johnnydun Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 I will not be happy if we let any of the youngsters, especially Cameron, go for nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon gilmore Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 9 minutes ago, johnnydun said: I will not be happy if we let any of the youngsters, especially Cameron, go for nothing. I know it’s not enough , but if any of the young squad go , they we will get at a 6 figure fee in compensation, not nearly good enough but it’s not free 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, Vernon gilmore said: I know it’s not enough , but if any of the young squad go , they we will get at a 6 figure fee in compensation, not nearly good enough but it’s not free Yes, of course, you're right. I just thought the whole point in the WGS youth setup was to develop these youngsters into regular first team players, that we could then find success as a club or sell them on for profit. Not let them go at the first opportunity, when they are nowhere near their peak. And some have clear potential, especially Cameron. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pens_Dark Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 23 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Yes, of course, you're right. I just thought the whole point in the WGS youth setup was to develop these youngsters into regular first team players, that we could then find success as a club or sell them on for profit. Not let them go at the first opportunity, when they are nowhere near their peak. And some have clear potential, especially Cameron. It would be very typical of Dundee to finally have a good crop of youth players come through and lose them for peanuts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 The compensation is only significant provided the club have actually offered the players in question a contract. Given the total absence of any news on that front, I wouldn't get my hopes up for 'six figure' fees. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDee1893 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 hour ago, johnnydun said: Yes, of course, you're right. I just thought the whole point in the WGS youth setup was to develop these youngsters into regular first team players, that we could then find success as a club or sell them on for profit. Not let them go at the first opportunity, when they are nowhere near their peak. And some have clear potential, especially Cameron. The rumour is that Cameron has been offered a 3 year deal which he has rejected so far as he feels he's worth more than what's being offered. Also heard Mulligan is off to Hearts but again it's a rumour albeit a decent source. If other clubs offer our out of contract players a lot more money than on offer at Dens then you can understand why they would move. I just hope the club isn't trying to keep them on the cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon gilmore Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 17 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: The compensation is only significant provided the club have actually offered the players in question a contract. Given the total absence of any news on that front, I wouldn't get my hopes up for 'six figure' fees. They have offered them all a new contract and they have registered this offer with the SFA so we will definitely get full compensation if the worst happens and they move on 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Maybe it's the malaise from Tuesday hanging over me, but I genuinely couldn't care less about any of our players being signed up for next season including the so called promising youth players. Only Cameron has really proven he could be an asset to the team but if he thinks he could earn a buck or two more at this crucial development stage of his career, all the best to him. Genuinely looking forward to the complete clear out and if that means we take a sore one or two in the process then so be it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: Maybe it's the malaise from Tuesday hanging over me, but I genuinely couldn't care less about any of our players being signed up for next season including the so called promising youth players. Only Cameron has really proven he could be an asset to the team but if he thinks he could earn a buck or two more at this crucial development stage of his career, all the best to him. Genuinely looking forward to the complete clear out and if that means we take a sore one or two in the process then so be it. Dunno like, apart from maybe French and Robinson, I'm hardly blown away by Bowyer's incoming players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Vernon gilmore said: They have offered them all a new contract and they have registered this offer with the SFA so we will definitely get full compensation if the worst happens and they move on That's good to hear. 3 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: Maybe it's the malaise from Tuesday hanging over me, but I genuinely couldn't care less about any of our players being signed up for next season including the so called promising youth players. Only Cameron has really proven he could be an asset to the team but if he thinks he could earn a buck or two more at this crucial development stage of his career, all the best to him. Genuinely looking forward to the complete clear out and if that means we take a sore one or two in the process then so be it. I'd definitely keep Cameron and Mulligan, perhaps Sharp and Fisher, but I think it's time Robertson was moved on, and I wouldn't miss Max Anderson either. Anderson looks like another Cammy Kerr, all huff and puff and next to no ability. From the senior players, meh, really isn't any single one of them I'd lose any sleep over. McMullan I suppose should be considered a loss given that he usually produces a fair few assists, but he's frustrating as hell for a number of reasons. First of all, the number of times he gets into great positions and does absolutely nothing with it, including the number of absolute sitters he manages to fluff, the fact he blows hot and cold on both a game-to-game and longer-term basis (although this is common with wingers), and also I still believe he's one of those players that is 'in between' i.e. a stand-out in Championship football, but not quite cut out for Premiership football. The one player I'd like to keep around is Robinson, but then he isn't even a Dundee player anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Dunno like, apart from maybe French and Robinson, I'm hardly blown away by Bowyer's incoming players. I'm at the stage where I'd only keep French, Robinson, Cameron and McMullan although I appreciate others like Mulligan are sellable assets. But even then, only French and Robinson would hurt if they're not here next season! Still give a bit of leeway to Bowyer on his signings based on how 'flexible and creative' he's had to be, but even if our form continued, I'd still have faith in him next season if his signings had been a bit more inspiring. If Bowyer gets us up, he's in charge of a full clear out (even via play-offs) and if he doesn't, then someone else gets the blank canvas. Edited March 2, 2023 by Ludo*1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pens_Dark Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 26 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Dunno like, apart from maybe French and Robinson, I'm hardly blown away by Bowyer's incoming players. I'm still of the opinion that he's working on a tight budget which limits the type and quality of player he's looking for. You are right though a lot of them have left a lot to be desired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pens_Dark Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 50 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: Maybe it's the malaise from Tuesday hanging over me, but I genuinely couldn't care less about any of our players being signed up for next season including the so called promising youth players. Only Cameron has really proven he could be an asset to the team but if he thinks he could earn a buck or two more at this crucial development stage of his career, all the best to him. Genuinely looking forward to the complete clear out and if that means we take a sore one or two in the process then so be it. Must admit after Tuesday and the two fixtures previous I am in a fairly defeatist mood. Only 4 points behind but we have missed countless opportunities. That mood, though, has manifested from having to put up with a really bang average squad for a couple of seasons. Like you, I can't actually wait for the clear out because, if nothing else, it feels fucking stale. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said: I'm at the stage where I'd only keep French, Robinson, Cameron and McMullan although I appreciate others like Mulligan are sellable assets. But even then, only French and Robinson would hurt if they're not here next season! Still give a bit of leeway to Bowyer on his signings based on how 'flexible and creative' he's had to be, but even if our form continued, I'd still have faith in him next season if his signings had been a bit more inspiring. If Bowyer gets us up, he's in charge of a full clear out (even via play-offs) and if he doesn't, then someone else gets the blank canvas. I'd happily give Bowyer another season in charge no matter what happens (excepting a total disaster over the next dozen games that sees us slip to 5th or something), because I think it would be totally unfair to fire him after one season in which he's only been given very limited financial backing and had to contend with the absolute tripe that McPake filled the squad with. I understand why there might be a desperation to get promoted this season and avoid a more competitive Championship next, but as things stand I don't think this squad would make a fist of the Premiership next season in any case, so unless he can work miracles with the squad in one summer I think getting promoted would likely just end in Bowyer getting fired next January anyway. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't even bother trying to go up this season, only I don't see it as a disaster if we don't, and if we would accept going up as playoff winners this season then there is no reason why that should be any less acceptable if we finished 2nd to Utd or County or something next season. TBH, I'm more concerned about the state of the squad than I am which league we are playing in. I'd far rather spend two seasons in the Championship building a well-rounded, coherent squad that is mostly players who would be worth keeping around post-promotion, than go up this season, come straight back down because of lack of ability, and continue the yo-yo cycle we've been on for the past 5 years or so. Appreciate there are financial implications though. Edited March 2, 2023 by Boo Khaki 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 35 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: I'd happily give Bowyer another season in charge no matter what happens (excepting a total disaster over the next dozen games that sees us slip to 5th or something), because I think it would be totally unfair to fire him after one season in which he's only been given very limited financial backing and had to contend with the absolute tripe that McPake filled the squad with. I understand why there might be a desperation to get promoted this season and avoid a more competitive Championship next, but as things stand I don't think this squad would make a fist of the Premiership next season in any case, so unless he can work miracles with the squad in one summer I think getting promoted would likely just end in Bowyer getting fired next January anyway. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't even bother trying to go up this season, only I don't see it as a disaster if we don't, and if we would accept going up as playoff winners this season then there is no reason why that should be any less acceptable if we finished 2nd to Utd or County or something next season. TBH, I'm more concerned about the state of the squad than I am which league we are playing in. I'd far rather spend two seasons in the Championship building a well-rounded, coherent squad that is mostly players who would be worth keeping around post-promotion, than go up this season, come straight back down because of lack of ability, and continue the yo-yo cycle we've been on for the past 5 years or so. Appreciate there are financial implications though. I agree with all of that. Well made points throughout but I just think that the majority of the fans would well and truly turn if we don't get up. I reckon there'd be a significant amount of pressure being levied at him as soon as this Saturday if we fail to take 3 points nevermind if we ultimately fail to win the league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Play Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 2 hours ago, Boo Khaki said: …….,TBH, I'm more concerned about the state of the squad than I am which league we are playing in. I'd far rather spend two seasons in the Championship building a well-rounded, coherent squad that is mostly players who would be worth keeping around post-promotion, than go up this season, come straight back down because of lack of ability, and continue the yo-yo cycle we've been on for the past 5 years or so. Appreciate there are financial implications though. I’m not sure how easy that is to do these days for a club our size. If you are in the Championship it’s a real gamble to sign an untested player on a 3 year deal. Sign them on a 1 or a 2 year deal and they’d likely be off at the end of their contract if they were doing well with us so they wouldn’t be around for the top flight season. Signing a player of proven quality for three years costs and I’m not sure Nelms is willing to back any manager to those levels now. Unfortunately the days of keeping a largely unchanged quality squad for several years may already be at and end. On the other hand, as McPake’s tenure has demonstrated it is all too easy to keep a largely unchanged squad of poor quality players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 4 hours ago, Boo Khaki said: I wouldn't miss Max Anderson either. Anderson looks like another Cammy Kerr, all huff and puff and next to no ability. I got slated for saying he was the next Ross Callachan about 12 months ago. Shows how quickly opinions of young players can change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 14 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: I got slated for saying he was the next Ross Callachan about 12 months ago. Shows how quickly opinions of young players can change. To be fair, he's more of a poor man's Mark O'Hara. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifespud Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Players will come and go, and like you Ludo I’m sickened by the whole lot. However such has been the tombola this season, particularly in midfield, I think the young lads have had an uphill battle. IMO Anderson, Mulligan, Sharp, Fisher and Cameron from the current crop are worth another throw of the dice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Youth want to go, there's nothing you can do, not bothered, we'll get compo. Maybe the one we've seen the least of (Fisher) is the best of the lot. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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