After the vote

[Ando]

Why? Both Yes supporters and No supporters need to understand that if they lose it's because the will of the people of Scotland is for the alternative.

That's democracy. If more people vote Yes than No I will happily accept the result as the will of the people expressed.

What's embarrassing is when you have people trying to make any excuse for the defeat that doesn't involve their side just not being popular enough. Which is in fact what will be the cause of any defeat.

I think there is a difference in voting for change and not getting it, by a baw hair, and voting for no change and actually getting change by a baw hair.

I'm probably repeating myself but if 49% of the country feel so strongly about changing the status quo and are denied that opportunity, when they already feel aggrieved at how the campaign has been fought I think they'll take it much worse than 49% of the country who didn't vote for change but got it anyway.

[bowmore]

Here's another question on the same topic. Do 'yes' voters see 'no' voters as unionists?

[Confidemus]

Here's another question on the same topic. Do 'yes' voters see 'no' voters as unionists?

Yes, in the same way that No voters see us as 'nationalists'.

[Ross.]

Here's another question on the same topic. Do 'yes' voters see 'no' voters as unionists?

No, I see them as British Nationalists.

[bowmore]

Yes, in the same way that No voters see us as 'nationalists'.

Yes, in the same way that No voters see us as 'nationalists'.

I suppose that this what I was getting at. The referendum, for all of it's excitement and potential seems to have split the country in two. I wouldn't imagine that both sides are 100% die hards but both will no doubt have their elements. Regardless of the outcome I can see this causing a shed load of animosity. People proove time and time again how polarized they can become over lots of things but nothing more than affairs of the heart.

[FrontPage]

If its a no vote, the new devolution agreement will be rushed through as quickly as possible, while half the country who would otherwise be shouting for max powers are totally tuned out of politics.

I can also see a wave of voters moving to the right whichever way the vote ends up.

[H_B]

You would be correct if it was a level playing field with equal media coverage, it isn't though.

And equal social media coverage?

Are you upset about the likes of NewsNat and Wings Over Scotland? Doesn't WoS claim that it's biased agenda-driven blog, often factually inaccurate, reaches hundreds of thousands of viewers?

Is that fair? Let me go out on a limb here by guessing "that's different"?

[Pull My Strings]

Here's another question on the same topic. Do 'yes' voters see 'no' voters as unionists?

Some are unionists but I think more are conservatives (small 'c'). Change is scary, big change is very scary and Independence would see a lot of big changes. None of the No voters that I know are unionist. Not a single one. None are philosophically opposed to independence but are worried about their pensions, the currency (sheesh), jobs, etc. and are emasculated by the Scottish cringe.

[H_B]

I'm probably repeating myself but if 49% of the country feel so strongly about changing the status quo and are denied that opportunity, when they already feel aggrieved at how the campaign has been fought I think they'll take it much worse than 49% of the country who didn't vote for change but got it anyway.

Yes I can understand that. The childish toys out of the pram behaviour of many in the Yes camp on here would certainly lead someone towards tha conclusion that their rage-filled tear-stained response to a No vote would be much worse than the more calm No voters' response to a Yes vote.

[Anonapersona]

And equal social media coverage?

Are you upset about the likes of NewsNat and Wings Over Scotland? Doesn't WoS claim that it's biased agenda-driven blog, often factually inaccurate, reaches hundreds of thousands of viewers?

Is that fair? Let me go out on a limb here by guessing "that's different"?

Are you comparing social media to corporate media? Wtf is the matter with you?

[H_B]

I can see this causing a shed load of animosity.

To quote Adam Carolla, this is the "Chevy Chase Rule". i.e. are famous people who are arseholes just people who would have likely been arseholes even if they worked in a car wash.

Idiots who take a referendum result badly are the kind of seething messes that have no sense of perspective on anything.

Normal people will shrug their shoulders regardless of the result. Only morons will become hate-filled rage-machines and indeed it's because they probably were anyway. The kind of people who likes to find excuses for their own shit life.

[Pull My Strings]

And equal social media coverage?

Are you upset about the likes of NewsNat and Wings Over Scotland? Doesn't WoS claim that it's biased agenda-driven blog, often factually inaccurate, reaches hundreds of thousands of viewers?

Is that fair? Let me go out on a limb here by guessing "that's different"?

Of course they are different. Social media is driven by the power of each individual participant whereas broadcast media disproportionately reflects the views of a very limited number of individuals (and is generally much more likely to reflect the view of the establishment).

In this case the broadcast media are largely based in England and reflect the view of the English establishment (British establishment if you wish). That's fine for a UK wide debate but this isn't, or shouldn't be a UK wide debate. Here in Scotland disproportionate coverage is being given to the English/British establishment. That's a problem for a campaign which is essentially anti-establishment.

I don't claim that the media are biased, incidentally, at least not deliberately but they are portraying a Scottish debate through the prism of Westminster politics.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

A Yes vote will see Scottish politics for the next few years dominated by negotiations about the terms of the deal. If for example we end up keeping trident in order to have a currency union you can expect the SNP to be split right down the middle. Given that almost half the voters will have said No in the first place you can expect the end product to end up more like Devo Max that was originally envisaged.

A No Vote isn't going to make the issue go away anything short of a complete humiliation in the referendum will make a rematch 5-15 years down the line inevitable. With No voters liable to die off in greater numbers over the next few years they're probably going to lose that one.
In the meantime expect the Scottish Government to forget about the alternative "Extra Powers" that were promised at the last minute and with Westminster's first past the post voting system a swing to the SNP at the next UK election could cause a landslide in the number of SNP MPs. If the SNP end up holding the balance of power then that could get very interesting.

[Granny Danger]

A Yes vote will see Scottish politics for the next few years dominated by negotiations about the terms of the deal. If for example we end up keeping trident in order to have a currency union you can expect the SNP to be split right down the middle. Given that almost half the voters will have said No in the first place you can expect the end product to end up more like Devo Max that was originally envisaged.

A No Vote isn't going to make the issue go away anything short of a complete humiliation in the referendum will make a rematch 5-15 years down the line inevitable. With No voters liable to die off in greater numbers over the next few years they're probably going to lose that one.

In the meantime expect the Scottish Government to forget about the alternative "Extra Powers" that were promised at the last minute and with Westminster's first past the post voting system a swing to the SNP at the next UK election could cause a landslide in the number of SNP MPs. If the SNP end up holding the balance of power then that could get very interesting.

Christ I bet you don't get invited to many parties.

[H_B]

Of course they are different. Social media is driven by the power of each individual participant whereas broadcast media disproportionately reflects the views of a very limited number of individuals (and is generally much more likely to reflect the view of the establishment).

Sorry, what?

'Rev' Campbell influences thousands with his drivel. Look at how much of it has been cut and pasted on here as 'da troof'.

I find it amusing that idiots take the garbage on WoS as fact and it influences their vote. They are the types (as those who are influenced by the Daily Record also) who it would be ideal if the vote could be removed from.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

And equal social media coverage?

Are you upset about the likes of NewsNat and Wings Over Scotland? Doesn't WoS claim that it's biased agenda-driven blog, often factually inaccurate, reaches hundreds of thousands of viewers?

Is that fair? Let me go out on a limb here by guessing "that's different"?

^^^ Point about people like him not having access to social media, delivered through social media

[bowmore]

Some are unionists but I think more are conservatives (small 'c'). Change is scary, big change is very scary and Independence would see a lot of big changes. None of the No voters that I know are unionist. Not a single one. None are philosophically opposed to independence but are worried about their pensions, the currency (sheesh), jobs, etc. and are emasculated by the Scottish cringe.

I really can't see any way at all that there would be any sort of currency union though.

I don't want to sound inflammatory but the pound is the UK currency. Imagine if this was Wales looking to leave the UK but wanting to keep the pound whilst being able to borrow and spend with it's own distinct strategy. Your and my pensions and pockets would be directly linked to the succes of this new Wales. I mention in the other thread about the banks relocating registrations to London to remain under the security of the pound. I'd be more inclined to listen to Westminster and the bank of England than any campaign spin on the matter, as the gov have a duty to it's citizens. I could see sterligisation/a manx type pound or even the euro.

I want the best for you all but if you go I don't want my mortgage, income pensions etc to be linked to the project.

[Tamdunk]

I see no voters as rangers fans.

[Granny Danger]

I see no voters as rangers fans.

I love to have a go of fans of The Rangers, but in fairness there will a fair few of them who will vote YES.

[bowmore]

To quote Adam Carolla, this is the "Chevy Chase Rule". i.e. are famous people who are arseholes just people who would have likely been arseholes even if they worked in a car wash.

Idiots who take a referendum result badly are the kind of seething messes that have no sense of perspective on anything.

Normal people will shrug their shoulders regardless of the result. Only morons will become hate-filled rage-machines and indeed it's because they probably were anyway. The kind of people who likes to find excuses for their own shit life.

Agreed, though history and the present are littered with all three. No doubt tomorrow will be too