguments. Oil which so many seem to hang their tartan coloured bunnets on so often, is a non starter. We have already extracted the easy stuff, and have extracted more than half of the supply. Exponential growth tells us it will not last a generation, lucky if it is a decade. On the flip side we will have to negotiate our own contracts to bring in fuel. Economies of scale means we will be paying more for fuel at the pump than ever before.

Living costs in Scotland will rise, as we have to re-negotiate trade prices and will pay more for shipping costs and as already said lose that economy of scale. Whereas income will stagnate and unemployment will rise in the uncertain years as many companies south of the border depart our already depleted high streets. The loss of this money on a local scale from these rates will kick our local councils hard. The already top heavy councils left from the last Labour government.

We will be forced to sell many services to the private sector, who will then exert their own 'control'.

The idea of allowing any government the power the scottish government will have over the people in the interim period is a scary prospect.

Independance is a gamble on a 3 legged horse with a fat bugger like Salmond as the jockey.

Is this the best you can do?

Even HB will be embarrassed by this post.

[strichener]

There is no depth to any independance arguments. Oil which so many seem to hang their tartan coloured bunnets on so often, is a non starter. We have already extracted the easy stuff, and have extracted more than half of the supply. Exponential growth tells us it will not last a generation, lucky if it is a decade. On the flip side we will have to negotiate our own contracts to bring in fuel. Economies of scale means we will be paying more for fuel at the pump than ever before.

Living costs in Scotland will rise, as we have to re-negotiate trade prices and will pay more for shipping costs and as already said lose that economy of scale. Whereas income will stagnate and unemployment will rise in the uncertain years as many companies south of the border depart our already depleted high streets. The loss of this money on a local scale from these rates will kick our local councils hard. The already top heavy councils left from the last Labour government.

We will be forced to sell many services to the private sector, who will then exert their own 'control'.

The idea of allowing any government the power the scottish government will have over the people in the interim period is a scary prospect.

Independance is a gamble on a 3 legged horse with a fat bugger like Salmond as the jockey.

Just to summarise this, we don't want elected officials to run the country and we don't want private sector companies to provide services. Just so I can get this clear in my mind, who should have this "control"?

[1320Lichtie]

There is no depth to any independance arguments. Oil which so many seem to hang their tartan coloured bunnets on so often, is a non starter. We have already extracted the easy stuff, and have extracted more than half of the supply. Exponential growth tells us it will not last a generation, lucky if it is a decade. On the flip side we will have to negotiate our own contracts to bring in fuel. Economies of scale means we will be paying more for fuel at the pump than ever before.

Living costs in Scotland will rise, as we have to re-negotiate trade prices and will pay more for shipping costs and as already said lose that economy of scale. Whereas income will stagnate and unemployment will rise in the uncertain years as many companies south of the border depart our already depleted high streets. The loss of this money on a local scale from these rates will kick our local councils hard. The already top heavy councils left from the last Labour government.

We will be forced to sell many services to the private sector, who will then exert their own 'control'.

The idea of allowing any government the power the scottish government will have over the people in the interim period is a scary prospect.

Independance is a gamble on a 3 legged horse with a fat bugger like Salmond as the jockey.

WE ARE DOOOOOOOOMEDDDDDD!!!!!

Ps.. :lol:

[Blaven]

Really cheap booze.

FFS.

What?

How would you cope if the drinks industry started acting like the power industry

[renton]

WE ARE DOOOOOOOOMEDDDDDD!!!!!

Ps.. :lol:

It's a classic....

"Tartan coloured bunnets"

Scottish cringe style stereotyping aside, what exactly, is Tartan coloured? Some kind of weird smudgy brown effect from mixing all those green, blacks and reds?

[MotownClic]

.... is this a debate? there is no debate simple because there is no answer to to the questions anyone raises. Its lost in preamble of falsities. Half the responses depend on the rest of the union helping us out once we have split from them? really how does that work? if i quit my job do i then go around expecting my ex employer to go and help me out for however long, even after i stood up and told him i disliked him?.... hmm i think not. Jumping ship from a union that contains one of the hubs for world finance, that we do very well out of, is utterly ludicrous.

You're not doing very well out of it, if you're on £6.33 an hour

[Confidemus]

There is no depth to any independance arguments. Oil which so many seem to hang their tartan coloured bunnets on so often, is a non starter. We have already extracted the easy stuff, and have extracted more than half of the supply. Exponential growth tells us it will not last a generation, lucky if it is a decade. On the flip side we will have to negotiate our own contracts to bring in fuel. Economies of scale means we will be paying more for fuel at the pump than ever before.

Living costs in Scotland will rise, as we have to re-negotiate trade prices and will pay more for shipping costs and as already said lose that economy of scale. Whereas income will stagnate and unemployment will rise in the uncertain years as many companies south of the border depart our already depleted high streets. The loss of this money on a local scale from these rates will kick our local councils hard. The already top heavy councils left from the last Labour government.

We will be forced to sell many services to the private sector, who will then exert their own 'control'.

The idea of allowing any government the power the scottish government will have over the people in the interim period is a scary prospect.

Independance is a gamble on a 3 legged horse with a fat bugger like Salmond as the jockey.

You make Mr Bairn seem reasonable and calm.

You know your jacket's on a shookly peg when you enter into the realms of abject failure by the time you're into your second sentence, as above....

[Confidemus]

[Vacamion]

Certainly. Happy to help.

If you can copy and paste stuff from Scottish Nationalist websites, we can do likewise from BT.

There are more reasons why our Union is the best choice for Scotland here:

http://bettertogether.net/the-facts

Enjoy

[Baxter Parp]

Certainly. Happy to help.

If you can copy and paste stuff from Scottish Nationalist websites, we can do likewise from BT.

There are more reasons why our Union is the best choice for Scotland here:

http://bettertogether.net/the-facts

Enjoy

That's just a fact that will continue to be true after independence, try again.

[Vacamion]

That's just a fact that will continue to be true after independence, try again.

Merely your assertion. So no need to try again.

All other things being equal, why would companies in the rUK choose to do business with what would have become a foreign country over business with their "own" economic area?

There would be some knock on effect on busness (and therefore jobs) in Scotland.

Only the Union guarantees a shared currency and a shared economic area.

[Blaven]

Merely your assertion. So no need to try again.

All other things being equal, why would companies in the rUK choose to do business with what would have become a foreign country over business with their "own" economic area?

There would be some knock on effect on busness (and therefore jobs) in Scotland.

Only the Union guarantees a shared currency and a shared economic area.

^^^^^ has to be one of the dumbest ever.

Project idiot.

[Confidemus]

Merely your assertion. So no need to try again.

All other things being equal, why would companies in the rUK choose to do business with what would have become a foreign country over business with their "own" economic area?

There would be some knock on effect on busness (and therefore jobs) in Scotland.

Only the Union guarantees a shared currency and a shared economic area.

Still with the "foreigners are bad" thing?

Scotland would be richer than rUK, so not really a knock on effect. I think we'll do not only fine, but better than rUK. Still not seeing ONE positive reason for voting No.

All the evidence demonstrates that Scotland is a wealthy nation. Scotland would be the 14th wealthiest nation in the developed world by GDP per head of population. Scotland’s wealth is also built on solid financial foundations, a diverse economy and substantial economic potential in new industries such as biotechnology and renewables, as well as current key sectors like food and drink, tourism and oil and gas

Voting for independence – to have control over taxation, regulation and global promotion – will give the Scottish government the tools to create greater opportunities for growth and a better business climate for Scottish business. In short, a Yes vote will improve Scotland’s economy. This will make people in Scotland financially better off.

Here are 10 key economic facts for why Scotland will be a wealthy independent nation.

1) Scotland has a rich and diverse economy

Scotland’s economy includes £21.4 billion in construction which employs 170,000 people, £11.6 billion in tourism which supports 292,000 jobs, £39 billion yearly turnover in manufacturing with a value added of £12.7 billion and 127,000 people employed. Scotland also has world leading expertise in life science, world class universities (5 in the world’s top 200), a multi-billion pound creative sector and vast energy (oil, gas, tidal, wave, wind and solar), fishing and agricultural resources.

Source: Page 87 in Scotland’s Future

In a broad context it is already clear that Scotland has vast economic wealth in resources, talent and business ingenuity.

2) Scotland is a net contributor to the UK

Last year Scotland provided £800 more in tax per person that the UK average. This means Scotland would have been £8.3 billion better off as an independent country over the past 5 years. We could have spent that money investing in our economy with the same debt levels as the rest of the UK or saved it and had £8.3 billion less debt.

3) Scotland generates far more tax than the UK average

Scotland generated £800 more in tax per person than the UK as a whole in 2012-13. Scotland has generated more tax per head than the UK every year for the past 33 years. The graph below is for a shorter time period but produced by the UK Government. Even in the years where oil prices were lowest, Scotland tax generation was always been considerably higher than the UK average and England in particular.

Source: Government Expenditure and Revenue Reports 1999-2011

4) Westminster has cost Scotland £64 billion in the past 30 years

Scotland has paid £64 billion in UK debt interest that Scotland didn’t need. An independent Scotland would have been far better off economically. This was reported recently in the Sunday Times after bespoke Business for Scotland research showed that Scotland has been subsidising the failings of Westminster economic mismanagement.

Source: Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland figures with Scotland based borrowing

5) Scotland has a lower deficit and lower public spending than the UK

Over the past 5 years Scotland had lower deficits than the UK. Scotland’s average deficit has been 7.2%, while the UK deficit has been 8.4%. Scotland only spends 42.7% of Scotland’s GDP on public spending. The UK spends 45.4%. (also over the past 5 years) This demonstrates that Scotland’s public finances are in a stronger position than the UK as a whole.

6) Scotland has strong exports

Scotland’s top export markets are USA, Netherlands, France and Germany, which are worth a combined total worth of £9.5 billion. (Table 9.1) Scottish whisky exports are valued at £4.27 billion last year. This is because Scotland exports 40 bottles every second! The food and drink market is key to Scotland’s exports across the world. Other key industries include chemical manufacturing, computer products, finance and insurance and other forms of equipment. (Table 9.1) With the powers of independence combining with the Scottish Government gaining direct control over international relations, there is a target to increase exports by 50%, which would create over 100,000 new jobs.

7) Scotland’s oil fields remain a massive financial asset

The oil in the North Sea is worth over £1 trillion. There are at least 15-24 billion barrels of oil remaining which will continue long into the 21st century. Over 90% of the tax revenue will go to an independent Scotland which can help to establish a national oil fund for future investment. Recently, Business for Scotland explained the potential for a West coast oil boom that is currently blocked by Westminster. Independence could revitalise the economies of Ayrshire and the Strathclyde region as a whole. Most oil price forecasts are upward, with one of the exceptions being the UK Government’s OBR which has a political motivation to underestimate oil revenue.

Scotland has huge potential in renewable energy

Scotland has 25% of Europe’s total tidal energy potential, 25% of total wind energy potential and 10% of total wave energy potential. This has the power to reindustrialise Scotland bringing more jobs and greater prosperity. Key examples include the Pentland Firth – the Saudi Arabia of renewable tidal energy – and the Moray Firth - a substantial offshore wind energy project. Small scale and often community owned renewable projects also have huge potential to provide low cost energy to revitalise Scotland’s rural communities.

Source: Hardisty, J., 2006. Analysis of Resontant Buoys for Wave Energy Conversion in UK Waters. University of Hull.

Source: UK Energy Research Centre

9) Scotland is one of the top UK locations for inward investment

Inward investment into Scotland’s economy has hit a 15 year high. Last year Ernst & Young ranked Scotland as the most popular UK destination for global investment outside of London. Scotland secured 11% of all UK Foreign and Direct Investment despite being only 8.4% of the UK population. The report confirmed that far from uncertainty over Scotland referendum causing a slow down in inward investment that “it seemed to have the opposite effect”. A combination of tax incentives combined with a raft of other economic measures such as significant government investment in fast growing sectors should ensure FDI continues to be a strong contributor to Scotland’s economy. Indeed evidence suggests that newly independent nations enjoy significantly increased FDI.

10) An independent Scotland can support Scottish business in tax, regulation, the labour market, innovation and global exports

An independent Scotland will prioritise the interests of business in Scotland following decades of Westminster prioritising London and the South East. This includes the opportunity to create a simpler tax system that supports Scottish business; reforming the labour market to improve employer/employee relations; encouraging migration to Scotland to balance Scotland’s unique demographic needs; and supporting Scottish exports globally through a Scottish diplomatic and trade service. The opportunities of independence are vast and long-term.

[Blaven]

Merely your assertion. So no need to try again.

All other things being equal, why would companies in the rUK choose to do business with what would have become a foreign country over business with their "own" economic area?

There would be some knock on effect on busness (and therefore jobs) in Scotland.

Only the Union guarantees a shared currency and a shared economic area.

^^^thinks it's business that dictates the market and not the consumer.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Both sides are stupid when it comes to the effect on business.

Despite the bluster from Yes some businesses would choose to move HQs and operations out of iScotland. Equally, No are very wrong in that there would be businesses that would want to move to iScotland, particularly if there were a different tax regime.

Has there been any realistic study done?

And I am not talking about back of fag packet calculations from an H_B or Wings source.

[Confidemus]

Both sides are stupid when it comes to the effect on business.

Despite the bluster from Yes some businesses would choose to move HQs and operations out of iScotland. Equally, No are very wrong in that there would be businesses that would want to move to iScotland, particularly if there were a different tax regime.

Has there been any realistic study done?

And I am not talking about back of fag packet calculations from an H_B or Wings source.

Nicely balanced viewpoint there. Pleasing.

[Baxter Parp]

Both sides are stupid when it comes to the effect on business.

Despite the bluster from Yes some businesses would choose to move HQs and operations out of iScotland. Equally, No are very wrong in that there would be businesses that would want to move to iScotland, particularly if there were a different tax regime.

Has there been any realistic study done?

And I am not talking about back of fag packet calculations from an H_B or Wings source.

Which businesses would move and i'll need evidence, ta.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

A poll from Survation.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2576424/Scottish-firms-prepare-vote-exclusive-poll-reveals-giants-worth-billions-verge-fleeing.html

In a poll of 100 top Scottish businesses almost a third said they would consider relocation of operations.

Obviously, the key word there is "consider" - some might well choose to stay, others choose to go - clearly the Mail reporter thinks all but that's to be expected.

I'd suspect it would vary from industry depending on specific effects of policies. I think its a strong likelyhoood that some major financial institutions will at the very least be forced to move their HQs (not necessarily all of their operations) due to the EU directive.

[Confidemus]

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2576424/Scottish-firms-prepare-vote-exclusive-poll-reveals-giants-worth-billions-verge-fleeing.html

In a poll of 100 top Scottish businesses almost a third said they would consider relocation of operations.

Obviously, the key word there is "consider" - some might well choose to stay, others choose to go - clearly the Mail reporter thinks all but that's to be expected.

I'd suspect it would vary from industry depending on specific effects of policies. I think its a strong likelyhoood that some major financial institutions will at the very least be forced to move their HQs (not necessarily all of their operations) due to the EU directive.

Note the key word "consider". Over 70% of those businesses polled said they also felt that EU membership was "important" or "very important". Something to ponder on.

But what about new Scottish business? You don't hear much about them do you?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-26171214

[Baxter Parp]

A poll from Survation.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2576424/Scottish-firms-prepare-vote-exclusive-poll-reveals-giants-worth-billions-verge-fleeing.html

In a poll of 100 top Scottish businesses almost a third said they would consider relocation of operations.

Obviously, the key word there is "consider" - some might well choose to stay, others choose to go - clearly the Mail reporter thinks all but that's to be expected.

I'd suspect it would vary from industry depending on specific effects of policies. I think its a strong likelyhoood that some major financial institutions will at the very least be forced to move their HQs (not necessarily all of their operations) due to the EU directive.

So none then, cheers.