Der Panzer Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 15 hours ago, Boo Khaki said: There are 10 other clubs in our league, and as much as our defence got the blame for most of our collapses last season, for me the problem begun with the fact that our midfield routinely got played through and around almost every single time we began dropping deep and trying to protect a lead. Part of that was tactical, we play a narrow midfield that leaves space down the sides and three just can't shuffle quickly enough to cover all that ground, but there was also a total lack of dig and bite that meant the opponents were pretty much up against nothing much more than a line of training cones before they got to our genuine back line of defence. We haven't changed or added anything to that midfield since last season, so unless Doc has spent pre-season installing a plan to cope with that (i.e. getting the team playing comfortably in a 5-4-1 and killing the play further up the pitch) then I worry this season will just be more of the same. Derby is obviously foremost in the mind being first league fixture, but we played some poor teams last season as well and still couldn't hold on to leads when sitting deep against them. I hope TD has realised that keeping 2 up and giving the fullbacks no protection at all got us punished repeatedly last season. It was scandalous how often teams were able to hold the ball deep in our half and pass it the entire breadth of the pitch and back with no Dundee player getting anywhere near it. You can't defend like that. 3CB's dealt with most of the stuff coming in from out wide, but when it's sustained pressure for 20 and 30 minutes, it's inevitable there will be a mistake, a missed header, or just a great ball in that isn't cleared. Sorry - I was only mentioning the derby - 100% agree on the rest of the season - but for Utd I don’t think we need to complicate it - get our better ball players on the park and let Sylla dominate the midfield they won’t be able to live with McCowan, Cameron, Tiff, Murray and Main can batter them into submission at some point too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee jeemie Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I won’t be going to the derby at they prices , United can stick it up erse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoP Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Season sales undermining the Docs work perhaps? Ive never lived in Dundee so never had one Half dozen games a season about my norm But I do think a bit of minor glamour required to entice more people in. a couple of cup runs desperately required as well as a decent league season Then progress towards the new stadium Could be a long slow project rebuilding the fanbase Requires a lot of ifs and maybes to keep happening It’s not like we’re not due some luck at the club 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 36 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said: Would that suggest something happening with McCowan or Cameron? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 14 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Would that suggest something happening with McCowan or Cameron? There's not been any public interest in either player so who knows? McCowan's been our captain of late and the rumour is he's knocked back 2 offers from us already but equally he's made it public he wants to stay. That could obviously change when an agent gets in his ear though. As for Cameron, I can't see us making substantially more than we would a compensation fee next season. We need at least one other midfielder since we've lost Malachi Boateng and we had Alex Rodriguez Gorrin on trial and would be more suited to have another midfield destroyer like Sylla. In short, no idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 4 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: There's not been any public interest in either player so who knows? McCowan's been our captain of late and the rumour is he's knocked back 2 offers from us already but equally he's made it public he wants to stay. That could obviously change when an agent gets in his ear though. As for Cameron, I can't see us making substantially more than we would a compensation fee next season. We need at least one other midfielder since we've lost Malachi Boateng and we had Alex Rodriguez Gorrin on trial and would be more suited to have another midfield destroyer like Sylla. In short, no idea. Aye he just kind of seems like he'd be playing the same sort of role as those two, but also be signing to be first choice while being no better, so it wouldn't make much sense for anyone? Although actually reading it sees it as an uncredited source, so theres a decent chance his agent is just chucking a rumour out to get his name visible in Scottish football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebles_Dee Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Sylla I reckon wants to cover the centre by himself but he perhaps wants more capable defensive cover ahead of him. It’s personal preference for players on what side and who they want next to them. He’d offer something different to what we have. Fraser can play LWB as well so he can cover a few positions. There’s rumours we are still after Beck or we may get a loan for LWB. Say we get Beck on loan and he leaves in the January we would still then have Fraser, Reilly and Robertson who can play LWB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoP Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I really can’t see Beck coming back. If Liverpool see him as a future first team fixture they’ll surely want him put into a higher pressure situation to gauge his progress. Maybe we get lucky and get until January then he goes to the English Championship? Re Cameron and McCowan, I’ve a feeling one will leave this window. If that happens Scott Fraser makes sense, of the two I think Cameron has the higher ceiling, but Luke is definitely way more influential to the team currently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifespud Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 36 minutes ago, MarkoP said: I really can’t see Beck coming back. If Liverpool see him as a future first team fixture they’ll surely want him put into a higher pressure situation to gauge his progress. Maybe we get lucky and get until January then he goes to the English Championship? Re Cameron and McCowan, I’ve a feeling one will leave this window. If that happens Scott Fraser makes sense, of the two I think Cameron has the higher ceiling, but Luke is definitely way more influential to the team currently. I totally agree with most of that. We defo do need another DM, though as it stands after Luke, Cameron and Sylla we only really have Mulligan - that most of us actually rate to actually change a game. Therefore we probs need a Fraser type too, although a loan who doesn’t expect to be a first pick, might be a better option. Obvs a genuine LWB also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We8Arabs Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Good Evening guys, New poster here, been looking on the site for many years but never get involved. Really looking forward to the new season and some of the players we are linked with, in regards to the Scott Fraser one I'd be interested to see how much of an interest we really have in him as a club, Because only at the weekend I was told from a Dabbie Dab that is pretty close to the ins and outs at tannadump, that they were hoping to get the deal for hom over the line before the season opener in 2 weeks time, And he was convinced that the deal was almost done. He's been right on majority of things with current signings etc. But I'm Interested that the record claim we are in for him, Unless Luke or Lyle are refusing to sign new contracts and the club are actively looking to move them on then Fraser will command a decent wage, a wage I'm not sure we would be silly enough to splash on him. As for the Owen Beck link, that seems pie on the sky to me and people putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 100. Beck will leave on loan probably but most definitely not back to dens 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoP Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 20 minutes ago, We8Arabs said: Good Evening guys, New poster here, been looking on the site for many years but never get involved. Really looking forward to the new season and some of the players we are linked with, in regards to the Scott Fraser one I'd be interested to see how much of an interest we really have in him as a club, Because only at the weekend I was told from a Dabbie Dab that is pretty close to the ins and outs at tannadump, that they were hoping to get the deal for hom over the line before the season opener in 2 weeks time, And he was convinced that the deal was almost done. He's been right on majority of things with current signings etc. But I'm Interested that the record claim we are in for him, Unless Luke or Lyle are refusing to sign new contracts and the club are actively looking to move them on then Fraser will command a decent wage, a wage I'm not sure we would be silly enough to splash on him. As for the Owen Beck link, that seems pie on the sky to me and people putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 100. Beck will leave on loan probably but most definitely not back to dens I need to ask . . . . How many did you eat? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We8Arabs Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 26 minutes ago, MarkoP said: I need to ask . . . . How many did you eat? Just a few Fella just a few 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Marsh Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Genuinely had no idea Scott Fraser was a Dundee fan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Genuinely can't see Beck back at Dens for a number of reasons. Pie in the sky. 1. He's already capable of playing at a higher level than the Scots Premier. Loaning him back here would serve no purpose when he could be loaned to the English Championship, Premiership, or a higher quality league abroad. 2. He's clearly not all that far away from the Liverpool 1st team in any case, so loaning him here means that in the event the same thing happens as last season and he needs recalled to cover LB, Liverpool would again be in the same position as last time whereby if he sets foot on the pitch for the 1sts he's then tied to either wasting 6 months in their u-23 team, or wasting 6 more months at Dens. I think Cameron will be here until January at least, because there appears to be no serious interest in him from outside clubs, but even in the event he does move on then I think he can be reasonably easily replaced if you consider that he's a very lop-sided player who offers a lot going forward but nothing much without the ball. We might not be able to easily find a player who offers quite the same threat, but we shouldn't have too much difficulty finding one with a far more rounded game who contributes more to the team overall. TBH, if a team comes in with a reasonable offer I'd be driving him to the train station, because I think we're already getting as much out of him as any club ever will. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) 23 hours ago, Der Panzer said: Sorry - I was only mentioning the derby - 100% agree on the rest of the season - but for Utd I don’t think we need to complicate it - get our better ball players on the park and let Sylla dominate the midfield they won’t be able to live with McCowan, Cameron, Tiff, Murray and Main can batter them into submission at some point too. What a wild take this is, neither team's players will be "battering anyone into submission". I think you're overestimating the qualities of your own team first of all and then underestimating United's, it's a 50/50 game that could go either way Edited July 19 by Butters Scotch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We8Arabs Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 11 hours ago, Toby Marsh said: Genuinely had no idea Scott Fraser was a Dundee fan. He's not, he's a united fan, and was a united fan growing up too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 12 hours ago, We8Arabs said: Good Evening guys, New poster here, been looking on the site for many years but never get involved. Really looking forward to the new season and some of the players we are linked with, in regards to the Scott Fraser one I'd be interested to see how much of an interest we really have in him as a club, Because only at the weekend I was told from a Dabbie Dab that is pretty close to the ins and outs at tannadump, that they were hoping to get the deal for hom over the line before the season opener in 2 weeks time, And he was convinced that the deal was almost done. He's been right on majority of things with current signings etc. But I'm Interested that the record claim we are in for him, Unless Luke or Lyle are refusing to sign new contracts and the club are actively looking to move them on then Fraser will command a decent wage, a wage I'm not sure we would be silly enough to splash on him. As for the Owen Beck link, that seems pie on the sky to me and people putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 100. Beck will leave on loan probably but most definitely not back to dens Welcome. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam899 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, Butters Scotch said: What a wild take this is, neither team's players will be "battering anyone into submission". I think you're overestimating the qualities of your own team first of all and then underestimating United's, it's a 50/50 game that could go either way Agreed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D TOTAL Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Must admit I’m with der panzer on this one, will be a route in our favour united team don’t fill me with any form of fear maybe that new Macedonian guy will be decent but he might be all highlight reel and no actual ability 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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