Blaven Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 A fair question and for me I would say it comes down to the power of what you have to bargain with Westminster could play hardball either way but we would have more to bargain with in the event of a Yes vote. In the event of a No vote Scotland will have lost it's only major bargaining chip (The threat to leave) putting us 100% reliant on the good will of Westminster who could give us more powers (Token only) lets be honest Devo Max is not even being offered so never will in the event of a No so they give us a few useless powers to shut us up or they go the other route and put Scotland to the sword (politically) taking powers away to ensure we cannot come this close to independence again, many fear this as they are old enough to remember the 1979 referendum and the broken promises that followed and the years of Thatcher dismantling our industry. Either way we are not in control and Westminster will do what ever they please and there is little we can do about it. In the event of a Yes vote you are correct that Westminster could refuse everything but we have things we can bargain with and they are unlikely to want a hostile neighbour and neither would we want one. While they could refuse everything and have a messy divorce you have to realise that they don't hold all the cards after a Yes vote and refusing to work with us on everything would be in no ones interest. Yes there are things they might refuse possibly the currency Union as has been pointed out they might struggle to reverse on that as they have played hard ball but it would be crazy for the rUK to not work with iScotland at all. rUK does not generate enough electricity so would need our assistance or face black outs, they have no place to keep Trident so would need to negotiate a period of removal, they lack military training areas and bombing ranges as many are in Scotland, We are a major trading partner to them the list goes on and is the same for both sides, this like any divorce would be a two way street and it would be in both countries interest to bargain and remain friends rather than fight and hate each other. While a normal divorce might end badly and both parties walk away and never speak again we will have to live next door to each other and like Republic of Ireland it is in their interest to have a friendly neighbour. Either way the vote goes Westminster could refuse to cooperate but only with a Yes vote will Scotland have any leverage against Westminster. Add to that the RUKs standing in Europe and the rest of the world. They would be alot weaker if they had a neighbouring country that they had bad relations with. Much better for them to have a freind and ally than an enemy and foe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Okay Yessites here's my question of the day: Is Scottish Independence a means or an end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Okay Yessites here's my question of the day: Is Scottish Independence a means or an end? Absolutely a means. The end is a fairer and more just society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Okay Yessites here's my question of the day: Is Scottish Independence a means or an end? It's progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Okay Yessites here's my question of the day: Is Scottish Independence a means or an end? Don't quite get your question. Since a means to an end is an action carried out for the sole purpose of a conclusion, the referendum debate is the means to the end of Independence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Don't quite get your question. Since a means to an end is an action carried out for the sole purpose of a conclusion, the referendum debate is the means to the end of Independence? Quite simple really. Do you view independence as a way to achieve something (a means) or do you view independence as the achievement in itself (an end)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilky1878 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Hi folks, hope you're all well I have a bit of a question for you this morning. Why is it that you all seem to think that after a No vote, Westminster is going to come down hard on Scotland, yet after a yes vote they'll all be best pals with us and help us out in a lot of areas? It's a genuine non-trolling question and I appreciate you may have an answer, not a rhetorical question by any means, but it kinda sees to be like we'd be relying on a lot of goodwill by the rUK government to help us find our feet after independence and you all seem to think that will definitely happen, yet if we vote No they're all going to turn in to some big anti-Scotland monsters and f**k over Scotland for the next generation. Not read the other replies so my points may have already been covered. I wasn't there at the time but from what I have heard and read after a no vote in the Thatcher era after a No vote they did this. Also I heard there was meant to be more devolution like they are promising now and it never happened. I obviously don't know from experience so I may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Quite simple really. Do you view independence as a way to achieve something (a means) or do you view independence as the achievement in itself (an end)? Absolutely a means. It's a cliche but it's most definitely the start of a journey. We can build a future Scotland for future generation. Independence is only the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Okay Yessites here's my question of the day: Is Scottish Independence a means or an end? It's a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Is Scottish Independence a means or an end? It's an end to colonial rule. It's a means to a fairer future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Okay Yessites here's my question of the day: Is Scottish Independence a means or an end? Did you get a response from AdLib on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scothmist Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Hi folks, hope you're all well I have a bit of a question for you this morning. Why is it that you all seem to think that after a No vote, Westminster is going to come down hard on Scotland, yet after a yes vote they'll all be best pals with us and help us out in a lot of areas? It's a genuine non-trolling question and I appreciate you may have an answer, not a rhetorical question by any means, but it kinda sees to be like we'd be relying on a lot of goodwill by the rUK government to help us find our feet after independence and you all seem to think that will definitely happen, yet if we vote No they're all going to turn in to some big anti-Scotland monsters and f**k over Scotland for the next generation. Because it suits the separatists narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Because it suits the separatists narrative. Ah a No voter. Couple of questions if you will. 1) Why are we Better Together? 2) What powers are we GUARANTEED in the event of a No vote? No one from BTUKOKNOTHANKS or the swathes of spineless brain donors voting No has been able to answer these yet. Perhaps you can help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Ah a No voter. Couple of questions if you will. 1) Why are we Better Together? 2) What powers are we GUARANTEED in the event of a No vote? No one from BTUKOKNOTHANKS or the swathes of spineless brain donors voting No has been able to answer these yet. Perhaps you can help? They DEMAND an answer about currency. They get one so they DEMAND another. They get one. It's not what they want to hear, so they blank the answer and keep on DEMANDING another. How many times have you ASKED the above questions and how many answers have you had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 They DEMAND an answer about currency. They get one so they DEMAND another. They get one. It's not what they want to hear, so they blank the answer and keep on DEMANDING another. How many times have you ASKED the above questions and how many answers have you had? Must be a good couple of dozen mate. And not one answer has been forthcoming. It's pathetic, but thanks to the MSM's unbelievable bias and this "CURRENCY CURRENCY" pish, they're not brought to task on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scothmist Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Ah a No voter. Couple of questions if you will. 1) Why are we Better Together? 2) What powers are we GUARANTEED in the event of a No vote? No one from BTUKOKNOTHANKS or the swathes of spineless brain donors voting No has been able to answer these yet. Perhaps you can help? You tried this before. We are better together for many reasons. One simple reason is that there would be no risks that separation would expose Scotland to. We are guaranteed the same power we have just now. That is go enough for me, but the UK Government has already promised extra unnecessary powers. What's wrong with that? Another good reason is that staying together will infuriate you. Now give me all your fantastic well rehearsed empty rhetoric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 You tried this before. We are better together for many reasons. One simple reason is that there would be no risks that separation would expose Scotland to. We are guaranteed the same power we have just now. That is go enough for me, but the UK Government has already promised extra unnecessary powers. What's wrong with that? Another good reason is that staying together will infuriate you. Now give me all your fantastic well rehearsed empty rhetoric. What risks will Scotland be exposed to? No extra powers necessary? Is this the new better together promise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 You tried this before. We are better together for many reasons. One simple reason is that there would be no risks that separation would expose Scotland to. We are guaranteed the same power we have just now. That is go enough for me, but the UK Government has already promised extra unnecessary powers. What's wrong with that? Another good reason is that staying together will infuriate you. Now give me all your fantastic well rehearsed empty rhetoric. I, for one, am simply astounded that this is a pish alias. f**k off back under your rock, c**t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taza Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 The unionist argument in a nutshell ''Best of both worlds'' Does anyone actually know what this means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taza Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Here's won for the committed yes voters. Why don't you get out there and try to spread the message to the rest of the Scottish based human race, instead of spending hours going around in circles with elements of sub species like thepundit & the bairn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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