The Arbroath Thread

[lichtie23]

These folk continually saying they won’t be getting a season ticket until Jim is gone will come running back if we start the league campaign with 5 or 6 wins. 

Edited July 22 by lichtie23

[Lichtielegend]

I wonder if Scott Stewart as a centre-half is being seen as a long-term thing?

Wilkie and Bisland don't seem particularly attacking full-backs so playing them in a back 5 and using our best winger as a one of the centre-backs doesn't seem like something you would do unless it is part of a longer term plan.

 

 

 

[RedLichtie86]

17 minutes ago, lichtiekev said:

Pretty sure everyone understands you wouldn't want to risk players who weren't fully fit, but I just feel the squad should be in a much better position than it is just now, it was well known for a long time we would be in league 1 so surely we could of had a plan In place, it started so well with the signings of Gallagher and Reilly but went a bit backwards since, its harsh but we surely we should be aiming higher than Callaghan and Spalding, Are these 4 or 5 signings loans or are we buying player?

If we are writing off this cup as just warm up games and scores don't matter then don't charge £18, 

Totally agree with season tickets, be amazed if it gets up to 1000+                      Very poor timing posting for season tickers on socials this morning after Saturday, All the fans have done in last few years is back the club financially, it's time something was paid back on the pitch, all the excuses in the world doesn't warrant 14 defeats In a row,     

A matter of perspective is needed.

With relegation comes a drop in revenue and a drop in the playing budget. The difficult choice is how to spend that budget to build a squad to last the season. Do you spunk it now and rush to sign the full squad to appease the fans and give the impression that everything is perfect (Which can turn into a clusterfuck like when we had to make al those rushed signings in January) Or do you make some good signings now and wait and see what other players become available nearer the end of the transfer window. These can be players released from contracts early, Players still trying to sign for a FT team but decide to go PT or loan signings

We have signed 2 high profile strikers (Reilly and Gallagher) that are probably on a very good wage. Last season we had McIntosh, Bird and Hylton as our main strikers. They were signed on the 1st, 15th and 28th July so right now we have the same amount of strikers as then. 

We have signed an experienced midfielder in Callaghan at this level that is probably on a decent wage. Might not be the most exciting signing but if he is fit and able to play its a better option that Jacobs and Norey at this stage last season.

We have signed 2 young full backs (Bisland and Wilkie) from Full Time teams that look to be technically much better on the ball than your average Part Time full back and are probably on a good wage. Last season we had Steele and Hamilton as our FB options at this stage with Hamilton still out injured. We had only a 3 fit defenders in the team. Currently we have 6. 

We have signed 2 GK's (Hemfrey and McAdams) who are ok signings, Hemfrey having little first team experience is a concern but players must start somewhere. McAdams is somewhat experienced with over 100 games under his belt with 54 in the Championship. Last season we had the very experienced Gaston and a 6th tier journeyman Adams. 

Spalding is probably the only signing that I believe is probably a poor choice but at 18 and on probably a lower wage he is a squad player. Most likely for the League cup and early league games. I can see him going out on loan to gain more experience if other more established or higher profile players come in.

Now we should have done better in this cup. The prizemoney on offer and a chance for a big tie in the next round could have given us a big boost to our finances. But with both strikers being out injured for the first 2 games was unfortunate and made it a difficult task. Yes we could/should have had a 3rd striker in but would that striker have been the right player for the season? Stowe is meant to be an attacking player but he has been very lacklustre in his time with us. 

So now that we are effectively out of the cup then all efforts should rightly be aimed at getting ready for the league season in 2 weeks time. Ideally we can get 2 wins but I wouldn't want to risk players getting injured or panic buying the wrong players in order to hopefully get the desired results. If we can nurse Reilly and/or Gallagher back to fitness then the squad shape will be in a much better position and will be looking to bring in others to complete the squad.

As for defeats on the trot.... Its pointless adding last seasons results to that stat. They have no bearing on this seasons. How far should we go back to determine the win/loss ratio? Over the past 2 years we have won 21 games (7 against teams from lower divisions in the cups) out of a possible 91 games (72 League, 11 League Cup, 3 Scot Cup and 5 Challenge Cup). That is a 23% win ratio. Should we be calling for the board to be sacked and return of season ticket money for overseeing such pitiful returns?

As far as I am concerned all that matters is this seasons results. And at present we have played 2. lost 2.  It could be played 4 and lost 4 and I will not be happy. But our main objective this season is to finish top 4 in the league. Early season results will be crucial and the manager and board know it. If come mid September and we are still utter shite then the board will act with a new manager in place to take us forward.

 

[SimonLichtie]

2 hours ago, lichtiekev said:

If we are writing off this cup as just warm up games and scores don't matter then don't charge £18, 

It's not the individual clubs who set the prices for cup games - it's a joint decision between the clubs playing, so in the SPFL Trust Trophy & the Scottish Cup it's simply the two teams, where as in the League Cup it's agreed between all 5 teams in the group. The standard agreement, I believe, is one of two things - all clubs charge their normal entry price or all clubs charge the same entry price. If no agreement is reached, then I think a club has to charge what they charge for home league games.

[1320Lichtie]

1 hour ago, lichtie23 said:

These folk continually saying they won’t be getting a season ticket until Jim is gone will come running back if we start the league campaign with 5 or 6 wins. 

 

Very true.

 

I am just really annoyed about Saturday, think he has signed pretty well and we had a good solid showing on Tuesday night with plenty of positives
 

Saturday was all set up for him to get some credit in the bank against a let’s face it really average Annan team and it was a total disaster in every sense. 

 

1 minute ago, Lichtielegend said:

I wonder if Scott Stewart as a centre-half is being seen as a long-term thing?

Wilkie and Bisland don't seem particularly attacking full-backs so playing them in a back 5 and using our best winger as a one of the centre-backs doesn't seem like something you would do unless it is part of a longer term plan.

 

 

 

I really really really hope not. I hope it was because Stewart had a good game against Dundee and because we do not have any strikers, also think he maybe stuck with it because he was putting Spalding in from the start and it would give him a wee bit extra security behind him. 
 

Was looking at Quitongo thinking Stewart was about twice the size of the guy and he was there for the taking with Stewart’s powerful running. I like the 2 young full backs they’ve got plenty of legs and get stuck in but like you say they don’t particularly stand out in an attacking sense. 

[Smokerson]

With our reported finances and budget being as healthy as they are I think its an utter joke the amount of fit and available players we have. I don't care what other teams are doing, injuries should always be factored in and there's no way we should be so thin on the ground. 

[Skyline Drifter]

20 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

It's not the individual clubs who set the prices for cup games - it's a joint decision between the clubs playing, so in the SPFL Trust Trophy & the Scottish Cup it's simply the two teams, where as in the League Cup it's agreed between all 5 teams in the group. The standard agreement, I believe, is one of two things - all clubs charge their normal entry price or all clubs charge the same entry price. If no agreement is reached, then I think a club has to charge what they charge for home league games.

Yeah, that's not accurate.

Whilst a number of groups over the years have seen the teams involved agree a standard policy across the group for convenience / PR, there's absolutely no requirement for it. In the League Cup group matches it's up to the Home club to set the gate price for each game as they see fit subject to Minimum Pricing set by the SPFL. For this season minimum pricing is £12 Adults and £6 Senior Citizens & Under 16's. If anyone wants to charge less than that they need to agree it with the opposition (for that one game, not all the other teams in the group). If they want to charge more than that they basically can. They don't need to agree it with anyone at all.

The minimum charge for subsequent rounds depends on what division the home team plays in.

Clubs will generally agree pricing but they don't have to. Home team basically holds all the aces in this competition.

[1320Lichtie]

13 minutes ago, Smokerson said:

With our reported finances and budget being as healthy as they are I think it’s an utter joke the amount of fit and available players we have. I don't care what other teams are doing, injuries should always be factored in and there's no way we should be so thin on the ground. 

We have 18 at the moment

Last year we had 18 at this time

Year before we had 18 at this time 

Year before that we had 17

 

I get the frustration but it is pretty normal, it’s just the fact that both the injuries we do have are in the same position. 

 

 

 

 

[RedLichtie86]

8 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

We have 18 at the moment

Last year we had 18 at this time

Year before we had 18 at this time 

Year before that we had 17

 

I get the frustration but it is pretty normal, it’s just the fact that both the injuries we do have are in the same position. 

 

 

 

 

But we should have 36 players on the books. Just in case

[timlichtie]

Last 2 seasons the recruitment was a shambles. I was rather naively hoping we might hit the ground running this time. Shows how much I know.

[ExiledLichtie]

1 hour ago, RedLichtie86 said:

A matter of perspective is needed.

We have signed 2 high profile strikers (Reilly and Gallagher) that are probably on a very good wage. Last season we had McIntosh, Bird and Hylton as our main strikers. They were signed on the 1st, 15th and 28th July so right now we have the same amount of strikers as then. 

 

Indeed.  And also some honesty.  This season, as repeatedly stated, the aim was "2 up top", as per the chairman, manager, and the new signings.  So we have two strikers for two slots.  Last season, we generally played 4-2-3-1.  When we played 4-4-2 it was a disaster.  That means we had McIntosh, Bird, Turan, and Hylton for one position.  Now you might be saying "hold on, they weren't our MAIN strikers, they played as part of the three".  That means we also had McKenna, Dow, Stowe etc. as part of that three.  So we had multiple players that could play up front, and multiple players that could play behind.

It isn't *remotely* the same amount of strikers.   If this is perspective, its extremely skewed.

 

17 minutes ago, timlichtie said:

Last 2 seasons the recruitment was a shambles. I was rather naively hoping we might hit the ground running this time. Shows how much I know.

If we only had 10 players in our squad, some of our fans on here would still defend that as absolutely the right decision.  

[RedLichtie86]

4 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Indeed.  And also some honesty.  This season, as repeatedly stated, the aim was "2 up top", as per the chairman, manager, and the new signings.  So we have two strikers for two slots.  Last season, we generally played 4-2-3-1.  When we played 4-4-2 it was a disaster.  That means we had McIntosh, Bird, Turan, and Hylton for one position.  Now you might be saying "hold on, they weren't our MAIN strikers, they played as part of the three".  That means we also had McKenna, Dow, Stowe etc. as part of that three.  So we had multiple players that could play up front, and multiple players that could play behind.

It isn't *remotely* the same amount of strikers.   If this is perspective, its extremely skewed.

 

If we only had 10 players in our squad, some of our fans on here would still defend that as absolutely the right decision.  

Saying he wants to play 4-4-2 doesnt mean we should be going out and signing players for the sake of it just so we can play 4-4-2. With 2 strikers signed we could quite easily play 4-2-3-1, 5-4-1, 4-5-1, 4-3-2-1 with either striker playing up top with the other on the bench. Its about getting the right players in to set the squad up for the season. If we had a player similar to Turan signed for this season I very much doubt we would be happy with that just so he can make up the numbers. Stowe is currently in that boat of is he worth it?

But the fact of the matter is the 2 strikers we have so far signed started preseason, picked up slight injuries at different times and are not playing at the moment but are close to a return. And 6 weeks (plus 4 more for loans) of the transfer window are left to make further signings to improve the squad.

[Hayshead2]

6 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Yeah absolutely would not want to see any of them out long term due to being rushed back. They can’t be too far away. Gallagher has a calf strain which is a nuisance but not overly serious and Reilly had a groin strain and was supposedly back training last Thursday. I heard on Tuesday night that the Bonnyrigg game was the target for him to return. 
 

4 or 5 weeks seems a long way away too though a plan is going to be required on how we get through that period with what we have got. 
 

Was there any information on Hammy in the Courier article @timlichtie

 

Also after coming away on Saturday night I thought to myself that we’d maybe struggle to shift the extra 150 season tickets to get up to the 1k target after thinking we’d easily get well above it just in the middle of last week. Really really annoyed with what happened on Saturday - not good enough 

My thoughts exactly. I know it's ONLY the league cup. But it was a bit of an eye opener. I honestly think we are in trouble.

[Smokerson]

2 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

We have 18 at the moment

Last year we had 18 at this time

Year before we had 18 at this time 

Year before that we had 17

 

I get the frustration but it is pretty normal, it’s just the fact that both the injuries we do have are in the same position. 

 

 

 

 

Didn't realise that at all, I just cant recall us going into competitive games with 3 or 4 subs. As well as its risking fatigue and injury its also not good not having competition for places. It feels a bit unprofessional.

Just had a look there and Alloa, Kelty and Cove all had 7 subs on Saturday. Whether they are all competitive players good enough to play I wouldn't know but these are the teams we are going to be competing against.

[SimonLichtie]

3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Yeah, that's not accurate.

Whilst a number of groups over the years have seen the teams involved agree a standard policy across the group for convenience / PR, there's absolutely no requirement for it. In the League Cup group matches it's up to the Home club to set the gate price for each game as they see fit subject to Minimum Pricing set by the SPFL. For this season minimum pricing is £12 Adults and £6 Senior Citizens & Under 16's. If anyone wants to charge less than that they need to agree it with the opposition (for that one game, not all the other teams in the group). If they want to charge more than that they basically can. They don't need to agree it with anyone at all.

The minimum charge for subsequent rounds depends on what division the home team plays in.

Clubs will generally agree pricing but they don't have to. Home team basically holds all the aces in this competition.

Interesting - different to what I'd previously been told and to what a lot of clubs seem to have insinuated (PR, as you say) - thanks for the reply.

[Skyline Drifter]

3 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

Interesting - different to what I'd previously been told and to what a lot of clubs seem to have insinuated (PR, as you say) - thanks for the reply.

Rules have changed a little over the years, and what you said remains accurate generally for the one off ties in the other cups.

There's never been any requirement to set a group wide arrangement for the league cup though in the way you implied.

Edited July 22 by Skyline Drifter

[SimonLichtie]

Ultimately if we signed three players tomorrow who were absolutely bang average, McIntyre would be absolutely slaughtered.

If we wait until better players are available in a month, McIntyre gets slaughtered.

The only way he can 'win' is if he signs good enough quality players in the next week - players that aren't available and do not exist.

[RedLichtie86]

14 minutes ago, Smokerson said:

Didn't realise that at all, I just cant recall us going into competitive games with 3 or 4 subs. As well as its risking fatigue and injury its also not good not having competition for places. It feels a bit unprofessional.

Just had a look there and Alloa, Kelty and Cove all had 7 subs on Saturday. Whether they are all competitive players good enough to play I wouldn't know but these are the teams we are going to be competing against.

If Reilly and Gallagher were fit we would have had 7 subs too.

And when we have a few more players in we will at times have 7 subs plus 2 or 3 in the stands.

[1320Lichtie]

10 minutes ago, Smokerson said:

Didn't realise that at all, I just cant recall us going into competitive games with 3 or 4 subs. As well as its risking fatigue and injury its also not good not having competition for places. It feels a bit unprofessional.

Just had a look there and Alloa, Kelty and Cove all had 7 subs on Saturday. Whether they are all competitive players good enough to play I wouldn't know but these are the teams we are going to be competing against.

I cannot answer whether or not they have any injuries but that’s what we would have been sitting at too without our striking duo missing out. We had 5 subs on Saturday. 
 

Losing another player to injury, hopefully not a serious one - plus getting a red card - means that from a squad of 18 we might already be down to 14 players for tomorrow’s game - which despite what anyone says - after 2 competitive games to have 3 players injured and a player suspended - is really pretty unfortunate circumstances. 
 

Injuries aside we should not be getting beat 3-0 at home by that Annan team ( Annan only had 4 subs by the way ) - that’s on McIntyre with the way we set up and started that game and with how we managed the game after going a man and goal down. 
 

 

[relichtie]

All this talk of waiting for possible loanees is pie in the sky imo. When we were in the championship we could look to get quality players in eg Noubs, J Hamilton, Wighton etc, but I can't see players of this quality dropping to League 1. The attraction for us was that we got a certain amount of TV coverage on Friday evenings, and that was a chance for our loanees to put themselves in the "shop window". That is definitely not the case in Lg 1. 

Far better to have had cover for our unfit strikers, than ask players like Dow to take on a completely alien role as a striker. Had we some sort of youth policy in place, then  someone from there could plug the gaps until the strikers were fit. An untried youth striker is surely a better option than a midfielder unused to the role.