craigkillie Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 7 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: A good post. I think, though, that to say the SPL "went wrong" in keeping all the money for itself is to miss the point. That's precisely what it was for. Even if that was the original plan, it still went wrong in terms of there being no safety net for those clubs in the top flight who were relegated. That's one of the main reasons why so many clubs ended up in a pile of debt in the early and mid 2000s, and is why many of the SPL clubs were ultimately keen for reform when the opportunity arose. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 11 hours ago, craigkillie said: Even if that was the original plan, it still went wrong in terms of there being no safety net for those clubs in the top flight who were relegated. That's one of the main reasons why so many clubs ended up in a pile of debt in the early and mid 2000s, and is why many of the SPL clubs were ultimately keen for reform when the opportunity arose. Are you saying that clubs got into debt because they got relegated and struggled without a safety net, or are you saying that the threat of relegation and what it meant, was such that clubs got into debt trying to prevent it? Perhaps you're saying both. Which clubs would you identify as fitting into either category? I'm sure you're right, but the main examples that spring to my mind - Dundee, Motherwell etc - seem to me to have got into difficulty as a result of silly 'ambition' to climb high within the SPL. I'd see the needless ground criteria as more of a main reason for mounting debt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Are you saying that clubs got into debt because they got relegated and struggled without a safety net, or are you saying that the threat of relegation and what it meant, was such that clubs got into debt trying to prevent it? Perhaps you're saying both. Which clubs would you identify as fitting into either category? I'm sure you're right, but the main examples that spring to my mind - Dundee, Motherwell etc - seem to me to have got into difficulty as a result of silly 'ambition' to climb high within the SPL. I'd see the needless ground criteria as more of a main reason for mounting debt. Both, but mainly the latter. That ambition to climb up the league is also partly influenced by a desire to avoid being sucked down into the abyss. By the late 2000s it was clear that clubs were hugely concerned about that drop-off in income if you did go down, which was one of the main motiviations for the reconstruction plans since then. The ground criteria obviously didn't help some clubs, but that tended to more be those who were in the lower leagues at the time and had to try to upgrade - most of the clubs in the top flight already had already modernised and expanded during the mid 90s in the aftermath of Hillsborough (even though the Taylor Report didn't technically apply here) and also trying to keep up with what they had in England. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, craigkillie said: The ground criteria obviously didn't help some clubs, but that tended to more be those who were in the lower leagues at the time and had to try to upgrade Well indeed. That's pretty much my point though. The creation of the SPL was hugely damaging for those outside of it when the music stopped. That's largely because it was meant to be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 But my point was that it also ended up being damaging for those in the league too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 22 minutes ago, craigkillie said: But my point was that it also ended up being damaging for those in the league too. Yes, fair enough. The difference is though that for them, they were the makers of their own misfortune. You'll be right in identifying that fact as lying behind the reform (not mere re-branding) which followed. It certainly won't have been inspired by any altruism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarapoa Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 What a slavering muppet Peter Grant is. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Just now, tarapoa said: What a slavering muppet Peter Grant is. Something about Airdrie’s season being over, it’s more important for St Mirren, the league cup shouldn’t be before the league 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Aye that ramble from Peter Grant at the end of the St Mirren game was mind boggling. How do pundits that bad continue to get media work up here just because they played for the old firm decades ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 For a guy who had been involved in football for so long, Peter Grant genuinely has an awful grasp of it. He's an idiot and doesn't seem to 'get' football. This fool was involved with the Scotland squad remember. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 11 hours ago, Rodhull said: Aye that ramble from Peter Grant at the end of the St Mirren game was mind boggling. How do pundits that bad continue to get media work up here just because they played for the old firm decades ago. For that very reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Been enjoying the pre-season club previews. Amused to hear the lad that runs this site claim that we have some kind of big rivalry with St Mirren 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 20 hours ago, DA Baracus said: For a guy who had been involved in football for so long, Peter Grant genuinely has an awful grasp of it. He's an idiot and doesn't seem to 'get' football. This fool was involved with the Scotland squad remember. At least the boys would have been munching on plates of confidence at that time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spam_Valley Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 2 hours ago, VincentGuerin said: Been enjoying the pre-season club previews. Amused to hear the lad that runs this site claim that we have some kind of big rivalry with St Mirren He’s a fanny 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 2 hours ago, VincentGuerin said: Been enjoying the pre-season club previews. Amused to hear the lad that runs this site claim that we have some kind of big rivalry with St Mirren Your former, oddly revered, stadium announcer used to take great delight in announcing St Mirren defeats. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Your former, oddly revered, stadium announcer used to take great delight in announcing St Mirren defeats. Scott Wilson doesn't like St Mirren then? Great stuff. - ETA: Honestly hadn't noticed this. Been a regular at Tynecastle right through SW's time on the PA. Only features of his that ever registered were 'wee team' and 'make some noise'. I'd venture that anyone who thinks this is a 'thing' maybe spends too much time online. Such a weird thing to hear on the radio. Edited July 20, 2022 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin McCann Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 On 20/07/2022 at 21:23, craigkillie said: Your former, oddly revered, stadium announcer used to take great delight in announcing St Mirren defeats. Did he? Not something i ever noticed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 16 minutes ago, Austin McCann said: Did he? Not something i ever noticed. I'm a bit baffled by the claim. Is this something I've been ignoring at Tynecastle for years? Do we have an open anti-St Mirren agenda? Great stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 On 20/07/2022 at 21:23, craigkillie said: Your former, oddly revered, stadium announcer used to take great delight in announcing St Mirren defeats. Scott Wilson had a pretty good stint as stadium announcer, knew how to get the home fans going and played some decent tunes. How that makes him "oddly revered", I don't know. Extra kudos if he once rammed it up St Mirren. I don't recall it being a regular feature either. Quite an odd, pointless and negative post, really. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Fair play if he was popular with the Hearts fans, I thought he was a bit of an oddball a bit like our current guy. I was at a game several years back where he announced with great gusto that some team you were battling for Europe/top six with had lost, and then followed that up with "and even better" when announcing a heavy St Mirren defeat. It was one of the first things that made me aware of who the guy was and I've taken a keen interest in his nonsense ever since. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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